johnfelstead

It took about 10 minutes to climb to 102C then sat at that level for the remainder of the session.

I could have been on there until the fuel ran out, it wouldn't have gone any higher. Same goes for water and charge temps.

Bob Rawle

Lol ... can't argue with that !!

cheers

bob

Bob Rawle

As posted I changed the standard map sensor on my car to a 4 bar Omnipower device, with suitable rescaling factors in the ecu rom this performs exactly like the stock sensor and nothing about the car has been affected. the same sensor fitted to a car equipped with the earlier throttle cable ecu (MY01 to MY05 European and MY01 to MY07 JDM) does cause a few issues and its necessary to turn off CEL codes and also adjust the scaling to overcome the inherent software limit in the boost target maps, thats 2.72 bar absolute btw. In addition on the earlier cars the idle control is also affected causing the idle to slowly drift upwards. This is due to the sensor input voltage being too low and outside the ecu's usable range at idle vacuum.

I have, historically, characterised the early MY93 to 96 sensors together with the MY97 to MY00 sensors. I have now added the Omnipower calibration to that together with three new age sensors, namely 22672AA170, 22672AA280 and 22672AA380. The AA170 sensor is used on most of the JDM and European cars MY01 to MY05, there is also an AA171 sensor which performs identically. The AA380 is from my Hawkeye and is used on the MY06-07 cars. The AA280 is a Spec C sensor.

I have graphed these together.

Summarising ...

The early sensor is good to measure up to 224 KPa
The MY97 to MY00 sensor is good to measure up to 280 KPa
The AA170/171 sensor is good to measure up to 270 KPa
The AA380 sensor is good to measure up to 270 KPa
The AA280 sensor is good to measure up to 300 KPa.

I also included a GM 3 Bar calibration for comparison.

Note that the above limits are quoted in absolute units.

Strictly you should choose a sensor to give the best granularity, so simply going for a 4 bar sensor is not the right solution the sensor range needs to be selected to suit the car configuration and intended boost level.

cheers, hope this is of some interest

bob

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Couldn't you change the sandwich plate to a 95 degree marine version?

Bob Rawle

I think that would not be ideal, there is work going on to set the opening point required to maintain optimum oil temps.

best regards

bob

2pot

iTrader: (3)

I, perhaps, made that sound a bit Heath Robinson.
You could have the Mocal OTSP1FHF: m20 high flow sandwich plate.
But specify the 92-104 degC stat, or the 95-110degC stat.
HTH

Bob Rawle

Hi, thanks for that info, a 12 to 15 degree opening tolerance is too wide for most applications there is quite a fine line between too hot and too cold in the Subaru engine, currently we are experimenting to get to the right set point with cooperation of course. It could be that the end result is a derivative of one of the above.
JF has just been to "the ring" and hopefully will post up some useful detail somewhere shortly, he is using the same rad/oil cooler system in his 2.1.

cheers

bob

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Hi
Those tolerances are starting to open to fully open

johnfelstead

We have a higher opening temp stat i was hoping to fit prior to my Nurburgring trip, but we ran out of time to do the swap.

I'll have to whip out my radiator to replace the air con radiator after injesting a Pheasant! So will swap the stat out when that is done.

In case it isnt clear, the current setup has a properly functioning thermostat, it's just set a tad too low, i expect the swaped item to be spot on, but like all these things it will be properly tested and if needed will be modified further.

Bob Rawle

That pheasant certainly made a mess ! Problem with the stats is there is a pretty infinite number of combinations of wax type and spring rate to cmix together. Once you are happy with yours I will get Simon to swap mine, but being a 2.5 it may well need further fine tuning. To date though, the two cars have tracked coolant temps pretty much together.

Been looking at those gauges John they are a nice option I will give them a bell and see whats to be done.

cheers

bob

johnfelstead

Good stuff, if you plan on using a 3BAR boost gauge give me a shout as i am about to pop mine on eBay.

Bob Rawle

Hi John, not sure if I would want to use 60mm or 52mm size yet, I am considerate of the space the larger gauges take up on the dash but have some concerns over the accuracy of the smaller ones, if they use the same internal "engine" thats not a problem.

cheers

bob

johnfelstead

52mm and 60mm use the same internals, so should be as good on accuracy.

Bob Rawle

This coming saturday 27th April is a Castle Combe Action day and I decided it would be rude not to take the car on track (at last).

So I decided to treat it to a meth map

Having checked back over my datalogs it seemed that my 800cc injectors would not support a 20% meth mix in tank so I opted for 10%. Just as well since running "safe" afr's I am at 100% injector duty at 8000 rpm and 1.6 bar.

Kept it conservative and just added three degrees of ignition as at this time I am after reducing EGT's and providing some headroom for the track. bear in mind my compression ratio is 8.9 to 1.

I have some scope to increase fuel pressure, but I think that I will be changing the 800's to something more accommodating. I think even 1000cc would be a bit tight so maybe 1300's.

According to my before and after Deltadash runs it picked up about 30 to 35 bhp but performance increase was not the main objective.

Having not run with a meth mix for some time I had forgotten how sweet that makes a motor run .... even the idle.

So I have V Power only on "Road" and the meth option on "Race".

I just have to remember to get the mix right now !!

cheers

bob

yozef

iTrader: (4)

Well done Bob, take some action footage for us this weekend.

