Performance Friction Brakes - Up to the job?
01 March 2007, 10:16 AM
#1
Performance Friction Brakes - Up to the job?
After having fried my Impreza brakes at Cadwell Park last October and then finally killed them at Snetterton in Dec, I needed to change my braking system.
Previous set up was:
OE impreza Brembo calipers and discs
Ferodo DS2500 pads all round
Braided Hoses
RBF600 Brake Fluid
Having toyed with ways to improve my braking system on the impreza from fitting AP 6 pots, AP 4 Pots, AP Strap drives, stoptech, big brakes kits from all and sundry.... I starting to investigate Performance Friction brakes discs and pads after chatting with Paul from Zen Performance about what could be done. Paul assured me that they would be up to the job for frequent track days, nurburgring laps and normal day to day driving.
Seeing as the OE Subaru discs had been ruined by carbon deposits left by boiling the Ferodo DS2500 fast road pads and effectively making them feel warped (they werent) I needed new discs and pads. At that stage I could have shelled out £1500 quid and gone AP but for less than replacement subaru discs I decided that the PF option had to be worth a go... so my order was placed with Zen Performance (Zen Performance - Performance upgrade solutions for Japanese cars) and they duly arrived the next day.
Fitting was easy (once you can undo the b'stard caliper bolts
) as they are a straight replacement for the OE discs and bedding in was started.
It is quite fun reading bedding in instructions that effectively say "stand on the brakes from 130mph a few times"
Anyway, duly bedded in ... cough cough, private road etc they were due to be tried out yesterday at Snetterton. Dan from Performance Friction and his race engineer were also there at hand to answer questions from me or anyone else looking to upgrade their brakes and were hoping that mine worked well for me.
Review of the Day:
==================
Obviously a wet and puddle ridden track first thing was not ideal for brake testing for the start of the day but towards lunch the track was drying out perfectly and stayed that way.
Rather than just say how good they were, I though a comparison would be better.
OE Disc/Std Pads:
- do 6 laps and scare myself silly on the big braking point down the straight as the pedal was not doing a lot => come in a nd cool the brakes down for 10 minutes then go out again.
OE Discs/DS2500 Experience:
- do around 10 laps in a go before starting to notice that the brakes were very hot and starting to judder (caused by the carbon deposits) and be forced to brake earlier and softer to cure or work around.
PF Discs / PF Z(.11/.10) rated pads:
- did a full session at pace standing on the brakes at every opportunity and kicking in the ABS lap after lap for a full session of 30 mins. Not once during this did they ever fade, get pad knock off or do anything other than slow me down. To some extent these will get some getting use to as they were scrubbing speed off so effectively that my entry speed into Richies was about 10 mph to slow, so will need to brake less. :whistle:
At the end of this session the Performance Friction race engineer heat gunned the discs to see what temperature they had got to and promptly said that I needed to get them Hotter !! 8) ie I needed to try harder
For anyone considering these discs and pads - I cannot rate them highly enough now. They work perfectly on the road but magically can cope with whatever I can throw at them on track with room to spare 8)
Thanks to Pavlo for pointing me in that direction and for Dan from PFC for help and assistance too....
Previous set up was:
OE impreza Brembo calipers and discs
Ferodo DS2500 pads all round
Braided Hoses
RBF600 Brake Fluid
Having toyed with ways to improve my braking system on the impreza from fitting AP 6 pots, AP 4 Pots, AP Strap drives, stoptech, big brakes kits from all and sundry.... I starting to investigate Performance Friction brakes discs and pads after chatting with Paul from Zen Performance about what could be done. Paul assured me that they would be up to the job for frequent track days, nurburgring laps and normal day to day driving.
Seeing as the OE Subaru discs had been ruined by carbon deposits left by boiling the Ferodo DS2500 fast road pads and effectively making them feel warped (they werent) I needed new discs and pads. At that stage I could have shelled out £1500 quid and gone AP but for less than replacement subaru discs I decided that the PF option had to be worth a go... so my order was placed with Zen Performance (Zen Performance - Performance upgrade solutions for Japanese cars) and they duly arrived the next day.
