Mixing pads
20 April 2011, 05:09 PM
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Mixing pads
Hi there,Brakes aren't too good at the mo so I'm starting off by fitting new pads all round. I fitted EBC yellow's a couple of weeks ago to the rear and cleaned up calipers etc which has improved things but I'm now looking to do the same at the front.My question is, will the aztech kevlar peformance friction pads work ok on the front with yellow EBC's on the rear? With the kevlar being £60 delivered and the EBC yellows £130 i'm tempted to go with the kevlar but I'm not sure how they will perform together, even though they are fitted as axle sets...Anyone else running a similar setup?Cheers Mike
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20 April 2011, 10:07 PM
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Sometimes mixing pads is better then using the same stuff all round, but be carefull when mixing pads made for very different applications.
I am running a Stoptech BBK up front, with CL RC6 pads, and the RC6 pad I mounted on the back sorted out a very unstable car (back end was coming round on heavy braking)
Funny thing is that the pads I had on the back before (Axxis ULT, which replaced some Jurid pads) fixed the same problem when the front still had Ds2500 fitted.
The RC6 is a very fast road/track pad, the Axxis and Ds2500 are fast road/light track pads, the Jurids were usefull as a bin liner.
So I think mixing is ok, as long as the intended usage that the manufacturer of the pads recommends is not to different.
I am running a Stoptech BBK up front, with CL RC6 pads, and the RC6 pad I mounted on the back sorted out a very unstable car (back end was coming round on heavy braking)
Funny thing is that the pads I had on the back before (Axxis ULT, which replaced some Jurid pads) fixed the same problem when the front still had Ds2500 fitted.
The RC6 is a very fast road/track pad, the Axxis and Ds2500 are fast road/light track pads, the Jurids were usefull as a bin liner.
So I think mixing is ok, as long as the intended usage that the manufacturer of the pads recommends is not to different.
21 April 2011, 08:18 AM
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22 April 2011, 09:08 AM
#11
What year car is it?
I do not reccomend mixing pad compounds on Pre MY98 Imprezas fitted with 3 channel ABS. Unless fully tried and tested and declared to be safe in all braking situations (with cold pads and hot).
Weird things can happen. Which essentially results in a total loss of braking performance if/when the ABS is triggered during an emergency stop (braking before the ABS is triggered appears to be fine). So for that above reason I do not reccomend mixing differing types of fast road/race pads. As I can't say which brands/compound do or don't work without physically trying them in all driving sitauations, and many people seem ignorant or unable to fully acknowledge this potentially severe problem.
The issue revolves round situations where if the pads are cold or not up to full operating temperature (like in gentle city driving or when cruising on the motorway), there is a risk of a front to rear brake bias inbalance where the front pads may not always work as well as the rear. If that situation ever occurs during an emergency stop a wheel momentarily snatches (usually a rear wheel), the ABS gets its knickers in a twist and basically removes almost all braking effort - no matter how hard you press the pedal. One second you have great brakes, then suddenly the ABS triggers and you have almost nothing! This can be in the dry or wet. Obviously it happen more in the wet, which usually means the driver blames it on a slippery road surface or (diesel spillage etc).
Later model year Imprezas with 4 channel ABS don't appear to be affected.
I do not reccomend mixing pad compounds on Pre MY98 Imprezas fitted with 3 channel ABS. Unless fully tried and tested and declared to be safe in all braking situations (with cold pads and hot).
Weird things can happen. Which essentially results in a total loss of braking performance if/when the ABS is triggered during an emergency stop (braking before the ABS is triggered appears to be fine). So for that above reason I do not reccomend mixing differing types of fast road/race pads. As I can't say which brands/compound do or don't work without physically trying them in all driving sitauations, and many people seem ignorant or unable to fully acknowledge this potentially severe problem.