STI Glenn

I will look out to see how you go

Shaun

Bob,
Have one of these and then one of these

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

Meth is the way

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

Looking forward to seeing the car on track Bob, always wanted to see your car being "driven" any chance of a passenger ride

Bob Rawle

Thanks all, yozef I have no camera otherwise I would defiantly do that, I have four sessions booked but they are all taken for passengers. Given its an Action day not a Track Day I suspect we will have to "behave" ... whatever that means

Shaun know what you mean speak soon

cheers

Bob Rawle

When the STi 5 was noise tested fitted with the same exhaust (not the actual one mind) as I have on the car then at Elvington it tested at 89 db, however this one is twin scroll and with the higher compression so I am sort of a bit thinking it might be close. Which was another reason for advancing the ignition.

cheers

Shaun

As a side note Bob, with my previous SPEC C I was using 1150cc injectors, albeit with a FPR, Bosch 044, swirl pot and retaining the standard SPEC C intank pump. That provided enough fuel for 600+bhp using Q16 - still utilising the OEM fuel lines.

Bob Rawle

Hi Shaun thanks, if I was running Q16 I wouldn't have any problem with the 800's but meth means much higher injector duty's needed. It takes four times as much meth to provide the same energy level as petrol and the stoich point is only 6 to 1 ish so you always need much more injector duty.

cheers

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

Sorry for "numpty" question Bob, but does that mean that if you get say 20 miles to the gallon on v-power, you would only get 5 miles to the gallon if you were somehow able to run on just meths ??

MartynJ

Interesting Bob as from our experience of both carb and injected vehicles you require twice as much neat methanol as petrol ? Or to simplify, if you run neat meth you will require injectors and a fuel system capable of delivering twice as much fuel.
A 10% meth mix will normally require approx 5-7 % more fueling overall.

Bob Rawle

Agree Martyn, 6.7 % typically in my case ... but I was talking about "energy" content, happy to be corrected if you think I am wrong.

Fuel consumption ... I can't really answer you, maybe Martyn can, since you need to use that much more then it has to suffer, there is no gain without pain

cheers

bob

Shaun

I've seen a marked decrease in fuel consumption since moving to a 20% mix on Meth - but to be fair, because I can't easily brim the tank to see what the car is doing, this is probably a tad subjective as I'm using elements of the fuel gauge to judge. However in this car..... I don't a **** about fuel consumption.

Bob - Stop posting on this thread and send me an email.

Bob Rawle

Shaun, ok I promise !!

Just back from the Castle Combe Action day, I had four track sessions booked which is an hours track time, took my son and the son of a friend with me so had a passenger in the car at all times (two each).

First just to say that the engine was flawless, absolutely no issues, temps so constant it was unreal, coolant never above 83 deg C and charge temps never over 23 deg C in a max ambient of 19 deg C (it was damn cold early on though).

So I am very very happy with this ... 62 miles of full on castle Combe is a fair test I think.

So what problems ... well brakes, each session bar the last at the start of the last lap the brake pedal started to sink, not funny ! Looks like a brake fluid issue as whats in there is original (my bad I didn't even think about it) and so its bound to be waterlogged and really not suitable, the plus side is that the performance Friction disc/pad and brembo combo stops the car really well. To arrive at the Bobbies chicane if I floored it out of the previous corner I arrived at a stupid speed and had the abs working over time, but at no time during the day did I experience any fade at all.

Tyres .... Yokohama AD08 ... you would think these would be the dogs ... andf they are, but the last session I really got into the groove and didn't have the brake fluid problem, simply because I was going faster and being braver, but on the next to last lap I exited Quarry, shot through the chicane and round tower then down the back "straight". As I exited Tower I said to Chad (passenger) "tyres are going off". Round the next bend to the Bobbies chicane, normal entry with probably a tad more speed but nothing excessive and the rear simply let go big time, so opposite locks etc and back on track.

The handling was great, as I pushed I could drift the car round the fast bends, no understeer at all, and under hard braking the car was very stable and controlled. Big thank you to Simon at Chevron, he supplied installed and set it all up. Awesome stuff !!

I think I could have gone even faster with some suspension adjustment, slightly "softer" and also taken the front camber out to minus 3.5 from minus 2.5 but to be honest its wasn't a day for trying to be super quick although I was hitting 130 mph on the main straight through Folly.

I had said I wouldn't have any video but dave (son) turned up with a Go Pro Hero 3 so I will be able to post some HD video of the first three runs, run 3 will be the one to look at though. Also we have about 600 pics !!!

Big thanks to Bristol and Bath Scoobies for having me on their stand, great to meet up with customers and talk about all things Scooby. Spent virtually the whole afternoon in a queue or on track so I must apologise for the lack of availability.

So thats it I am afraid totally hooked back on to track ... having spent three/four years drag racing due to being "bored" with track I am once again hooked.

Video etc to follow

cheers

bob

Bob Rawle

Just skimming the forum saw a post about oil consumption, forgot to mention that ... 62 mile round Combe full on ... zero !!! What can I say, Paul Finch take a bow !! What a great job you did.

Thats the Motul 5w-50 Sport full ester

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68893-mo...ngine-oil.aspx

cheers

Shaun

Sounds like you may have boiled the fluid a tad if feel came back later on. Good to hear the PF set-up worked well - I think they are a good set-up for what they are. I had my fluid changed a month or so ago... I immediately felt a difference and I suspect the fluid was a few years old (well at the very least 2).

Those HF cores work really well don't they!

Look forward to the video.