nicklouse10

Hi,

Just bought a 1996 (N) WRX to use as a track day car. I will also be driving it on the road a bit, but not very many miles

It's pretty standard right now, and I dont intend to make it any more powerful for a a year or so.

I've ordered a set of Yokohama Parada Spec2 tyres for it and am now looking at the brakes. My budget is "as little as physically possible" I've only got about £250 to throw at the brakes in total (buying the car cleaned me out)

I've heard that I can expect brake fade quite quickly on the track with the standard setup? and that a cheap upgrade is to swap the calipers for a set of 4-pots from another Subaru, and get some better disks + pads

would appreciate any advice on what will fit, what I should expect to pay, etc etc
cheers
Nick

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Yes, your cheapest upgrade will be the 4-pot calipers fitted to later Scoobs and then the early UK WRX. They can be recognised by the raised SUBARU on each caliper front face. You will be able to bolt them straight on but you DO need the discs that go with them, since they are bigger.
And they will only fit under 98-onwards 16" wheels, or bigger.

I would try and budget for some braided brake lines at the same time.

One of the beauties of the SUBARU brakes is that Godspeed sell a kit to bang them up to over 300mm with his own bigger, thicker, vented discs, should you wish to go bigger later.

I'd also send Ian an e-mail at ian@godspeedbrakes.co.uk, asking for advice on pads, which he can supply.

1000rwhp

my standard 4-pot brakes on my 54 v-limited are very good ,but just the other day done some very hard braking on the motorway from about 90 to 50 and they overheated and caught fire,i have apec pads(rubbish) just make sure you get good pads....mate,

thanks

172sport

iTrader: (6)

Just save up mate, it makes more sense than buying later model brakes when there not really up to the job either.
As a minimum you want The STI Gold Brembo's.

nicklouse10

had a look at those on ebay, there are a few listed but they are 4 times the price of the later model 4 pots
am hesitant to spend that much. Am really trying to do this on as small a budget as possible.

have emailed Ian too, cheers Alcazar

@1000RWHP cheers, I'll definitely be taking advice before buying pads

budd

iTrader: (5)

upgrading your brakes including callipers for £250 is damn near impossible unless you can find some 4 pots dirt cheap or free!!!, even if you managed to do this you'll still need front discs, pads all around, new fluid and Goodridge hoses, these alone without the calipers will still probably blow your budget, the only way to get a worth while upgrade with the funds available is to make the existing 2 pots and OE discs handle the heat better, starting with pads, eg OMP road sport pads £71 delivered that's front and rear!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OMP-Front-Rear...item5ad35a2004
I've used these pads and they are very good for the money, OK they aren't up to the performance of Mintex 1155/66 or Ferodo DS 3000 etc but they are a fraction of the price, while it's true you do get what you pay for it's a case of diminishing returns £71 will get you a pad that resists fade and remains stable up to 600C, replace the flexis with Goodridge £60 ish, decent fluid Motul RBF600 / ATE / AP Racing Blue etc will set you back £30 tops for 2 ltrs, if you retain the stock used discs (they are gonna get mullered anyway) ensure the rest of the system is tip top, ie , cleaned, lubed and all the sliders move freely you will see a massive improvement in overall braking and it should stand up to your intended trackday use, you could even knock up some form of ducting to aid cooling, I’d say you should easily be able to do this well inside your budget for around £160 all in.
OK it's never going to be as good as a 4pot or Brembo set up (those 2 pot sliders are pretty poor) but with the money you've got available it's always going be a big compromise, this way it lets you use the car on track while saving up the £600 plus you'll need to upgrade to Brembos, also it will allow you to see how the car performs in relation to your brakes this will give you a valuable insight into where to best spend the money when choosing your next upgrade.


Also when your ready and deciding on 4 pots or Brembos, don’t forget about the rears the single pot rears are pretty poor and should be replaced with later 2 pots and larger discs, you can save money on this by fitting Nissan rear callipers as they are often cheaper S/H but exactly the same as the Subaru items.

RE costs of a upgrade inc callipers, expect to pay
£100 > 175 pr for 4 pots
£250>300 + pr for Brembos
Front Discs (use a decent quaility not motor factor cheapies) £150 pr
Pads lots of choice here do some resreach, take advice front £100 to £200+ rears £80 >£120
Rear Callipers (Nissan or Subaru) £50>75,, backing plates £ depends on whether you go new or manage to source some through a breaker, rear mounting brakets £30 pr.
all plus fluid + fitting etc





Before I get slated by other forums users for recommending retaining the 2 pots it's the only way on the money available.

Tidgy

for track use the early calipers need ditching, or thats where you'll end up. its not something worth scrimping on, personaly i'd save up and get a decent set of calipers, disks, pads, lines and fluid.

budd

iTrader: (5)

that's all well and good but he did say he only had £250 to spend no one else as come up with a solution that doesn't involve alot more money.
So unless he's found another £400 the car doesn't get used, what's the point in that? anyway a decent driver can drive around brake problems allow them to cool by doing a couple of slow laps after all it's a trackday we're talking about here not BTTC get off line allow the brakes to come back to you.
Sometimes you have to make the best with what you've got.

172sport

iTrader: (6)

LOL, You say that but a trackday will cost £500ish easy.

I'd rather miss a trackday and have the car for many others......

Cheaper than digging it out a wall or gravel trap!

Its all about priorities I'm afraid.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

As has already been said, you'll need a more realistic budget as your current calipers are really poor.