The issue revolves round situations where if the pads are cold or not up to full operating temperature (like in gentle city driving or when cruising on the motorway), there is a risk of a front to rear brake bias inbalance where the front pads may not always work as well as the rear. If that situation ever occurs during an emergency stop a wheel momentarily snatches (usually a rear wheel), the ABS gets its knickers in a twist and basically removes almost all braking effort - no matter how hard you press the pedal. One second you have great brakes, then suddenly the ABS triggers and you have almost nothing! This can be in the dry or wet. Obviously it happen more in the wet, which usually means the driver blames it on a slippery road surface or (diesel spillage etc).
Later model year Imprezas with 4 channel ABS don't appear to be affected.
22 April 2011, 09:24 AM
#12
Hi there,Brakes aren't too good at the mo so I'm starting off by fitting new pads all round. I fitted EBC yellow's a couple of weeks ago to the rear and cleaned up calipers etc which has improved things but I'm now looking to do the same at the front.My question is, will the aztech kevlar peformance friction pads work ok on the front with yellow EBC's on the rear? With the kevlar being £60 delivered and the EBC yellows £130 i'm tempted to go with the kevlar but I'm not sure how they will perform together, even though they are fitted as axle sets...Anyone else running a similar setup?Cheers Mike
The yellow stuff pads are a better performance pad than the kevlar pads , you should NEVER have a better pad in the rear than the fronts , this will make the rears work better and cause the car to be unstable under heavy braking , especially on corners , you can mix pads but the better pads would have to be in the front , the fronts do 60 - 70% of the braking so will always be hotter than the rears , so you should put a pad in the front that will cope with higher temps than the rears
Cheers Ian
22 April 2011, 09:43 AM
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HI
The yellow stuff pads are a better performance pad than the kevlar pads , you should NEVER have a better pad in the rear than the fronts , this will make the rears work better and cause the car to be unstable under heavy braking , especially on corners , you can mix pads but the better pads would have to be in the front , the fronts do 60 - 70% of the braking so will always be hotter than the rears , so you should put a pad in the front that will cope with higher temps than the rears
Cheers Ian
The yellow stuff pads are a better performance pad than the kevlar pads , you should NEVER have a better pad in the rear than the fronts , this will make the rears work better and cause the car to be unstable under heavy braking , especially on corners , you can mix pads but the better pads would have to be in the front , the fronts do 60 - 70% of the braking so will always be hotter than the rears , so you should put a pad in the front that will cope with higher temps than the rears
Cheers Ian
What he said.
I ran a hill climb car and stupidly put better pads on the back. The result was me braking hard into a corner and ending up going backwards into the scenery at a vast rate of knots!! Thankfully not hitting anything substantial.
I cured this by fitting standard pads at the rear with EBC's at the front.
22 April 2011, 09:50 AM
#14
What he said.
I ran a hill climb car and stupidly put better pads on the back. The result was me braking hard into a corner and ending up going backwards into the scenery at a vast rate of knots!! Thankfully not hitting anything substantial.
I cured this by fitting standard pads at the rear with EBC's at the front.
I ran a hill climb car and stupidly put better pads on the back. The result was me braking hard into a corner and ending up going backwards into the scenery at a vast rate of knots!! Thankfully not hitting anything substantial.
I cured this by fitting standard pads at the rear with EBC's at the front.
Interesting, the first time I personally experienced the pre-MY98 ABS issue, it was with OEM rears and EBC fronts (red I think).
When cold (i.e motorway driving or cruising about town) the rears would always grab first and send the ABS into a spivvy fit.
It was only when doing some sprited driving where the fronts had warmed up that normal ABS operation resumed. Replacing the fronts with OEM pads cured the problem (I guess putting reds on the rear would have sorted it too).
22 April 2011, 10:15 AM
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Interesting, the first time I personally experienced the pre-MY98 ABS issue, it was with OEM rears and EBC fronts (red I think).
When cold (i.e motorway driving or cruising about town) the rears would always grab first and send the ABS into a spivvy fit.
