Here we go again, open book and spoilt for choice
27 April 2013, 10:33 PM
#331
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Was fully back after about 30 mins, but now is "softish" all the time, going to try Castrol Response SRF on recommendation, next track day will tell !!
Very happy with the way it stops, but the PF carbon metallic pads may have been contributing to the fluid problem as they generate a lot of heat I am advised, so maybe Pagid RS14 could be an option. Certainly wheel actual temps were very high and the brake heating could have affected the AD08's. Discs are well coated with pad material.
Its so good to be worrying about peripheral things as opposed to wether the engine is going to hold up thats a no brainer after today.
62 miles full on 580 (ish) bhp and no issues at all, got to be good !! just need to go faster !!
cheers
Very happy with the way it stops, but the PF carbon metallic pads may have been contributing to the fluid problem as they generate a lot of heat I am advised, so maybe Pagid RS14 could be an option. Certainly wheel actual temps were very high and the brake heating could have affected the AD08's. Discs are well coated with pad material.
Its so good to be worrying about peripheral things as opposed to wether the engine is going to hold up thats a no brainer after today.
62 miles full on 580 (ish) bhp and no issues at all, got to be good !! just need to go faster !!
cheers
29 April 2013, 10:03 PM
#334
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Video link
Here is the link to the video, its only 720p on Vimeo but I also have a 1080p version, trouble is its 2.3 Gb !
It looks very tame compared to what actually was going on, the Go pro hero 3 my son stuck in the car seems to take out all the "movement" as we were bouncing around a fair bit and also getting some good slides on in the third and fourth session. Unfortunately Dave had to leave taking the camera with him as the last session was by far the quickest
but any way ... here it is
cheers
bob
It looks very tame compared to what actually was going on, the Go pro hero 3 my son stuck in the car seems to take out all the "movement" as we were bouncing around a fair bit and also getting some good slides on in the third and fourth session. Unfortunately Dave had to leave taking the camera with him as the last session was by far the quickest
but any way ... here it is
cheers
bob
Last edited by Bob Rawle; 29 April 2013 at 10:05 PM.
29 April 2013, 10:10 PM
#335
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
By the way what do you get when you put 6 and a half year old meth into the tank .... 6 and a half hours of sorting out the mess !!!
Fortunately all well but I ended up binning over 150 litres of contaminated fuel to clear it !!
More haste less speed !!
bob
Fortunately all well but I ended up binning over 150 litres of contaminated fuel to clear it !!
More haste less speed !!
bob
30 April 2013, 07:34 AM
#338
Scooby Regular
That's the main problem with track sessions on show days to many out there thinking they can drive when they clearly can't ,,don't worry bob ill keep you updated on any proper track days we are doing this season as there isn't as many numptys out there
,,,,,,Great to have you with bbs and looking forward to the next one
22 November 2014, 04:13 PM
#339
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Time to bring this thread back to the top ...
With the engine having done over 26,000 miles I felt it was time to lift it out and do a health check, since my engine had one of the very first closed deck inserts in it, bear in mind this was built in 2010 long before the cdi thing became popular, it seemed prudent to strip it and check how things were.
Chevron Motorsport are a company I work with and map cars for, we have also been involved together in developing some of the latest Owen Developments turbo solutions for Subaru. So in October 2013 I left the car there.
At the same time the plan was to de-squish the heads which should allow more ignition timing to be used and reduce the risk of "plasma arcing" through the head gasket. This occurs when the squish area becomes super heated. Its more common if 2.5 litre head gaskets are used on a 2.2 block as a "det cavern" is then created due to the head gasket being bigger than the cylinder bore. Not an issue in my case being a "true" 2.5.
The engine had been running faultlessly up to the point of removal so it was not expected to find any major problems. However there were some areas that were not as we expected. Without going into great detail they were ...
One head had four of the retaining nuts backed off ... only two were fully torqued. No sign of any head gasket issue though so "lucky"
The cams were Cosworth copies, 278 inlet and 274 exhaust ... the cam bearing journals showed clear evidence that only about 50% of the journal length had been acting as a bearing. There appeared to be a mismatch on the journal grinding. The cam bearings in the heads were then showing signs of uneven wear and we were concerned that the heads may be scrap.
Compression and cylinder leak down testing before engine removal showed that cylinder 4 may have an issue, the other three were "as new" in terms of readings.
