AP 6-Pots / Godspeed 335 Discs: 17" OZ Superturismo Clearance Issue
29 October 2006, 08:19 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AP 6-Pots / Godspeed 335 Discs: 17" OZ Superturismo Clearance Issue
I'd never have imagined that my 17" OZ Superturismos would've caught on the AP 6-Pot/Godspeed 335 kit. I thought i had it sussed after shuffling some nuisance weights aound but spinning the wheel results in the caliper shaving the tiniest amount of powder coat from the insides of the spokes. 
I don't want to find out what happens when the caliper heats up and the kit isn't coming off as i've bled the calipers through with Castrol SRF.
I have 18's i can fit but they need new tyres and after forking out for the GSD3's on the Superturismos last Thursday i'm don't much fancy heading back to the tyre fitters lol.
Wheel spacers aren't really my bag but i want to find out if it's a route many others have followed before? 1mm spacers would do the job but these don't seem to be widely available. Does anyone have any similar stories of woe? Prefereably with happy endings.
I don't want to find out what happens when the caliper heats up and the kit isn't coming off as i've bled the calipers through with Castrol SRF.I have 18's i can fit but they need new tyres and after forking out for the GSD3's on the Superturismos last Thursday i'm don't much fancy heading back to the tyre fitters lol.
Wheel spacers aren't really my bag but i want to find out if it's a route many others have followed before? 1mm spacers would do the job but these don't seem to be widely available. Does anyone have any similar stories of woe? Prefereably with happy endings.
29 October 2006, 08:39 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Scoobless :(
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey carl
You should pm playsatan. We tried to fit his today and his are having issues too with clearance. I did tell him it is because Godspeed supplied the 7040 caliper instead of the 5555 caliper.
Stuart
You should pm playsatan. We tried to fit his today and his are having issues too with clearance. I did tell him it is because Godspeed supplied the 7040 caliper instead of the 5555 caliper.
Stuart
29 October 2006, 08:48 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point Colin this way then Stuart. Is he still on the 17" Rays?
Am currently thinking about borrowing a Superleggera to see if it clears the caliper. If so i can buy four of those, fit the GSD3s from the Superturismos and then sell the (newly refurbished!) Superturismos.
I'm just absolutely loathe to use wheel shims or remove the calipers. Luckily i don't need the car.
Am currently thinking about borrowing a Superleggera to see if it clears the caliper. If so i can buy four of those, fit the GSD3s from the Superturismos and then sell the (newly refurbished!) Superturismos.
I'm just absolutely loathe to use wheel shims or remove the calipers. Luckily i don't need the car.
29 October 2006, 09:38 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely Ian G would be best suited to answer this one, but I know (cos we were instrumental in developing the 7040 AP caliper), that it's actually slimmer than the (enormous) 5555 caliper.
You may have been better off all round, (financially, and performance wise) if you had bit the bullet and gone for a "proper" AP kit?
The AP 330mm 6 pot kit will clear without problems on OZ Super T's.
Mike.
You may have been better off all round, (financially, and performance wise) if you had bit the bullet and gone for a "proper" AP kit?
The AP 330mm 6 pot kit will clear without problems on OZ Super T's.
Mike.
29 October 2006, 10:46 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Mike, long time no speak. It wasn't so much a case of biting the bullet and going for the AP kit but rather Ians discs seemed the best option at the time.
I assume the 'proper' AP kit has a deeper bell and thicker mounting bracket to move the disc/caliper further away from the wheel? There can't be much in it though as Ians set up leaves the disc pretty close to the track rod ends.
Either way Colin (Playsatan) is using the 330mm AP discs and is still having trouble.
I assume the 'proper' AP kit has a deeper bell and thicker mounting bracket to move the disc/caliper further away from the wheel? There can't be much in it though as Ians set up leaves the disc pretty close to the track rod ends.
Either way Colin (Playsatan) is using the 330mm AP discs and is still having trouble.
