European elections on 22nd
21 May 2014, 09:08 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Martin2005
So Mr Farage, Clegg, Cameron and Milliband - dispense with the ideological claptrap and have a 'proper debate'
While ever you have the likes of Clegg telling us that if we leave it will cost the UK x million jobs, yet refusing to say why, how ,or where, how can it be discussed rationally?
If you talk to 99% of UK people, they still believe that a) Mrs Thatcher negotiated us a rebate, and, b) Tony Blair signed it away.
Both true....but FAR from the whole story.......
21 May 2014, 09:16 AM
#32
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Ultimately our decision on the EU will (or at should) be about the balance of risk and reward for either staying in or leaving the EU.
I find both the UKIP and Lib-Dem postitions on the EU equally misleading as they only appear to want to present one side of the argument - it's either all terrible, or all fantastic - both these positions are ideological and of little use to people wanting the facts.
How Farage can present the case for leaving the EU as without even acknowledging the risks, means he isn't really interested in 'having a proper debate' - something he keeps claiming to want.
One day soon, we will be made to make a big decision on this issue, let's do it with our eyes open, with a clear view of both the upsides and downsides to staying in or leaving.
So Mr Farage, Clegg, Cameron and Milliband - dispense with the ideological claptrap and have a 'proper debate'
I find both the UKIP and Lib-Dem postitions on the EU equally misleading as they only appear to want to present one side of the argument - it's either all terrible, or all fantastic - both these positions are ideological and of little use to people wanting the facts.
How Farage can present the case for leaving the EU as without even acknowledging the risks, means he isn't really interested in 'having a proper debate' - something he keeps claiming to want.
One day soon, we will be made to make a big decision on this issue, let's do it with our eyes open, with a clear view of both the upsides and downsides to staying in or leaving.
So Mr Farage, Clegg, Cameron and Milliband - dispense with the ideological claptrap and have a 'proper debate'
21 May 2014, 09:29 AM
#33
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Not true, Farage is up for any debate on the issue! I think you'll find it's the Tories (your party of choice as you revealed the other day) that have refused to debate the issue with him. Clegg is the only one who has stood toe to toe with im and came away with his tail firmly between his legs!
21 May 2014, 09:35 AM
#34
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Never going to happen. Nor are we ever likely to see a referendum on it.
While ever you have the likes of Clegg telling us that if we leave it will cost the UK x million jobs, yet refusing to say why, how ,or where, how can it be discussed rationally?
If you talk to 99% of UK people, they still believe that a) Mrs Thatcher negotiated us a rebate, and, b) Tony Blair signed it away.
Both true....but FAR from the whole story.......
While ever you have the likes of Clegg telling us that if we leave it will cost the UK x million jobs, yet refusing to say why, how ,or where, how can it be discussed rationally?
If you talk to 99% of UK people, they still believe that a) Mrs Thatcher negotiated us a rebate, and, b) Tony Blair signed it away.
Both true....but FAR from the whole story.......
21 May 2014, 09:40 AM
#35
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The fact they won't do it says a lot more about them than it does UKIP!
BTW you are sounding increasngly desparate in your put downs of Farage, infact you sound more Tory with every post
21 May 2014, 09:54 AM
#36
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If we use the Clegg v Farage debates as an example; what we had was 2 ideaologues screaming from the rooftops, which generated a lot of heat but not very much light. This is a highly nuanced issue, the detail was the first casualty in that debate
21 May 2014, 10:18 AM
#37
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That's Clegg for you, he doesn't do detail as he has no depth to his thinking! Sadly that sort of debate tends to drag everyone down to the lowest level! Not Farage's fault to be fair!
21 May 2014, 11:02 AM
#38
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I've read a lot of your post and agree with what you say,you hit the nail on the head as they say. I would how ever like to ask, do you not think that the Tory's are a safe bet?
Its UKIP all the way for me but I wouldn't claim them to be the safest bet. I am voting for change and a breath of fresh air but we would be entering the unknown would we not?
Its UKIP all the way for me but I wouldn't claim them to be the safest bet. I am voting for change and a breath of fresh air but we would be entering the unknown would we not?
(it was late to be fair) I some how managed to forget the name of the thread 
and answered as if it was the general election.With regards to some of the nonsense Martin is saying about wanting Farage to give a more balanced opinion on the EU IMO is wrong. He will answer any question asked of him but we can't expect him to give us reasons why we should be in the EU . He clearly says he wants out and gives his argument accordingly. Its for one of the other party's, who DON'T want to leave the EU to have the ***** to stick by what they want and argue the point. That would give us a clear choice,at the moment the only CLEAR choice we have is to vote out(which will do me fine to be fair).
Last edited by Carnut; 21 May 2014 at 11:05 AM.