It was only when doing some sprited driving where the fronts had warmed up that normal ABS operation resumed. Replacing the fronts with OEM pads cured the problem (I guess putting reds on the rear would have sorted it too).
When cold (i.e motorway driving or cruising about town) the rears would always grab first and send the ABS into a spivvy fit.
It was only when doing some sprited driving where the fronts had warmed up that normal ABS operation resumed. Replacing the fronts with OEM pads cured the problem (I guess putting reds on the rear would have sorted it too).
22 April 2011, 10:45 AM
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So is the suggestion here then that Bobs advice is wrong? Ie EBC yellowstuff on the rear will over out perform the lesser Kevlar front pads? Just to clarify for future reference 
22 April 2011, 11:05 AM
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What he said.
I ran a hill climb car and stupidly put better pads on the back. The result was me braking hard into a corner and ending up going backwards into the scenery at a vast rate of knots!! Thankfully not hitting anything substantial.
I cured this by fitting standard pads at the rear with EBC's at the front.
I ran a hill climb car and stupidly put better pads on the back. The result was me braking hard into a corner and ending up going backwards into the scenery at a vast rate of knots!! Thankfully not hitting anything substantial.
I cured this by fitting standard pads at the rear with EBC's at the front.
dunx
22 April 2011, 12:15 PM
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Cheers Ian, I'll bare that in mind when I have another Impreza. I used to run Black diamond front and standard rear pads for the same reasons as stated above.
22 April 2011, 01:05 PM
#22
OP has a Bugeye WRX.
Having actually used both the Yellows and our Kevlar pads I can say there isn't a great deal between them. That said the Yellowstuff compound has changed over the years afaik.
Ideally we always recommend matching compounds front and rear or close to it.
Can supply Yellowstuff front/rear or Kevlar front/rear. Cost is a factor for the OP also.
Having actually used both the Yellows and our Kevlar pads I can say there isn't a great deal between them. That said the Yellowstuff compound has changed over the years afaik.
Ideally we always recommend matching compounds front and rear or close to it.
Can supply Yellowstuff front/rear or Kevlar front/rear. Cost is a factor for the OP also.
Last edited by Aztec Performance Ltd; 22 April 2011 at 01:07 PM.
22 April 2011, 02:48 PM
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Cost is a factor for everyone I'd have thought. But if there is a difference in stopping power between yellowstuff and Kevlar, and you do end up with the previously mentioned instability under braking due to having better on the rear than front, wouldn't it be better to simply say replace all the pads.
What I mean is cost shouldn't dictate a safe to drive car, bit like running budget tyres on an Impreza too. I've never had yellowstuff pads so can't compare them with Kevlar pads but if what is said above is true (with yellowstuff being better than Kevlar I mean) then your comment about it being fine doesn't add up. But if they are very similar that's a different matter.
If your to skint to put the right pads at the right end of your car then you should sell it IMO or put crap ones on the front and back
Just to add... For £130 over £60 I'd expect a he'll of a difference regardless of compound
What I mean is cost shouldn't dictate a safe to drive car, bit like running budget tyres on an Impreza too. I've never had yellowstuff pads so can't compare them with Kevlar pads but if what is said above is true (with yellowstuff being better than Kevlar I mean) then your comment about it being fine doesn't add up. But if they are very similar that's a different matter.
If your to skint to put the right pads at the right end of your car then you should sell it IMO or put crap ones on the front and back
Just to add... For £130 over £60 I'd expect a he'll of a difference regardless of compound
Last edited by chocolate_o_brian; 22 April 2011 at 02:51 PM.
03 May 2011, 05:01 PM
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Ok, thanks for all the info (not been online for a while). I was originally going to buy Kevlar pads but after reading these posts I think I'll go for the yellow's on the front to match the rears, even though they cost twice the price! Hopefully that will sort the brakes.ThanksMike
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