29 October 2006, 10:55 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Scoobless :(
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that my 'proper' AP 330mm kit with the 5555 caliper never had any clearance issues but it looks like with his 17" rays he will need something in the order of a 5mm spacer to sort the issue. Also the brackets required shimming to make sure the caliper stayed true to the rotation of the disc, something i never came across either!
29 October 2006, 11:03 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You may be onto something there Stuart. If there's sufficient leeway i could possibly shim the caliper mounting bracket from the hub to clear the wheels. Will check in the morning... can see a few hours on the lathe comig up!
Trending Topics
29 October 2006, 11:13 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The thing is the caliper only needs to clear the wheels by <1mm... seems pointless buying spacers although i have grown to the idea of trying some Superleggeras. 
Have emailed Ian anyway, be good to hear his views as i don't think he can log on here anymore.
Have emailed Ian anyway, be good to hear his views as i don't think he can log on here anymore.
30 October 2006, 09:59 AM
#10
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turns out the bracket is supposed to be shimmed from the hub to clear the wheels, that's what the washer come 'spacer' in the kit is for. Silly me thought it was a washer. 
30 October 2006, 11:12 AM
#12
Carl - if you need to try a set of Superleggeras then you can use the ones at my place?
From what I remember from the last few kits I got from Ian, you used the spacers provided to shim the caliper to clear the outer rim of the disc and to align the caliper with the centre of the disc. there was (on my kits) a recess on the mounting plare that ensure the plate sat on the hub mounting points.maybe he has changed the design ( I know he changed his hub/disc design about 18 months ago).
Is the issues solved now with the kit? I am disappointed enough with the hassle I had to go through to get the kits in the first place ie, false DELIVERY DATES, ETC, I am scared to go home and fit mine now!
I hope this works out in the end because to be honest..his kits are very good quality for a fraction of the real AP cost.
I thought the 5555 wouldn't accomodate the 32mm disk of Ians? email Ian to get a response and see what he says (cc me on it so we have evidence).
Russell
From what I remember from the last few kits I got from Ian, you used the spacers provided to shim the caliper to clear the outer rim of the disc and to align the caliper with the centre of the disc. there was (on my kits) a recess on the mounting plare that ensure the plate sat on the hub mounting points.maybe he has changed the design ( I know he changed his hub/disc design about 18 months ago).
Is the issues solved now with the kit? I am disappointed enough with the hassle I had to go through to get the kits in the first place ie, false DELIVERY DATES, ETC, I am scared to go home and fit mine now!
I hope this works out in the end because to be honest..his kits are very good quality for a fraction of the real AP cost.
I thought the 5555 wouldn't accomodate the 32mm disk of Ians? email Ian to get a response and see what he says (cc me on it so we have evidence).
Russell
Last edited by WUZ; 30 October 2006 at 12:10 PM.
30 October 2006, 11:22 AM
#13
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes it was Ian who replied to my email confirming my suspicions that the mounting bracket does indeed need to be shimmed from the hub using the washers. I'm 100% positive that will fix the issue although if i hadn't missed the instructions (allegedly hidden under layers of brown tape) i would've had them finished last night.
Have to agree with the quality of Ians kit. Shame the ally bits aren't anodised but other than that and the i can't grumble.
Have to agree with the quality of Ians kit. Shame the ally bits aren't anodised but other than that and the i can't grumble.
30 October 2006, 12:20 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok Ian mailed me the instructions as mine must've gone missing in the post.
Mine are fine now with the washers relocated. Just off out for a drive, will post pictures after.
AP 6 pot caliper kits fitting instructions
Jack up the car and rest it on axle stands , remove the wheel , clamp the brake fluid hose off , and remove the hose from the caliper , remove the caliper and discs from the car , remove the heat shield which is held on by 3 bolts , on early models you will have to remove the ABS sensor to get the heat shield off , refit the sensor one the shield has been taken off.
Clean off the hub face and the back face of the caliper mounting lugs on the hubs with WD40 and emery cloth , these faces must be clean of all rust and road muck.
