ON TEST: EBC YellowStuff 'R' Compound - Courtesy of www.mocomracing.com
19 April 2005, 12:35 PM
#1
ON TEST: EBC YellowStuff 'R' Compound - Courtesy of www.mocomracing.com
Following my dissapointment over EBC Ceramics Pads I was offered to evaluate the new EBC YellowStuff 'R' (1793) Compound by www.mocomracing.com 
They were NOT the retailers who sold me the EBC Ceramics, so it was very kind of them to offer me these pads free of charge.
So on this thread I will be evaluating this new compound which is said to last as much as 3 times longer than the Ceramics and with zero rotor damage:
"The Ultimate Race Brake Pad for Highly Tuned Cars on both Street and Track
Although a full race material and capable of high temperature use with very good wear life, this new formulation sets a new trend in race type brake pad compounds. The “bite” from cold is superb which is uncommon with race materials (normally requiring warm-up) and makes this a pad which can be safely used on the highway as well as on the race track. This new formulation was used by numerous championship race and rally drivers in 2004 and is truly a milestone in brake pad material development.
Nominal friction coefficient 0.46 with zero rotor damage and low dust."
************
The Setup: New EBC Turbo Grooved Discs + EBC YellowStuff 'R' Pads + Goodridge Brake lines + Dot5.1 Brake Fluid
The Car: Modified MY99/00 (352bhp) with std 4-pot calipers
Mileage: 62k
Useage: Daily Driver + Possibly a Track Day
What I'm looking for: Good road pads that can be used under hard conditions & on track. Is also important that they last for 1 year (on the road with average miles).
************
16.04.05 - Received the pads. 1st thoughts, the box states that:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...BOB/EBCBox.jpg
but the pads dont seem to have any 'Brake in Surface Coating':
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...OB/EBCPads.jpg
Maybe EBC are using the same boxes for all their pads?
The instructions on a slip inside the box state "This material is RACE ONLY material NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE' Now thats a little different from the EBC Marketing:
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Automotive.html
Anyway fitted them anyhow, along with the new discs. Also serviced the calipers.
Now for the running in mileage (200miles)
************
18.04.05 - Running in mileage done with mixed driving conditions (300miles+). Initial thoughts are that the pads dont appear to be to abrasive on the discs. Cold braking is excellent. No noise. Upon hard braking the discs are a little noisey with the grooves.
Later in the evening went out for some 'hard' driving and found the brakes spot on and very predictable. Was stopping from 120-140mph with no probs for around 6-7 stops and then had some brake fade when they were really hot. Upon stopping at a service station (making sure not to stand on the the brakes when stationary) I found them to be smoking slightly. Was a bit annoyed at getting brake fade as up until then the brakes had performed brilliantly on the road.
Will investigate and eliminate the possibility of the brake fluid needing a full change. I let as much of the fluid to drain out of the front lines overnight, when I changed the brakes. The fluid was completely changed in summer last year (with Ferrodo 5.1) and topped up with fresh fluid this time (around 2 ltrs).
Verdict so far: Good initial bite when cold and very confident braking from high speed. No noise from pads. Very little brake dust. Dissapointed with fade under hard useage.
Bob
They were NOT the retailers who sold me the EBC Ceramics, so it was very kind of them to offer me these pads free of charge.So on this thread I will be evaluating this new compound which is said to last as much as 3 times longer than the Ceramics and with zero rotor damage:
"The Ultimate Race Brake Pad for Highly Tuned Cars on both Street and Track
Although a full race material and capable of high temperature use with very good wear life, this new formulation sets a new trend in race type brake pad compounds. The “bite” from cold is superb which is uncommon with race materials (normally requiring warm-up) and makes this a pad which can be safely used on the highway as well as on the race track. This new formulation was used by numerous championship race and rally drivers in 2004 and is truly a milestone in brake pad material development.
Nominal friction coefficient 0.46 with zero rotor damage and low dust."
************
The Setup: New EBC Turbo Grooved Discs + EBC YellowStuff 'R' Pads + Goodridge Brake lines + Dot5.1 Brake Fluid
The Car: Modified MY99/00 (352bhp) with std 4-pot calipers
Mileage: 62k
Useage: Daily Driver + Possibly a Track Day
What I'm looking for: Good road pads that can be used under hard conditions & on track. Is also important that they last for 1 year (on the road with average miles).
************
16.04.05 - Received the pads. 1st thoughts, the box states that:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...BOB/EBCBox.jpg
but the pads dont seem to have any 'Brake in Surface Coating':
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...OB/EBCPads.jpg
Maybe EBC are using the same boxes for all their pads?
The instructions on a slip inside the box state "This material is RACE ONLY material NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE' Now thats a little different from the EBC Marketing:
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Automotive.html
Anyway fitted them anyhow, along with the new discs. Also serviced the calipers.
Now for the running in mileage (200miles)
************
18.04.05 - Running in mileage done with mixed driving conditions (300miles+). Initial thoughts are that the pads dont appear to be to abrasive on the discs. Cold braking is excellent. No noise. Upon hard braking the discs are a little noisey with the grooves.
