An0n0m0us

Do you really believe there are non Israeli troops on the frontline who have travelled from abroad? I don't think the IDF would take too kindly to anyone getting in their way of destroying Gaza even if they were on the same side.

Shaid

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...n-t-alone.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28609351

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07...join-gaza-war/

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...f-9634260.html

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/...t-israel/18448

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/nov/23/israel

That'll do for now. No better than those fighting for the ISIS.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

http://www.5pillarz.com/2014/08/01/i...ce-is-british/

Carnut

It is difficult to take any side when there is so much evil coming from both sides but.............iam with you Shaid.

tony de wonderful

Don't be a demagogue.

tony de wonderful

Firing rockets and kidnapping IDF soldiers is an act of war, wearing a short skirt isn't.

An0n0m0us

They have joined the Israeli army, a nations legitimate military force so how on Earth can you possibly compare that to people joining a terrorist group such as ISIS? Your views are so skewed it is worrying you can't differentiate between such clear cut differences.

I am on the side of the Palestinians (not Hamas) and detest everything about Israel and it's policy on Palestine but at least I can still see the difference between day and night and not be so totally blinded by hatred that it clouds my judgement.

An0n0m0us

That site explains your mentality perfectly

If you hold such extremist views and that is the type of sites you regularly use time you had a visit from the police. The comments just prove the type of fruitcakes that hang on it's every word.

SN has it's own Muslim extremists, who would have guessed.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

If it did you could hardly be surprised given the fact that half the posters on here have swallowed everything they read in The Daily Mail and it's ilk and have just about branded all Muslims as bad news.... It's no wonder some of the Muslim youth in the UK are turning to jihad!

RA Dunk

Demagogue? seriously just WTF? Why do you insist on using words no ****** understands?

neil-h

Because he doesn't either.

Shaid

Lol... You're funny

But accurate

Shaid

The Taliban were a nations legitimate etc at one point. I must also remind you that Hamas are Palestines legitimate government as well.

When a nation carry out psychological warfare, it's citizens hold rallies and sing 'there's no school tomorrow, your children are dead' the racism rallies against blacks, I could go on but anyway.... Hence no better than ISIS other than better funded, more organised and much better PR.

SJ_Skyline

It's to make him sound more photosynthesis

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Why don't you post under your real username?

An0n0m0us

No the Taliban weren't a legitimate national Government. They were self appointed through fear and terror and not recognised by the international community as being the official government of Afghanistan and they certainly weren't bound by international law/treaties.

So once again they can't be compared to Israel. The biggest issue is that Israel is bound by international law but are still getting away with war crimes and this is what needs to be addressed. Bombing of United Nations compounds including schools needs to be dealt with yet no one seems to have the ***** to stand up and punish Israel for such acts. It questions the authority of the United Nations and the international courts.

Both Hamas and Israel are responsible for crimes on both sides and neither has the moral high ground over the other. The only people to be paying for that is the innocent Palestinians who are caught in the middle and dying in their hundreds on a daily basis. All that is doing is creating more backing for Hamas as families and communities are blown away by Israeli shelling.

An0n0m0us

This is my only username so you are barking up the wrong tree.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

That's very intuitive of you Maz, I thought I was the only one that had clicked.

Shaid

You make some valid points so kudos due where it is due.

Let's just agree I disagree.

An0n0m0us

Shaid that's fair enough, I never once suggested you must agree with me, i'm just putting across my point of view as you do yours. There are some points where we aren't a million miles apart.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I agree with a lot of your points but doesn't Israel's failure to observe international law and the Geneva Convention undermine their legitimacy on the world stage? The failure to adhere to rules of engagement as ratified by the international community renders them no better than Hamas, ISIS et al. In fact some may argue it makes them worse as they are committing the same atrocities as those they decry on a superior morality basis.
As Gerald Kaufman stated they are not just war criminals but also fools. Israel is engaging in a massacre ( that is what it is, the fourth largest military on the earth vs a rag tag army using rudimentary weapons). Their motives and actions will increasingly alienate them and create instability globally. The US will eventually have to sever the financial umbilical cord and leave Israel to it's own devices. The US will not risk bankruptcy, it's foreign policy dictated largely by the Zionist lobby within and Israel, sees it engaging on several fronts in the Middle East.
Coupled with the billions it gives to Israel, I predict huge financial implications in the next decade. Spending nigh on a trillion dollars annually on defence is not sustainable.
Going full circle to my original point, I would say anyone holding the view that Israel qualifies as a legitimate state and having the right to self determination cannot ignore it's indiscretions. Also that view is now largely a moot point.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