Fit the caliper bracket onto the hub assembly with the bolts supplied , the brackets fit onto the back side of the lugs , not the front where the old calipers fitted , as there seems to be a variation in hubs , you may have to shim the brackets away from this face to centralise the calipers and discs with each other.If so use the washer supplied
Fit the disc on , hold it in place with a few wheel nuts , fit the caliper onto the bracket with the bolts supplied making sure the bleed nipples are at the top , fit the pipe onto the calipers and bleed , check for any leaks , and any metal the metal contact BEFORE driving the car.
Jack up the car and rest it on axle stands , remove the wheel , clamp the brake fluid hose off , and remove the hose from the caliper , remove the caliper and discs from the car , remove the heat shield which is held on by 3 bolts , on early models you will have to remove the ABS sensor to get the heat shield off , refit the sensor one the shield has been taken off.
Clean off the hub face and the back face of the caliper mounting lugs on the hubs with WD40 and emery cloth , these faces must be clean of all rust and road muck.
Fit the caliper bracket onto the hub assembly with the bolts supplied , the brackets fit onto the back side of the lugs , not the front where the old calipers fitted , as there seems to be a variation in hubs , you may have to shim the brackets away from this face to centralise the calipers and discs with each other.If so use the washer supplied
Fit the disc on , hold it in place with a few wheel nuts , fit the caliper onto the bracket with the bolts supplied making sure the bleed nipples are at the top , fit the pipe onto the calipers and bleed , check for any leaks , and any metal the metal contact BEFORE driving the car.
02 November 2006, 11:10 AM
#22
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jasonius asked me for my thoughts on the Godspeed kit via PM the other day, i went on at length but feel the info is worth posting - particularly the weights at the end.
but feel the info is worth posting - particularly the weights at the end.
I don't know what it is with people seeing the Godspeed kit as a cop-out price wise. We had the choice of buying the kit through Ian Godney (Godspeed) with the following options:
£1250 - AP 6-Pots, DS25000 Pads, Godspeed 335mm Discs, Godspeed Bells/Brackets, Braided Lines.
£1300 - AP 6-Pots, DS25000 Pads, AP 330mm Discs, Godspeed Bells/Brackets, Braided Lines.
I chose the Godspeed discs as he offers a 12 month warranty and they're a tad bigger. I'd also heard of people warping the AP discs so that was a further reason to use the Godspeed ones. I also didn't need the braided lines so paid £1200 for everything delivered.
It's worth adding that for that price fluid wasn't included. I bought some Castrol SRF but it isn't cheap at £37 so bought some of the cheaper Castrol stuff to do the initial bleeding with.
I haven't put any hard miles on the brakes yet as i'm going to run them in for the first couple of hundred miles. I also still need to bleed the SRF through to the rears as my assistant/girlfriend has been working shifts since we came unstuck on Sunday evening.
My initial impressions are that pedal feel is definitely improved although this could be partially attributed to the bleeding/fresh fluid. I haven't had them fade yet either although as i've said, i've yet to give them some real stick. They replaced the OEM 4-pots, Tar-Ox discs and unknown pads. As said i already had braided lines all round.
Almost forgot about the weights (very approximate):
OEM 4-Pot (worn pads fitted) - 5.5kg
OEM Disc (worn) - 6.0kg
Total - 23.0kg
AP 6-Pots (new pads fitted) - 5.0kg
335mm Disc (new) - 9.0kg
Total - 28.0kg
£1250 - AP 6-Pots, DS25000 Pads, Godspeed 335mm Discs, Godspeed Bells/Brackets, Braided Lines.
£1300 - AP 6-Pots, DS25000 Pads, AP 330mm Discs, Godspeed Bells/Brackets, Braided Lines.
I chose the Godspeed discs as he offers a 12 month warranty and they're a tad bigger. I'd also heard of people warping the AP discs so that was a further reason to use the Godspeed ones. I also didn't need the braided lines so paid £1200 for everything delivered.
It's worth adding that for that price fluid wasn't included. I bought some Castrol SRF but it isn't cheap at £37 so bought some of the cheaper Castrol stuff to do the initial bleeding with.