21 May 2014, 11:11 AM
#39
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When I read f1_fan post I just read it as a general comment and took it out of context (it was late to be fair) I some how managed to forget the name of the thread and answered as if it was the general election.
With regards to some of the nonsense Martin is saying about wanting Farage to give a more balanced opinion on the EU IMO is wrong. He will answer any question asked of him but we can't expect him to give us reasons why we should be in the EU . He clearly says he wants out and gives his argument accordingly. Its for one of the other party's, who DON'T want to leave the EU to have the ***** to stick by what they want and argue the point. That would give us a clear choice,at the moment the only CLEAR choice we have is to vote out(which will do me fine to be fair).
(it was late to be fair) I some how managed to forget the name of the thread and answered as if it was the general election.With regards to some of the nonsense Martin is saying about wanting Farage to give a more balanced opinion on the EU IMO is wrong. He will answer any question asked of him but we can't expect him to give us reasons why we should be in the EU . He clearly says he wants out and gives his argument accordingly. Its for one of the other party's, who DON'T want to leave the EU to have the ***** to stick by what they want and argue the point. That would give us a clear choice,at the moment the only CLEAR choice we have is to vote out(which will do me fine to be fair).
21 May 2014, 11:19 AM
#40
Why so?
If you look at any of the parties, NONE of them argue both sides. They state what it is THEY believe will be best for us (them) and leave the opposite to others.
Unfortunately, the others just give us soundbites, like, "If we were to leave the Ec it would mean the loss of x million jobs ion the UK...."
But as to why? Where? How? In what industries? etc, no answer.
Anyone can make a statement without backing it up.....as you know well Martin
If you look at any of the parties, NONE of them argue both sides. They state what it is THEY believe will be best for us (them) and leave the opposite to others.
Unfortunately, the others just give us soundbites, like, "If we were to leave the Ec it would mean the loss of x million jobs ion the UK...."
But as to why? Where? How? In what industries? etc, no answer.
Anyone can make a statement without backing it up.....as you know well Martin
21 May 2014, 11:20 AM
#41
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I think truth be told - it IS ideological with Farage
he simply wants the UK to be governed by a UK elected parliament - whether he is right or wrong on that, that is his view
so whether the majority in the "out of Europe UK" would be financially better off (I am sure he argues everyone would) is a moot point
he simply wants the UK to be governed by a UK elected parliament - whether he is right or wrong on that, that is his view
so whether the majority in the "out of Europe UK" would be financially better off (I am sure he argues everyone would) is a moot point
21 May 2014, 11:30 AM
#42
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Why so?
If you look at any of the parties, NONE of them argue both sides. They state what it is THEY believe will be best for us (them) and leave the opposite to others.
Unfortunately, the others just give us soundbites, like, "If we were to leave the Ec it would mean the loss of x million jobs ion the UK...."
But as to why? Where? How? In what industries? etc, no answer.
Anyone can make a statement without backing it up.....as you know well Martin
If you look at any of the parties, NONE of them argue both sides. They state what it is THEY believe will be best for us (them) and leave the opposite to others.
Unfortunately, the others just give us soundbites, like, "If we were to leave the Ec it would mean the loss of x million jobs ion the UK...."
But as to why? Where? How? In what industries? etc, no answer.
Anyone can make a statement without backing it up.....as you know well Martin
21 May 2014, 01:41 PM
#44
Would like to vote Conservative but right now they are not following what I would consider to be conservative principles. That leaves Labour (no, just... no), Lib Dems (no, just... no), and UKIP.
So it's UKIP, simply through no other choice.
So it's UKIP, simply through no other choice.
21 May 2014, 01:54 PM
#45
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The % voter turn out will be interesting. (i'm guessing it will be low) As I think v few people believe or trust any of the parties, but I do think that UKIP will see an increase.
Richard
Richard
21 May 2014, 02:15 PM
#46
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The three of them are like the wizard of oz,I just can't decide which one is without the Brain,Ed or Clegg.Cameron is the one without a heart,or should it be courage.**** knows.
I got it.
Brainless Ed
Courageless Clegg
Heartless Dave
I got it.
Brainless Ed
Courageless Clegg
Heartless Dave
Last edited by DYK; 21 May 2014 at 02:26 PM.
22 May 2014, 10:41 AM
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22 May 2014, 10:51 AM
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22 May 2014, 11:07 AM
#56
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Vote for whoever you like, but in my opinion, and as I stated yesterday, anyone who votes Tory in the EU election must be either naive or have a very large set of blinkers on as they are not being remotely honest with the electorate over the EU!
we need change. UKIP for me too.
22 May 2014, 01:06 PM
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22 May 2014, 01:10 PM
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My fear is that this will all result with in a big lurch to the right