That was a concern, we expected to see a problem with number 4 piston, but there was no sign of anything. So a closer look at the head was needed.
The exhaust valve seats in number four head were not cut to the correct angles so the valves would never properly seat. To aggravate things the cam to valve bucket clearances were not correct being far too tight and actually holding the valves off the seats, a very small amount but enough.
This condition had been present throughout the whole life of the engine, given how well it had performed it was somewhat of a surprise.
It looked like the heads would be scrap however we decided it was worth trying to salvage them. Simon uses an excellent machine shop for all engine work. They looked at the heads and said that in their opinion the problems were recoverable, the cam journals were line bored and valve seats reworked back to new standard. It was a relief as these are full spec Cosworth heads which had further work carried out to them.
Due to the de-squish the engine compression would be reduced if the existing pistons were retained. So I decided to change them to bring it back up towards the original level. That meant sourcing 100mm "high" compression Mahle 2618 pistons to replace the "low" compression version. Only available from the USA it took an age to get them.
Brand new genuine Cosworth 278 and 274 cams have been refitted ... copies save money but can cause problems as we saw.
The block was checked for distortion and wear, nothing of any significance was noted, the engine had never used any oil between changes even after a track day.
Chevron have a meticulous approach to these checks, the block was bolted up and measured cold, then the whole assembly was heated and soaked to 90 degrees Centigrade and the measurements repeated.
In addition to being "closed decked" the block (amongst other components) had been Cryogenically treated before assembly, its very hard to quantify the longer term effect/benefit that has given but the condition of all the parts involved could not be faulted.
Some areas of the block insert showed signs of movement due to expansion and contraction, but the areas affected could be said to be "expected" to show this.
So the block was given a clean bill of health and rebored to suit the new pistons.
That leaves me with a set of 99.75 high compression pistons that can be put into the for sale section
The rest of the block specification has been kept as before, 14mm head studs and so on
So with all the "niggles" sorted out the engine was rebuilt again using Mahle big end shells and ACL main bearing shells, oil pump was stripped and checked.
The original cam belt tensioner had become "soft" so thats now been replaced with the earlier version. These tensioners should be treated as a "consumable" and replaced with a cam belt change.
Pics of cam journal and Closed deck insert
With the engine having done over 26,000 miles I felt it was time to lift it out and do a health check, since my engine had one of the very first closed deck inserts in it, bear in mind this was built in 2010 long before the cdi thing became popular, it seemed prudent to strip it and check how things were.
Chevron Motorsport are a company I work with and map cars for, we have also been involved together in developing some of the latest Owen Developments turbo solutions for Subaru. So in October 2013 I left the car there.
At the same time the plan was to de-squish the heads which should allow more ignition timing to be used and reduce the risk of "plasma arcing" through the head gasket. This occurs when the squish area becomes super heated. Its more common if 2.5 litre head gaskets are used on a 2.2 block as a "det cavern" is then created due to the head gasket being bigger than the cylinder bore. Not an issue in my case being a "true" 2.5.
The engine had been running faultlessly up to the point of removal so it was not expected to find any major problems. However there were some areas that were not as we expected. Without going into great detail they were ...
One head had four of the retaining nuts backed off ... only two were fully torqued. No sign of any head gasket issue though so "lucky"
The cams were Cosworth copies, 278 inlet and 274 exhaust ... the cam bearing journals showed clear evidence that only about 50% of the journal length had been acting as a bearing. There appeared to be a mismatch on the journal grinding. The cam bearings in the heads were then showing signs of uneven wear and we were concerned that the heads may be scrap.
Compression and cylinder leak down testing before engine removal showed that cylinder 4 may have an issue, the other three were "as new" in terms of readings.
That was a concern, we expected to see a problem with number 4 piston, but there was no sign of anything. So a closer look at the head was needed.
The exhaust valve seats in number four head were not cut to the correct angles so the valves would never properly seat. To aggravate things the cam to valve bucket clearances were not correct being far too tight and actually holding the valves off the seats, a very small amount but enough.
This condition had been present throughout the whole life of the engine, given how well it had performed it was somewhat of a surprise.
It looked like the heads would be scrap however we decided it was worth trying to salvage them. Simon uses an excellent machine shop for all engine work. They looked at the heads and said that in their opinion the problems were recoverable, the cam journals were line bored and valve seats reworked back to new standard. It was a relief as these are full spec Cosworth heads which had further work carried out to them.
