Slicks - recommendations?
04 February 2002, 01:31 AM
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Trout, you're being a bit picky! Just getting hold of a set of (used) slicks to fit 17in wheels on a Scoob is hard enough. 16in easy, 17in in anything less than 640mm diameter is hard to get. And I think 640 is just too tall (maybe wrong, but that's waaaay bigger than a standard 215/40x17 at 604mm diameter.
I got mine from a guy in Milton Keynes who had a garage full. He'll no doubt post something in For Sale when the season gets underway. But if you can find a National Championship that runs on Scoob-friendly rubber, just turn up at the end of the day, bung the mechanics a few quid and fill your boot (and the back and front seats). I have a friend who races Formula Renault and the almost-new slicks they sling in the skip cost a bleedin' fortune - shame they're far too small
But if you're buying new there is much more choice, although they're not always in stock and cost £100-150 a corner. For that money, I'd prefer some of the new track day tyres that a few makers have introduced - road legal and you can run them in the wet (if you're brave
). But these also cost a packet and, with only 6mm of tread, I wouldn't think they'd last more than three or four track days, max. I could be wrong, but can't afford to find out for sure. I'll dig out some details if you're interested.
The last two sets of slicks I had were Dunlops - I don't recall the compound but when I looked it up it was smack in the middle of their chart, so I assumed 'medium' but compared to road tyres they were very soft. From memory, they were 210/620x17 and I had no rubbing on ET52 17x7in wheels (UK00).
They were great to drive and mega sticky. But you could feel the extra stresses they were putting on the car and I don't run slicks any more. For a start, they're more hassle. Can't drive them to the track, can't drive them in the wet.
Also, when they get hot, they're like glue and they pick up marbles which can throw your wheel balance out alarmingly. Okay, you scrub them off at the next corner but when you come in through the paddock, they have bits of gravel and *** ends welded into the surface and you can't clean them off.
Another thing is both my 16in and 17in Dunlops developed sidewall cracks which didn't thrill me. I think this is because they are actually quite high profile and on a heavy road car they were getting too much sidewall flex. Should be fitted to 8in or wider wheels, maybe. And on a light, stripped-out race car no doubt superb.
Finally, and bizarrely, they actually spoiled my tack day fun a bit. I also have big APR brakes plus Prodrive suspension so I could catch most cars very quickly, and I ain't no hero driver. On the brakes, I'd take 30 yards out of them, and my corner speed was maybe 10mph higher. I could reel them in like, well, a bit like a Trout actually
What happens then is that the slower car moves over to let you past, but do they let off? Do they hell, and often I didn't have enough straight-line speed to get past. If I held back, to take advantage of higher corner speed and sling-shot past them, the last time they looked in the mirror I was too far back to worry about and by the time I was on their bumper to pass they just didn't know I was there. Does that makes sense? On the slicks I only got a handful of clear laps all day. On well-worn road tyres it's double that which is what it's about for me.
Have I put you off? If so, sorry. But it's worth getting a set just to try as they will open your eyes and you'll feel like a driving God (or a Fish God )
Best regards,
Richard.
[Edited by Hoppy - 4/2/2002 1:40:21 AM]
I got mine from a guy in Milton Keynes who had a garage full. He'll no doubt post something in For Sale when the season gets underway. But if you can find a National Championship that runs on Scoob-friendly rubber, just turn up at the end of the day, bung the mechanics a few quid and fill your boot (and the back and front seats). I have a friend who races Formula Renault and the almost-new slicks they sling in the skip cost a bleedin' fortune - shame they're far too small
But if you're buying new there is much more choice, although they're not always in stock and cost £100-150 a corner. For that money, I'd prefer some of the new track day tyres that a few makers have introduced - road legal and you can run them in the wet (if you're brave
). But these also cost a packet and, with only 6mm of tread, I wouldn't think they'd last more than three or four track days, max. I could be wrong, but can't afford to find out for sure. I'll dig out some details if you're interested.The last two sets of slicks I had were Dunlops - I don't recall the compound but when I looked it up it was smack in the middle of their chart, so I assumed 'medium' but compared to road tyres they were very soft. From memory, they were 210/620x17 and I had no rubbing on ET52 17x7in wheels (UK00).
They were great to drive and mega sticky. But you could feel the extra stresses they were putting on the car and I don't run slicks any more. For a start, they're more hassle. Can't drive them to the track, can't drive them in the wet.
Also, when they get hot, they're like glue and they pick up marbles which can throw your wheel balance out alarmingly. Okay, you scrub them off at the next corner but when you come in through the paddock, they have bits of gravel and *** ends welded into the surface and you can't clean them off.
Another thing is both my 16in and 17in Dunlops developed sidewall cracks which didn't thrill me. I think this is because they are actually quite high profile and on a heavy road car they were getting too much sidewall flex. Should be fitted to 8in or wider wheels, maybe. And on a light, stripped-out race car no doubt superb.