Fitting was easy (once you can undo the b'stard caliper bolts
) as they are a straight replacement for the OE discs and bedding in was started.It is quite fun reading bedding in instructions that effectively say "stand on the brakes from 130mph a few times"
Anyway, duly bedded in ... cough cough, private road etc
they were due to be tried out yesterday at Snetterton. Dan from Performance Friction and his race engineer were also there at hand to answer questions from me or anyone else looking to upgrade their brakes and were hoping that mine worked well for me.Review of the Day:
==================
Obviously a wet and puddle ridden track first thing was not ideal for brake testing for the start of the day but towards lunch the track was drying out perfectly and stayed that way.
Rather than just say how good they were, I though a comparison would be better.
OE Disc/Std Pads:
- do 6 laps and scare myself silly on the big braking point down the straight as the pedal was not doing a lot => come in a nd cool the brakes down for 10 minutes then go out again.
OE Discs/DS2500 Experience:
- do around 10 laps in a go before starting to notice that the brakes were very hot and starting to judder (caused by the carbon deposits) and be forced to brake earlier and softer to cure or work around.
PF Discs / PF Z(.11/.10) rated pads:
- did a full session at pace standing on the brakes at every opportunity and kicking in the ABS lap after lap for a full session of 30 mins. Not once during this did they ever fade, get pad knock off or do anything other than slow me down. To some extent these will get some getting use to as they were scrubbing speed off so effectively that my entry speed into Richies was about 10 mph to slow, so will need to brake less. :whistle:
At the end of this session the Performance Friction race engineer heat gunned the discs to see what temperature they had got to and promptly said that I needed to get them Hotter !! 8) ie I needed to try harder
For anyone considering these discs and pads - I cannot rate them highly enough now. They work perfectly on the road but magically can cope with whatever I can throw at them on track with room to spare 8)
Thanks to Pavlo for pointing me in that direction and for Dan from PFC for help and assistance too....
Last edited by dynamix; 01 March 2007 at 10:19 AM.
01 March 2007, 10:37 PM
#2
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Wow......great write up.
I contacted these guys before christmas and they told me they didnt have an application for my GC8 at the time.....which was a total shame, as i have driven on this same setup.....the totally transform the car and its braking capabilities, they are absolutly perfect for what i require, fast road and trackday use.
Do you know if they do them for the GC8 chassis yet?
It doesnt really matter i suppose (to me anyway), as i am going to purchase an 05 sti april time, so i will look into buying these then.
Dynamix, how many laps did you acheive with these on?
I contacted these guys before christmas and they told me they didnt have an application for my GC8 at the time.....which was a total shame, as i have driven on this same setup.....the totally transform the car and its braking capabilities, they are absolutly perfect for what i require, fast road and trackday use.
Do you know if they do them for the GC8 chassis yet?
It doesnt really matter i suppose (to me anyway), as i am going to purchase an 05 sti april time, so i will look into buying these then.
Dynamix, how many laps did you acheive with these on?
01 March 2007, 10:39 PM
#3
I did 100 laps ish yesterday and they just got better and better
I am pretty sure they do a GC8 set up and may well put together a group buy for them if enough people are interested from here and from bigpower.co.uk
Anyone considering AP 6 pots or 4 pots ... save yourself a £1000 and get these
I am pretty sure they do a GC8 set up and may well put together a group buy for them if enough people are interested from here and from bigpower.co.uk
Anyone considering AP 6 pots or 4 pots ... save yourself a £1000 and get these
01 March 2007, 10:43 PM
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100 laps!!!!.....man, they took some stick then, and they are still ok after all that punishment?
Impressive stuff, i know the EVO drivers really rate these, and of course the car i drove, i can see why.
Impressive stuff, i know the EVO drivers really rate these, and of course the car i drove, i can see why.
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04 March 2007, 03:02 AM
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I was having a look around, and the ap replacement discs are around the 200 quid mark.......this is for a full on race disc, and with a compound suited for the discs.....this could be one hell of a set-up, litterally make you gums bleed time!