For track worthy brakes you'll need to spend closer 1k imho.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

As has already been said, you'll need a more realistic budget as your current calipers are really poor.

For track worthy brakes you'll need to spend closer 1k imho.

172sport

iTrader: (6)

Had no issues at all on track with my set up.

£500 Gold Brembo's
£120ish Front Performance Friction pads
£85 should get decent rear pads, I used cheap ones but could have done with better
£65 braided lines
£15 for new fluid.

nicklouse10

couldn't agree more!

£500 for a track day???
the average track day costs me about £150
My local track is Knockhill. track days range from £60 to £120 depending on how long they last and which club organises them. I usually go through about £50 of fuel in a full day (in my old Porsche 944 track car) and probably about another £40 in consumables (tyres, brakes etc)

the car only cost £1800. TBH if I were to find that I couldn't have fun on a track day unless I'd spent £1000 just on the brakes, then I'll have to sell the car and look for something else. thats just way over what I can afford

I do trackdays as a hobby on a tight budget. I normally spend about 10-15 minutes on track before coming on for a 15 minute cool down.

My car already has braided hoses and I already have a gallon of high spec 5.1 fluid in the garage.

I'm currently bidding on a set of 4-pots on ebay that come with a couple of sets of good disks. If I win the auction all I'll need is a fresh set of rear disks and some good pads all round. I think I'll probably be Ok with that setup

Nick

budd

iTrader: (5)

LOL £500 what track's that Monaco!!! try Mallory Park open pit, 105db £119 + fuel £200 tops,

I do know what you mean and your right it is important to get the brakes right but if it means sitting with the car on the drive trying to save up £1000 ( I know what I'm like at saving money) I'd just say f##k it and make sure the tow eyes are well marked for pulling it out of the gravel.

I'm building a Classic for the Subaru Cup and if I have to I'll be fitting OMP pads with the 2 pots on OE discs so if you happen to be at Lydden Hill in July don't stand to close to the tyre wall it could get very interesting

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Before splashing out on Brembos, you need to check if the calipers will clear yor wheels. You'll be surprised how big an improvement 4 pots fitted with decent discs / pads / hoses fluid makes over the 2 pots.

budd

iTrader: (5)

your quite right it is possible to get a car out on track for not a lot of money and have big fun, after all that's what it's all about,

172sport

iTrader: (6)

Trackday (Cadwell) £150ish
Fuel (on track only) £150 -200
Tyres/Brakes/Oil/Filter £(depends on milage/weather. etc)
Travel (Usually get the Mrs to follow me down car full with jerry cans and a spare set of tyres/wheels) £50ish

I wish I could get away with 50 quids worth of fuel on a trackday..................!

I worked out at approx 6-7MPG


Seriously it costs £500 quid ballpark............

I've been seriously looking at different cars, have my eye on an E30 M3 with a popped engine but the guy wont sell................................Yet!

budd

iTrader: (5)

I agree, all the production class Subaru Cup cars run 4 pots with very few issues, so dispite what same people say they arent that bad

172sport

iTrader: (6)

I guess they dont make much power, run sticky tyres or have much done to the suspension though?????

budd

iTrader: (5)

I guess when you break it down like that you won't be far off, there are unseen costs which tend not to be taken into account, good luck with the M3,

budd

iTrader: (5)

286 bhp limit, Toyo R888 control tyre, 1250 min weight, suspension is free so long as they are the same format (Mc strut) and stock pick up points remain, the main mods are safety related (cage, seat, fire system etc ) I'm aiming to put my '99 classic on the track for £3K, so for I've got the car, fitted a new clutch, MOT'd it, it as a full s/s exhaust inc equal length headers, VF29turbo and is making around the series power limit, up to now I've spent £1400 inc buying the car, I've got £1500 > £1600 to spend on a cage OMP bolt in £400, FAI seat £250, MSA Fire system £100, harness £120, then whats left on brakes and basic suspension (4 pots, pads, bushes and fat ARBs at this stage) it's going to be a close thing but at the moment I'm on budget just.

nicklouse10

Took the car to Knockhill last night.
4 mates from work were going so I tagged along for some passenger laps and there ended up being spare spaces on track so I couldn't resist a quick blat in the scoob

The car is superb! It's worlds apart from the old 944. It does exactly what I was hoping it would. I found myself for the first time actually overtaking people, and not just a few either! It has enough power to blow past Elises, M3's etc. I even overtook a Fezza! (albeit a 308 Dino)

very happy boy indeed

The brakes however... different story... they were comically bad. Everything you guys have said about the standard brakes was bang-on.

I was actually laughing at loud at one point at how poor they were. I also have a vibration under very hard braking that I couldn't feel on the road (never need to brake that hard on the road) which is probably warped disc(s)
they faded quite badly after about 7 laps (so I came off track after 2 cool down laps) and they were still smoking quite heavily when I stopped in the pits!

It was a bit of a shame really because with little confidence in the brakes I wasn't able to push the car to anything like it's limit. but hopefully this will be cured next week when the 4 pots arrive. Was still a fun night though and I came away with a massive smile on my face.

Because the car behaved so well, I'm going to reward it with another £100 on the brakes budget probably on higher spec pads and discs than I would have had to go for before

Track day costs for last night: £65 for the night (2hr session), £40 fuel, including getting to the track and back. not much on consumables seeing as the brakes are all getting binned anyway, and it cos it was damp and I wasn't hammering it, they tyres are barely scrubbed.

cheers
nick
PS, did I mention, scoobys are bloody awesome!

172sport

iTrader: (6)

Thats it now fella, your on the slippery slope