Due to the de-squish the engine compression would be reduced if the existing pistons were retained. So I decided to change them to bring it back up towards the original level. That meant sourcing 100mm "high" compression Mahle 2618 pistons to replace the "low" compression version. Only available from the USA it took an age to get them.
Brand new genuine Cosworth 278 and 274 cams have been refitted ... copies save money but can cause problems as we saw.
The block was checked for distortion and wear, nothing of any significance was noted, the engine had never used any oil between changes even after a track day.
Chevron have a meticulous approach to these checks, the block was bolted up and measured cold, then the whole assembly was heated and soaked to 90 degrees Centigrade and the measurements repeated.
In addition to being "closed decked" the block (amongst other components) had been Cryogenically treated before assembly, its very hard to quantify the longer term effect/benefit that has given but the condition of all the parts involved could not be faulted.
Some areas of the block insert showed signs of movement due to expansion and contraction, but the areas affected could be said to be "expected" to show this.
So the block was given a clean bill of health and rebored to suit the new pistons.
That leaves me with a set of 99.75 high compression pistons that can be put into the for sale section
The rest of the block specification has been kept as before, 14mm head studs and so on
So with all the "niggles" sorted out the engine was rebuilt again using Mahle big end shells and ACL main bearing shells, oil pump was stripped and checked.
The original cam belt tensioner had become "soft" so thats now been replaced with the earlier version. These tensioners should be treated as a "consumable" and replaced with a cam belt change.
Pics of cam journal and Closed deck insert
22 November 2014, 04:42 PM
#340
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
With the engine rebuilt things should have been completed quickly, but for whatever reason there is always "I wonder if ... !!" and soon we were discussing turbo's. The LM500 that I had been using was superb and had exceeded expectations for a standard position unit, I was looking for 500 bhp on Shell V Power when the build was planned, it did %%@ at relatively low boost.
But there is always an "opportunity"
A chat with Lee at Owen Developments decided things and the turbo was sent over to them for strip and check, if nothing else was done at least it would have been health stamped. But the feedback was "we can improve" so ...
New compressor wheel to latest OD design (bigger) with new compressor cover that uses an 83mm intake. Turbine wheel replaced with an innocent WRC spec component and the bearing core upgraded to full OD WRC spec. Small details that make the difference such as a conical retaining nut for the compressor wheel were also added in. With the larger inlet it needed a new intake pipe, Chevron have a matching pipe for this inlet size. the existing 80mm maf tube and induction setup has been retained.
As a reminder the engine is running twin scroll using oem headers and up pipe, so this turbo is actually unique as its using the original LM turbine housing that Iain at Litchfield Imports commissioned with Turbo Dynamics.
I will comment on its performance during initial mapping later on.
We now had a problem, the large intake pipe was a very tight fit around the original inlet manifold made worse by the use of Cosworth throttle bodies, the manifold spacers helped but the pipe was distorted. Added to this the throttle drive motor on the throttle body was also impinging on the pipe. Not a desirable or acceptable situation.
Simon suggested we look at using a Spec C one piece manifold, it seemed like a straightforward conversion .. haha ... not !!
Plenty of space but how to mate the drive by wire throttle body to it ... solution .... rotate the throttle body through 90 degrees and make a custom adaptor to suit, it also needed different fuel rail mounting brackets and spacers,
Injectors have been changed from 800cc to 1100 cc Asnu units, slightly longer in length.
I am using the Chevron combined oil cooler and coolant radiator with modine delete kit in the car so the standard factory thermostat has been retained to ensure oil temperature remains in the correct range.
The fuel system uses a Litchfield swirl pot with Bosch Motorsport pump feeding RCM parallel rails, this has been retained. We will, however, change the rubber sleeve braided lines to teflon sleeve braided lines, much smaller in diameter and we can also improve the routing and change the interconnect fittings to reduce fuel temperature. I will be monitoring fuel temperature so a sensor adapter has also been incorporated.
But there is always an "opportunity"
A chat with Lee at Owen Developments decided things and the turbo was sent over to them for strip and check, if nothing else was done at least it would have been health stamped. But the feedback was "we can improve" so ...