Finally, and bizarrely, they actually spoiled my tack day fun a bit. I also have big APR brakes plus Prodrive suspension so I could catch most cars very quickly, and I ain't no hero driver. On the brakes, I'd take 30 yards out of them, and my corner speed was maybe 10mph higher. I could reel them in like, well, a bit like a Trout actually
What happens then is that the slower car moves over to let you past, but do they let off? Do they hell, and often I didn't have enough straight-line speed to get past. If I held back, to take advantage of higher corner speed and sling-shot past them, the last time they looked in the mirror I was too far back to worry about and by the time I was on their bumper to pass they just didn't know I was there. Does that makes sense? On the slicks I only got a handful of clear laps all day. On well-worn road tyres it's double that which is what it's about for me.
Have I put you off? If so, sorry. But it's worth getting a set just to try as they will open your eyes and you'll feel like a driving God (or a Fish God )
Best regards,
Richard.
[Edited by Hoppy - 4/2/2002 1:40:21 AM]
04 February 2002, 12:18 PM
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Guys,
thanks for that.
I was running a set of second hand slicks on Saturday - 210/620/17ins.
The problem I had was three were very well worn and one was almost new - the almost new one overheated badly and delaminated!
I liked the slicks and have a spare set of wheels! The car had no problem reeling other cars in - also big brakes and big power - but on road tyres the other cars caught me up again as they overheated - not on slicks. Also the track wasn't too busy so it did not reduce my fun!
As the car is being used more and more as a track specific car I guess I'll put up with the extra strain!
John - if this guy has something interesting on the Scooby specific front then I would be interested!
Off to work out my 'real' top speeds now I understand the difference in 'd'.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 4/2/2002 12:22:02 PM]
thanks for that.
I was running a set of second hand slicks on Saturday - 210/620/17ins.
The problem I had was three were very well worn and one was almost new - the almost new one overheated badly and delaminated!
I liked the slicks and have a spare set of wheels! The car had no problem reeling other cars in - also big brakes and big power - but on road tyres the other cars caught me up again as they overheated - not on slicks. Also the track wasn't too busy so it did not reduce my fun!
As the car is being used more and more as a track specific car I guess I'll put up with the extra strain!
John - if this guy has something interesting on the Scooby specific front then I would be interested!
Off to work out my 'real' top speeds now I understand the difference in 'd'.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 4/2/2002 12:22:02 PM]
01 April 2002, 06:44 PM
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OK - what experience have people had with slicks for 17in wheels.
I would like them to last more than one track day! So I guess a hard compound would be good.
What make - what type to people have experience of - and what are the best sources?
Cheers,
Trout
I would like them to last more than one track day! So I guess a hard compound would be good.
What make - what type to people have experience of - and what are the best sources?
Cheers,
Trout
02 April 2002, 11:07 AM
#4
I'd speak to Ronnie at Wheels Around on 01764 662897.
He has stocks of 2nd hand 17 inch slicks available that will fit an Impreza. He even has sets of 16 and 17 inch slicks mounted on Impreza wheels for hire for track days.
Ronnie can advise you on the best compund etc to use, based on the type of activity you'll be doing. If you want to do 30+laps at a time, then go for a harder compound.
He can also supply any size of new slick, moulded slick (road legal) etc that you require. He is currently looking to get some interest for a track specific slick (most of the ones currently available are designed for rallying/road legal, and can be worn out during a whole day on track) in an ideal size for the Impreza 210/610/17 which won't rub anywhere. Only problem is that he needs to have orders for 4 sets before Yokohama will consider importing them into the UK, as they aren't currently available.
John
He has stocks of 2nd hand 17 inch slicks available that will fit an Impreza. He even has sets of 16 and 17 inch slicks mounted on Impreza wheels for hire for track days.
Ronnie can advise you on the best compund etc to use, based on the type of activity you'll be doing. If you want to do 30+laps at a time, then go for a harder compound.
He can also supply any size of new slick, moulded slick (road legal) etc that you require. He is currently looking to get some interest for a track specific slick (most of the ones currently available are designed for rallying/road legal, and can be worn out during a whole day on track) in an ideal size for the Impreza 210/610/17 which won't rub anywhere. Only problem is that he needs to have orders for 4 sets before Yokohama will consider importing them into the UK, as they aren't currently available.
John
03 April 2002, 08:31 AM
#5
210 x 620 x 17" is definately the only one to go for if running 17's on track ( as I do )....this size was predominantly manufactured for the Vectra Cup Challenge and any slicks left over are becoming very hard to find indeed. Andy Ewings ( Tel; 07968 - 048322 ) has some used one's from time to time. I also had an interesting conversation with Mark and his friend from Tyres Northampton who say they can most definately source and supply some new Dunlops (not usually offered openly for sale) in the above size no problem.
As for compounds I normally go for a mid range, say like D5 (Pirelli's), I have found that part worn slicks (Dunlops) last me 2 - 3 hard track days...BUT rotating them throughout the day is an absolute must, as well as having them taken off the rim before the next day and changing from outside to in (shoulder wear)...all this will help in gaining the 2 - 3 trackdays I'm quoting. New tyres will only last possibly 1 maybe 2 more at best
At Bedford I had a set that I knew I would get 1 more day out of....ironically, due to listening to the briefing word for word I did use the width of the track as advised.....hence sliding on most of the fast run off's thus causing the tyres to eventually shred and peel back beyond the canvass....