04 March 2007, 03:11 AM
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04 March 2007, 10:37 AM
#16
I've had PF discs/pad combination for about five months now....i agree with the above coments re. how they perform
Have you had any pad knock when reversing, going forwards again and braking??
Have you had any pad knock when reversing, going forwards again and braking??
17 July 2007, 07:55 AM
#22
Discs and Pads have now done 16000 miles including 3 track days and 18 laps of the Ring.
Yesterday at Cadwell was to be the big test for them and I can proudly say that they passed with flying colours
I spoke to Dan from Performance Friction the night before and must admit that I was a little dubious that they would be able to cope having gained a slight braking judder on the road with easy braking - this disappeared through a proper re-bedding in on track during the familiarisation laps.
They coped with several long stints perfectly, only fading slightly once in a 15 lap stiint
which made me overshoot the hairpin a tad but always hauling me to the correct speed for Park curve and Mansfield despite carrying extra speed from the previous corners with Maxx's help.
The pads still have about 6mm of material left on them too, so good for a few more miles still too 8)
Yesterday at Cadwell was to be the big test for them and I can proudly say that they passed with flying colours
I spoke to Dan from Performance Friction the night before and must admit that I was a little dubious that they would be able to cope having gained a slight braking judder on the road with easy braking - this disappeared through a proper re-bedding in on track during the familiarisation laps.
They coped with several long stints perfectly, only fading slightly once in a 15 lap stiint
which made me overshoot the hairpin a tad but always hauling me to the correct speed for Park curve and Mansfield despite carrying extra speed from the previous corners with Maxx's help.The pads still have about 6mm of material left on them too, so good for a few more miles still too 8)
17 July 2007, 09:42 AM
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Great write up!
Cadwell is notoriously hard on brakes, there must be at least 4-5 heavy braking points there.
I'm totally amazed their fast road pad holds up to that sort of abuse!
I suppose the ambient temperature was pretty warm yesterday.
I bet a bit of cooling could have maybe seen you get a few more laps in on that stint
You must have been kanckered....16 lap stint of cadders!
Cadwell is notoriously hard on brakes, there must be at least 4-5 heavy braking points there.
I'm totally amazed their fast road pad holds up to that sort of abuse!
I suppose the ambient temperature was pretty warm yesterday.
I bet a bit of cooling could have maybe seen you get a few more laps in on that stint
You must have been kanckered....16 lap stint of cadders!
17 July 2007, 10:12 AM
#26
Great write up!
Cadwell is notoriously hard on brakes, there must be at least 4-5 heavy braking points there.
I'm totally amazed their fast road pad holds up to that sort of abuse!
I suppose the ambient temperature was pretty warm yesterday.
I bet a bit of cooling could have maybe seen you get a few more laps in on that stint
You must have been kanckered....16 lap stint of cadders!
Cadwell is notoriously hard on brakes, there must be at least 4-5 heavy braking points there.
I'm totally amazed their fast road pad holds up to that sort of abuse!
I suppose the ambient temperature was pretty warm yesterday.
I bet a bit of cooling could have maybe seen you get a few more laps in on that stint
You must have been kanckered....16 lap stint of cadders!
Cadwell killed my old set up in about 8 laps using DS2500 pads on OE discs. the uneven carbon deposits created a massive judder under heaving braking at all of the points. These didnt and coped with longer sessions too (and more speed)
17 July 2007, 10:54 AM
#28
Not a lot.
First set of RE070's did 16000 miles including 5 track days, a drift night and a ring trip - still 2mm of tread left
Second Set of RE070's have done 14000 including 18 laps of the Ring and still around 4 mm of tread on most.
These A048's should last this year.
First set of RE070's did 16000 miles including 5 track days, a drift night and a ring trip - still 2mm of tread left
Second Set of RE070's have done 14000 including 18 laps of the Ring and still around 4 mm of tread on most.
These A048's should last this year.
17 July 2007, 12:14 PM
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Are you using the A048's for road use too? If so how noisey are they and what size / compound do you have?
Cheers
Cheers