New compressor wheel to latest OD design (bigger) with new compressor cover that uses an 83mm intake. Turbine wheel replaced with an innocent WRC spec component and the bearing core upgraded to full OD WRC spec. Small details that make the difference such as a conical retaining nut for the compressor wheel were also added in. With the larger inlet it needed a new intake pipe, Chevron have a matching pipe for this inlet size. the existing 80mm maf tube and induction setup has been retained.
As a reminder the engine is running twin scroll using oem headers and up pipe, so this turbo is actually unique as its using the original LM turbine housing that Iain at Litchfield Imports commissioned with Turbo Dynamics.
I will comment on its performance during initial mapping later on.
We now had a problem, the large intake pipe was a very tight fit around the original inlet manifold made worse by the use of Cosworth throttle bodies, the manifold spacers helped but the pipe was distorted. Added to this the throttle drive motor on the throttle body was also impinging on the pipe. Not a desirable or acceptable situation.
Simon suggested we look at using a Spec C one piece manifold, it seemed like a straightforward conversion .. haha ... not !!
Plenty of space but how to mate the drive by wire throttle body to it ... solution .... rotate the throttle body through 90 degrees and make a custom adaptor to suit, it also needed different fuel rail mounting brackets and spacers,
Injectors have been changed from 800cc to 1100 cc Asnu units, slightly longer in length.
I am using the Chevron combined oil cooler and coolant radiator with modine delete kit in the car so the standard factory thermostat has been retained to ensure oil temperature remains in the correct range.
The fuel system uses a Litchfield swirl pot with Bosch Motorsport pump feeding RCM parallel rails, this has been retained. We will, however, change the rubber sleeve braided lines to teflon sleeve braided lines, much smaller in diameter and we can also improve the routing and change the interconnect fittings to reduce fuel temperature. I will be monitoring fuel temperature so a sensor adapter has also been incorporated.
22 November 2014, 05:10 PM
#341
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Simon had run the engine in the car to check all was well, initial fill with bedding in oil and 45 to 50 miles covered, then drained and a fresh fill of Semi synthetic 10-40 was put in, new filter of course.
I had previously loaded a rom file into the ecu with adjusted injector settings.
The first step in mapping is to put a proper running in map on the car so that the engine can be made to see some progressive load, its not good to be too tentative during the run in period otherwise bore glazing can result ... its important to put some decent load on the engine to get the rings working without going over the top.
Simon drive the car while I was mapping, we were most interested in how the turbo was going to respond in its new form .. to benchmark that I left the exact settings in the rom file that I had been using before the engine came out. So much more responsive, I would say probably spooling 500 to 600 rpm earlier even with the tight engine I will need to reprofile the torque maps to reduce sensitivity ... its way too eager at any throttle level. Thank you Lee
Injectors scaling adjustments were fine, no need to change, some maf re-profiling was needed.
Having checked and adjust things for low and medium boost levels the engine felt really sweet and definitely up for it. So some full throttle work was done ... it would have been rude not to
I used to have intake pipe issues, it would collapse which then reduced the boost, the ecu would try and recover it then it would drop again, no problems of that nature now and a flat 1.6 bar boost was seen up to 6400 rpm ... my rev limit was 8300 but thats for another day when the final mapping is done.
Maximum injector duty was 73% on the 1100 cc, it was 93 % using 800cc so this spec engine would have maxed the 800's even at this running in level. Currently I am using "standard" fuel pressure so there is scope in that if I need it.
Very pleased, the engine is very sweet, all credit to Chevron for their attention to detail ... John you are a star !!
In addition ...
Simon has some updated valving for my Bilstein B16's to install, we have changed the bottom front suspension arms to spec C ... I was using Chevron modified std ones.
Braided brake lines and Castrol SRF fluid so no more boiled brake fluid !!
Auto headlamp alignement sensors need repositioning to allow the headlight self levelling to work properly.
Then it just needs some miles before final mapping both on the road and on the rollers
cheers
bob
I had previously loaded a rom file into the ecu with adjusted injector settings.
The first step in mapping is to put a proper running in map on the car so that the engine can be made to see some progressive load, its not good to be too tentative during the run in period otherwise bore glazing can result ... its important to put some decent load on the engine to get the rings working without going over the top.
Simon drive the car while I was mapping, we were most interested in how the turbo was going to respond in its new form .. to benchmark that I left the exact settings in the rom file that I had been using before the engine came out. So much more responsive, I would say probably spooling 500 to 600 rpm earlier even with the tight engine I will need to reprofile the torque maps to reduce sensitivity ... its way too eager at any throttle level. Thank you Lee
Injectors scaling adjustments were fine, no need to change, some maf re-profiling was needed.