So MPs here are now starting to look at the defence contracts the UK has with Israel saying they should be suspended until the extent of their use in Gaza is known as one of the terms of the contracts is that the weapons may not be used on civilians!

Let's hope that happens, but given the nature of our politicians I doubt it will even though it should!

An0n0m0us

Maz I agree with all that except it undermining Israel's legitimacy. That can't be argued as they are a World wide recognised state with an elected and democratic Government. That doesn't mean it's OK for Israel to do what it's doing though, it means it's legitimacy makes it worse that it is dong these things as you suggested could be the case. This is why it needs to be brought to account for what it has done, this for me is where the real test lies. Will anyone do anything about it? The US won't meaning none of it's allies will either so it's down to the UN and they seem to have not got any ***** for this fight. The international community cannot stand back and let a member of the UN flout international law without punishment. It makes a mockery of the UN and what it stands for.

I read today the UK Government is looking into reports some of the Israeli weaponry being used contains British made components and if it's the case that export line will be stopped. For me that's just a weak attempt at placating the growing anti Israel sentiment in the UK. The fact is the UK Government won't shout loudly at what Israel is dong because they won't risk upsetting the US Government. The Jewish lobby know full well if they have influence over US politics they have control over most if not all Western Governments who simply follow the US's stance on anything to do with any conflict globally.

What has got to change initially before anything can improve is the outrageous influence over US politics the Jewish lobby has. That sadly is not something that is going to happen any time soon.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Maz

iTrader: (34)

It's all one big mess! The US is in a very precarious position and given the UK's propensity to 'stand shoulder to shoulder' we are also in a difficult position. Israel is shooting itself in the foot in the long run, the continued violation of laws and unbending attitude means those who it considers allies will eventually have to distance themselves. This is ultimately going to weaken Europe and the US as there will not be consensus on what action should be taken. This will fall perfectly in to the hands of North Korea, Russia and perhaps even China. We need decisive action from the government in the form of sanction and cessation of weapon supply. It's a classic case of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

SJ_Skyline

Totally agree, they should also look at what the hundreds of millions in aid given to the Palestinians was spent on.

An0n0m0us

Yep, couldn't agree more. Unfortunately Israel gives the impression it couldn't give two hoots if it loses US backing although eventually it will run out of weapons and then they will have to care.

There has also been an eery silence from Iran over the current conflict which leaves you wondering what are they thinking. The current leadership does seem a lot more moderate compared to the previous lunatic who was in charge but there are still plenty of hardliners in the Iranian leadership who must be itching to rattle their sabres at Israel. However they also seem tied up with events in Syria and Iraq with them being anti ISIS and pro Shia so perhaps they are now less worried about supporting Hamas and more focused on stopping the advancement of ISIS.

Something still nags at the back of the mind wondering just how ISIS were allowed to get so big and so powerful so quickly bearing in mind the intense monitoring by the US of that region. Initially before they officially became ISIS the anti Asad rebels were being backed by the West and ISIS was born from that rebellion. Isn't it lucky for Israel that Iran and Syria are preoccupied with ISIS whilst they go about their systematic destruction of Palestine? I'm not one for conspiracies but you could be forgiven for thinking it all seems a bit of a coincidence.

tony de wonderful

Hyperbole much?

Israel critics do have some valid points, but when they resort to demagoguery they only harm the very cause they so proudly espouse.

Shaid

I agree plus the aid that is sent to Africa but that's another thread.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

In the case of Israel, demagoguery isn't required. They're doing a pretty good job themselves, but you know that anyway. Your counter argument is weak and without basis. All the evidence suggests Israel is destroying Palestine, much to it's own detriment as well as the Palestinians.