Hoppy is right about being able to catch/reel other cars in....it does become a little boring after a while and you do tend to take more risks without realising you're taking them
Chris
As for compounds I normally go for a mid range, say like D5 (Pirelli's), I have found that part worn slicks (Dunlops) last me 2 - 3 hard track days...BUT rotating them throughout the day is an absolute must, as well as having them taken off the rim before the next day and changing from outside to in (shoulder wear)...all this will help in gaining the 2 - 3 trackdays I'm quoting. New tyres will only last possibly 1 maybe 2 more at best
At Bedford I had a set that I knew I would get 1 more day out of....ironically, due to listening to the briefing word for word I did use the width of the track as advised.....hence sliding on most of the fast run off's thus causing the tyres to eventually shred and peel back beyond the canvass
....Hoppy is right about being able to catch/reel other cars in....it does become a little boring after a while and you do tend to take more risks without realising you're taking them
Chris
05 April 2002, 10:46 PM
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I've got some 17" slicks in the garage, if you're interested! 8 dunlops like Richard's and 2 Pirelli.
Must admit that I found the same with braking/cornering: I could catch people easily but with RB5 WR power, if they didn't lift off I couldn't get past safely.
Of course, if one of the slicks goes off, you have _real_ problems!!
To be honest, I think you need to do something to the suspension if you're running big brakes and slicks. The 'dive' on braking had the back end going totally light on more than one occasion: if I'd not been in a dead straight line then it would have been big trouble. Plus as Richard said, they have a tendancy to roll the rubber about and shred the edges.
For some reason, I was going through 6 slicks per day: the two front sets always ending up down to the embedded wire mesh on the edges!
Having said that, the grip is amazing and they're bloody good fun.
Must admit that I found the same with braking/cornering: I could catch people easily but with RB5 WR power, if they didn't lift off I couldn't get past safely.
Of course, if one of the slicks goes off, you have _real_ problems!!
To be honest, I think you need to do something to the suspension if you're running big brakes and slicks. The 'dive' on braking had the back end going totally light on more than one occasion: if I'd not been in a dead straight line then it would have been big trouble. Plus as Richard said, they have a tendancy to roll the rubber about and shred the edges.
For some reason, I was going through 6 slicks per day: the two front sets always ending up down to the embedded wire mesh on the edges!
Having said that, the grip is amazing and they're bloody good fun.
06 April 2002, 11:12 AM
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I had a few laps with slicks on my STi V at Bedford, and they felt very strange on the first lap, lost of rumble and self centering effect. Got used to them then and they certainly give you a big advantage over road tyres. Wasn't sure if it was quite as satisfying passing other cars with the slicks on - the 'playing' field was more even on road tyres...
The question is do they hammer your suspension, bushes, wheel bearings etc beyond what might be reasonable due to the extra grip?
Playing with the idea of getting slicks on my 16" stock wheels, and getting 17" wheels for 'everyday' use. Will getting 17" wheels improve or slightly decrease handling/balance/grip etc. Unsure if it is a move only for the better looks...
Thanks for any advice
Diesel
The question is do they hammer your suspension, bushes, wheel bearings etc beyond what might be reasonable due to the extra grip?
Playing with the idea of getting slicks on my 16" stock wheels, and getting 17" wheels for 'everyday' use. Will getting 17" wheels improve or slightly decrease handling/balance/grip etc. Unsure if it is a move only for the better looks...
Thanks for any advice
Diesel
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06 April 2002, 02:15 PM
#8
Slicks are fun but they do add extra stress to other parts of the car because they are absorbing extra cornering force that would otherwise lead to a slipping tyre. That stress has to go somewhere, so you will find that it puts extra pressure on suspension components, bushes etc. It ultimately could damage the shell of your car as unless you have it welded and rollcaged, it will flex, as its the only thing left to give. Strutbraces and things help.
I'm with Hoppy regarding BA as you'd get left on the straights unless you've got STi power & although you catch & push 'em round the corners, there's not enough left to slingshot past. Also leads to P'd off P1 owners busting a gut to catch you then spending the next lap sliding off the track in front of you just trying to keep ahead 
Now slicks at Brands or Oulton...
I'm with Hoppy regarding BA as you'd get left on the straights unless you've got STi power & although you catch & push 'em round the corners, there's not enough left to slingshot past. Also leads to P'd off P1 owners busting a gut to catch you then spending the next lap sliding off the track in front of you just trying to keep ahead
Now slicks at Brands or Oulton...
04 June 2002, 07:28 PM
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A couple of comments....
....car is STi V with lots of braces at both ends and although standard struts - other uprated bits like bushes - so suspension is fine.
Also runs a few extra horses - just wanted to enjoy the car to the limit on the track!
Krtyen - how much for the tyres mate?
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 4/6/2002 7:29:01 PM]
....car is STi V with lots of braces at both ends and although standard struts - other uprated bits like bushes - so suspension is fine.
Also runs a few extra horses - just wanted to enjoy the car to the limit on the track!
Krtyen - how much for the tyres mate?
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 4/6/2002 7:29:01 PM]
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