Having checked and adjust things for low and medium boost levels the engine felt really sweet and definitely up for it. So some full throttle work was done ... it would have been rude not to
I used to have intake pipe issues, it would collapse which then reduced the boost, the ecu would try and recover it then it would drop again, no problems of that nature now and a flat 1.6 bar boost was seen up to 6400 rpm ... my rev limit was 8300 but thats for another day when the final mapping is done.
Maximum injector duty was 73% on the 1100 cc, it was 93 % using 800cc so this spec engine would have maxed the 800's even at this running in level. Currently I am using "standard" fuel pressure so there is scope in that if I need it.
Very pleased, the engine is very sweet, all credit to Chevron for their attention to detail ... John you are a star !!
In addition ...
Simon has some updated valving for my Bilstein B16's to install, we have changed the bottom front suspension arms to spec C ... I was using Chevron modified std ones.
Braided brake lines and Castrol SRF fluid so no more boiled brake fluid !!
Auto headlamp alignement sensors need repositioning to allow the headlight self levelling to work properly.
Then it just needs some miles before final mapping both on the road and on the rollers
cheers
bob
23 November 2014, 08:58 AM
#343
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Malta
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great writeup Bob. Chevron really know their stuff and their attention to detail is un imaginable until you see it. They are supported by the best suppliers and so makes a great combination. I am happy for you and that it was worth the wait. Hope we can map mine by end of this year!!
23 November 2014, 02:14 PM
#346
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Its taken time Glenn Chevron have had a massive amount of work to cope with supporting the boys in the MLR sprint series and Time Attack.
Thought a couple of turbo pics might be of interest
Thought a couple of turbo pics might be of interest
Last edited by Bob Rawle; 23 November 2014 at 02:16 PM.
25 November 2014, 05:26 PM
#348
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Wales Scoobys Supporter
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
That turbo looks awsome Bob ,heard good things about Chevron from the guy who now owns my old S204 .He told me to take my FSTI there for suspension set up
21 December 2014, 05:49 PM
#349
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
One of the side effects of fitting aftermarket suspension to a Hawk is that the self levelling ecu can get very unhappy due to the front and rear sensors going out of range, my car is lowered by 43mm ... so this was a problem.
However John at Chevron made up some custom brackets which put the sensors back to the correct orientation and position, the ecu then needed resetting but stubbornly resisted ... till today :-) its now all sorted.
So, if you have a Hawk with this problem the solution is to reposition the levelling sensors to mimic the OEM condition, and then reset the levelling ecu as per the manual. It does work..
For reference my spec is as follows. Whiteline components used exclusively to support the Bilstein's
Bilstein B16 custom valved to a unique Chevron specification
Spec C bottom arms
24mm roll bars front and rear.
Solid drop links
Anti lift kit
Bump steer kit
Adjustable front top mounts
Group N engine mounts
Group N gearbox mounts
Uprated pitch stopper
Rear diff mounts
Re-bushed front and rear
gear linkage bush kit
I have probably missed something out but the car is fitted with just about everything it could be to get the best result :-)
Simon at Chevron has set this up to suit me .... thats no understeer, very sharp turn in with just a trace of oversteer on lift. Shod with a set of Yoko 235-45-17 AD08 R tyres on std Hawk rims :-)
Seeing the car break traction all up to 4th in the colder weather ... and thats on my rough run in map :-) ... but this setup makes it all very civilised
However John at Chevron made up some custom brackets which put the sensors back to the correct orientation and position, the ecu then needed resetting but stubbornly resisted ... till today :-) its now all sorted.
So, if you have a Hawk with this problem the solution is to reposition the levelling sensors to mimic the OEM condition, and then reset the levelling ecu as per the manual. It does work..
For reference my spec is as follows. Whiteline components used exclusively to support the Bilstein's
Bilstein B16 custom valved to a unique Chevron specification
Spec C bottom arms
24mm roll bars front and rear.