I haven't put any hard miles on the brakes yet as i'm going to run them in for the first couple of hundred miles. I also still need to bleed the SRF through to the rears as my assistant/girlfriend has been working shifts since we came unstuck on Sunday evening.
My initial impressions are that pedal feel is definitely improved although this could be partially attributed to the bleeding/fresh fluid. I haven't had them fade yet either although as i've said, i've yet to give them some real stick. They replaced the OEM 4-pots, Tar-Ox discs and unknown pads. As said i already had braided lines all round.
Almost forgot about the weights (very approximate):
OEM 4-Pot (worn pads fitted) - 5.5kg
OEM Disc (worn) - 6.0kg
Total - 23.0kg
AP 6-Pots (new pads fitted) - 5.0kg
335mm Disc (new) - 9.0kg
Total - 28.0kg
02 November 2006, 08:37 PM
#23
Not as bad an increase in terms of unsprung weight when you consider the increase in stopping ability! add about 0.4 of a kg for the missing metal and there is only around 4.6 kg difference but the disc is LOADS bigger.
Russell
ps - get them bedding in.......then try them out........you'll be happier then!
Russell
ps - get them bedding in.......then try them out........you'll be happier then!
02 November 2006, 08:45 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh i'm definitely happy Russ, reminds me i never thanked you for sorting the deal out with Ian. 
I'd trade the 4.5kg for the extra braking force any day.
Just been round all for corners tonight to flush the SRF through to the rears and double-check the fronts. Everything seems good so i'm going start using them properly now i've put a couple of hundred miles on them.
I'd trade the 4.5kg for the extra braking force any day. Just been round all for corners tonight to flush the SRF through to the rears and double-check the fronts. Everything seems good so i'm going start using them properly now i've put a couple of hundred miles on them.
02 November 2006, 10:03 PM
#25
Right - before you go ape on the anchors.......consider a 4-point under brace.
Stopped the wheels "splaying out" under braking and kinda calms down the rear end which gets VERY light under hard braking!
Best thing I did.............................apart from the 2.33, turbo, suspension........................................ .................................................. .................................you know the rest!
Russell
Stopped the wheels "splaying out" under braking and kinda calms down the rear end which gets VERY light under hard braking!
Best thing I did.............................apart from the 2.33, turbo, suspension........................................ .................................................. .................................you know the rest!
Russell
02 November 2006, 11:44 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's more on my website but i'm not allowed to post links there anymore.
Last edited by Carl Davey; 02 November 2006 at 11:49 PM.
28 November 2006, 12:04 AM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wellingborough
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi huys in the process of designing machining brackets, bells up for some old cp5555 that i have had knocking around the garage for ages. The caliper mount i have designed mounts off the front of the upright as per 0.E caliper. I realise it can be done either way but wondered if there were any advantages of doing it one way or the other ?
28 November 2006, 08:35 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The mount has to bolt up on the rear (opposite from OE) of the hub due to the positioning of the disc and the thickness of the caliper. If you don't have any discs yet i'd wait until you do and work from them.
28 November 2006, 11:00 AM
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wellingborough
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the discs carl 330mm 28mm have machined the bell up and attached the disc and have it attached to a hub and upright. It's bolted upto a spec c rim i'm going to use and the cp5555 caliper is sitting over the disc. I'm looking good clearence wise everywhere about 5mm from the inside of the spoke with the caliper. I still think i have enough room to mount the caliper either way off the front of the upright( although it is tighter) or the rear. My line of thinking was that this would be better wat to go as it looks to be the nicer machined surface and it's the way the subaru calipers mount.
Cheers Liam
P.S That's a lovely motor you've got there carl a proper working tool no show pony ****e !!
Cheers Liam
P.S That's a lovely motor you've got there carl a proper working tool no show pony ****e !!
Last edited by finchyboy; 28 November 2006 at 11:05 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Phil3822
General Technical
0
30 September 2015 06:29 PM