Solid drop links
Anti lift kit
Bump steer kit
Adjustable front top mounts
Group N engine mounts
Group N gearbox mounts
Uprated pitch stopper
Rear diff mounts
Re-bushed front and rear
gear linkage bush kit
I have probably missed something out but the car is fitted with just about everything it could be to get the best result :-)
Simon at Chevron has set this up to suit me .... thats no understeer, very sharp turn in with just a trace of oversteer on lift. Shod with a set of Yoko 235-45-17 AD08 R tyres on std Hawk rims :-)
Seeing the car break traction all up to 4th in the colder weather ... and thats on my rough run in map :-) ... but this setup makes it all very civilised
28 December 2014, 10:17 AM
#351
Sponsor
iTrader: (250)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 2minutes from J10 M6 Walsall West Midlands
Posts: 11,933
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
9 Posts
Good to see this out and being used Bob me and simon had talked about it countless times every time I was there it's a great spec car and attention to detail and items used are second to none and a credit to you and all involved.
hope to see it out on the road one day also glad I only had to supply simon the spec c manifold and not do all the work to fit the dbw throttle body I know what a pain they are
hope to see it out on the road one day also glad I only had to supply simon the spec c manifold and not do all the work to fit the dbw throttle body I know what a pain they are
29 December 2014, 03:49 PM
#352
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Simon said that if anyone ever heard him agreeing to do that again to shoot him !! But its a nice job now its done, very appreciative of the manifold being available they are rare items these days but make life so much easier when it came to fitting the turbo and intake pipe, I use manifold spacers under it to get a bit extra space.
cheers
bob
cheers
bob
03 January 2015, 02:46 PM
#353
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Someone has just asked me for a quick list of my engine spec ... so here it is for reference it will save people delving back through the thread if nothing else :-)
2.5 closed deck block cryogenically treated
Std nitrided crank
ACL main bearings
Mahle big end bearings
Uprated 11 mm oil pump
Mahle 2618 low silicon pistons
Uprated rods
14mm head stud conversion
RCM Head gaskets
Cosworth full spec heads all fully flowed etc
Big valves
Double valve springs
Titanium collets etc in the valve train
Genuine Cosworth 278 inlet and 274 exhaust cams
Early cam belt tensioner set up
Converted to twin scroll using OEM twin scroll headers and up pipe
Hyperflow 5.1 litre twin scroll baffled sump
Turbo was originally Litchfield LM500 but is now modified from that to full WRC spec and bigger wheels etc by Owen Developments has 83mm intake
1100 cc injectors
Engine bay swirl pot system using Bosch Motorsport 10 bar fuel pump
Roger Clark parallel fuel rails
Fuel Lab fuel pressure regulator
83mm turbo intake pipe
Spec C inlet manifold
Manifold spacers
Chevron combined oil cooler and radiator (best you can get)
Exhaust is RCM supplied “Team Ice” with resonated centre section … actually I designed this system, its “mine” but they are the sole outlet for it.
Hyperflow FMIC
80mm maf tube adaption and K & N filter mounted behind the front bumper
Three port boost control solenoid
cheers
2.5 closed deck block cryogenically treated
Std nitrided crank
ACL main bearings
Mahle big end bearings
Uprated 11 mm oil pump
Mahle 2618 low silicon pistons
Uprated rods
14mm head stud conversion
RCM Head gaskets
Cosworth full spec heads all fully flowed etc
Big valves
Double valve springs
Titanium collets etc in the valve train
Genuine Cosworth 278 inlet and 274 exhaust cams
Early cam belt tensioner set up
Converted to twin scroll using OEM twin scroll headers and up pipe
Hyperflow 5.1 litre twin scroll baffled sump
Turbo was originally Litchfield LM500 but is now modified from that to full WRC spec and bigger wheels etc by Owen Developments has 83mm intake
1100 cc injectors
Engine bay swirl pot system using Bosch Motorsport 10 bar fuel pump
Roger Clark parallel fuel rails
Fuel Lab fuel pressure regulator
83mm turbo intake pipe
Spec C inlet manifold
Manifold spacers
Chevron combined oil cooler and radiator (best you can get)
Exhaust is RCM supplied “Team Ice” with resonated centre section … actually I designed this system, its “mine” but they are the sole outlet for it.
Hyperflow FMIC
80mm maf tube adaption and K & N filter mounted behind the front bumper
Three port boost control solenoid
cheers
18 March 2015, 03:54 PM
#354
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Took the car to Surrey Rolling Road today to check what my running in road map had produced. The engine clicked past 1000 miles as I drove down.
Got the car strapped on and we did a throttle controlled 1.2 bar run to settle things down ... 510 bhp ... hmmm
Then we did a full throttle on my running in map with nothing changed ... 543 bhp and 518 ft lbs ... considering the engine only had 58 miles on it when we did this not a bad result, it exceeded the fully mapped figures of two years earlier on the same rollers by 9 bhp.
So a few tweaks, boost lifted to 1.7 bar from 1.6 (no need for more), ignition and fueling adjustments and we had ...
580.6 bhp and 575 ft lbs ... thats on straight V Power .. no meth and the turbo is the Owen Developments std position turbo that I have already described.
Peak power at 7200 rpm and its a 2.5 litre engine ... pretty awesome
The lower power and torque graph is from the running in map
There is more in it, but as a V Power road map I figured this could be fun
Huge thanks to Simon and John at Chevron Motorsport and Lee at Owen Developments, just shows what attention to detail can do.
Got the car strapped on and we did a throttle controlled 1.2 bar run to settle things down ... 510 bhp ... hmmm
Then we did a full throttle on my running in map with nothing changed ... 543 bhp and 518 ft lbs ... considering the engine only had 58 miles on it when we did this not a bad result, it exceeded the fully mapped figures of two years earlier on the same rollers by 9 bhp.
So a few tweaks, boost lifted to 1.7 bar from 1.6 (no need for more), ignition and fueling adjustments and we had ...
580.6 bhp and 575 ft lbs ... thats on straight V Power .. no meth and the turbo is the Owen Developments std position turbo that I have already described.
Peak power at 7200 rpm and its a 2.5 litre engine ... pretty awesome
The lower power and torque graph is from the running in map
There is more in it, but as a V Power road map I figured this could be fun
Huge thanks to Simon and John at Chevron Motorsport and Lee at Owen Developments, just shows what attention to detail can do.
19 March 2015, 08:57 AM
#356
Scooby Regular
Bob,
That's pretty outstanding..... and then we realise it's a standard position turbo.
The area under the curve alludes to a monumental powerband for road use. Over 400ftlb from 3800-7600.
Based on my experience with my previous SPEC C, you're now in the realms of "too much power for road use".
So when you going for some Meth runs?
Well done to all involved - let's now see how your block takes this amount of torque.
That's pretty outstanding..... and then we realise it's a standard position turbo.
The area under the curve alludes to a monumental powerband for road use. Over 400ftlb from 3800-7600.
Based on my experience with my previous SPEC C, you're now in the realms of "too much power for road use".
So when you going for some Meth runs?
Well done to all involved - let's now see how your block takes this amount of torque.
19 March 2015, 03:35 PM
#357
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Thanks Shaun, block "should" be fine its the later stronger version with the thicker liners and has been toughened further by the Cryo treatment, when we stripped it there was no sign of anything untoward, we measured it at room temperature and also at plus 90 degrees centigrade to check for distortions.
I had these figures using 10 % meth on the old spec so its been running at this level for a while.
The nice difference is that this was just using V Power only ... no meth involved :-)
You can never have "too much" .. lol its called a right foot !!
But 500 bhp at about 1 bar of boost is a bit mind blowing I agree
cheers
bob
I had these figures using 10 % meth on the old spec so its been running at this level for a while.
The nice difference is that this was just using V Power only ... no meth involved :-)
You can never have "too much" .. lol its called a right foot !!
But 500 bhp at about 1 bar of boost is a bit mind blowing I agree
cheers
bob
19 March 2015, 08:22 PM
#359
Scooby Regular
20 March 2015, 10:34 PM
#360
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Lol ... all everyone thinks about is how big the numbers can be. Nice thought mind.
I have some meth in the garage, I may decide to do a bit of a meth map but that won't be to achieve a big number that would be to provide as much headroom as possible for track. It would take it to 610/620 bhp I would think but beyond that is just stressing things unnecessarily. I ran the car on 10% meth for track use in its previous incarnation and achieved a 30 to 35 bhp increase, but that was't the objective.
I have some meth in the garage, I may decide to do a bit of a meth map but that won't be to achieve a big number that would be to provide as much headroom as possible for track. It would take it to 610/620 bhp I would think but beyond that is just stressing things unnecessarily. I ran the car on 10% meth for track use in its previous incarnation and achieved a 30 to 35 bhp increase, but that was't the objective.