Later in the evening went out for some 'hard' driving and found the brakes spot on and very predictable. Was stopping from 120-140mph with no probs for around 6-7 stops and then had some brake fade when they were really hot. Upon stopping at a service station (making sure not to stand on the the brakes when stationary) I found them to be smoking slightly. Was a bit annoyed at getting brake fade as up until then the brakes had performed brilliantly on the road.
Will investigate and eliminate the possibility of the brake fluid needing a full change. I let as much of the fluid to drain out of the front lines overnight, when I changed the brakes. The fluid was completely changed in summer last year (with Ferrodo 5.1) and topped up with fresh fluid this time (around 2 ltrs).
Verdict so far: Good initial bite when cold and very confident braking from high speed. No noise from pads. Very little brake dust. Dissapointed with fade under hard useage.
Bob
20 April 2005, 12:17 PM
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BOB'5 Opinion?
Makes interesting reading this, as I have just bought a set of yellows for my AP discs.
Says in the instructions to clean the disc of old pad material (M1144 in my case) with wire wool or even better a skim?
Have you ever bothered doing this when changing between pads? Dont want judder to occur as the discs are quite new, and skim? No way. Would rather leave the M1144's on as they are only 25% worn.
Thoughts would be appreciated as I had judder on my last set of discs which I had to replace (M1144 only) & dont want it again!
Cheers, Daz
Says in the instructions to clean the disc of old pad material (M1144 in my case) with wire wool or even better a skim?
Have you ever bothered doing this when changing between pads? Dont want judder to occur as the discs are quite new, and skim? No way. Would rather leave the M1144's on as they are only 25% worn.
Thoughts would be appreciated as I had judder on my last set of discs which I had to replace (M1144 only) & dont want it again!
Cheers, Daz
Last edited by dazc; 20 April 2005 at 12:20 PM.
20 April 2005, 12:26 PM
#5
Originally Posted by dazc
Makes interesting reading this, as I have just bought a set of yellows for my AP discs.
Says in the instructions to clean the disc of old pad material (M1144 in my case) with wire wool or even better a skim?
Have you ever bothered doing this when changing between pads? Dont want judder to occur as the discs are quite new, and skim? No way. Would rather leave the M1144's on as they are only 25% worn.
Thoughts would be appreciated as I had judder on my last set of discs which I had to replace (M1144 only) & dont want it again!
Cheers, Daz
Says in the instructions to clean the disc of old pad material (M1144 in my case) with wire wool or even better a skim?
Have you ever bothered doing this when changing between pads? Dont want judder to occur as the discs are quite new, and skim? No way. Would rather leave the M1144's on as they are only 25% worn.
Thoughts would be appreciated as I had judder on my last set of discs which I had to replace (M1144 only) & dont want it again!
Cheers, Daz
Worth trying to get to the bottom of the judder problem too:
1. Service your calipers (easy enough to do).
2. clean hub before re-fitting discs
3. Ensure wheels are balanced with no buldges on tyres
4. Check tracking.
Bob
20 April 2005, 01:40 PM
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They are the old compound? yellow stuff painted black. Any good?
New discs are fine now, it was the old ones that had the judder. Just didn't want it to happen again.
New discs are fine now, it was the old ones that had the judder. Just didn't want it to happen again.
Originally Posted by BOB'5
Make sure they are the new compound (ie they are painted yellow). I would get the discs freshly skimmed. TBH I have never changed pads without changing discs too, but I'm just fussy. A skim will do.
Worth trying to get to the bottom of the judder problem too:
1. Service your calipers (easy enough to do).
2. clean hub before re-fitting discs
3. Ensure wheels are balanced with no buldges on tyres
4. Check tracking.
Bob
Worth trying to get to the bottom of the judder problem too:
1. Service your calipers (easy enough to do).
2. clean hub before re-fitting discs
3. Ensure wheels are balanced with no buldges on tyres
4. Check tracking.
Bob
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20 April 2005, 02:04 PM
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Probably a result of trying to get the best of both worlds maybe?
Will hang fire on them for now until I'm convinced, was going to use them for road too, but maybe not now. Plus I don't really want to skim my discs!
Cheers, Daz
Will hang fire on them for now until I'm convinced, was going to use them for road too, but maybe not now. Plus I don't really want to skim my discs!
Cheers, Daz
Originally Posted by BOB'5
Should be. Havent tried them. Mind you this new compound is supposed to be aswell but I've already had fade.
Bob
Bob
20 April 2005, 09:27 PM
#11
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when changing materials (mainly from brand to brand rather than just within the same range!!), then it is best to 'scour' the disc with some very fine wet n dry, etc.circular motions across the whole surface front and rear.................would never skim a good discs personally!!
alyn
alyn
21 April 2005, 09:54 AM
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Interesting.
I bought EBC yellows for the rear after talking to the "UK distributor" They came in the same box as yours (well, same instructions anyway) but are black.
No noise at all and work well, so I assumed they are the new ones? The I thought the old yellows squealed??
I bought EBC yellows for the rear after talking to the "UK distributor" They came in the same box as yours (well, same instructions anyway) but are black.
No noise at all and work well, so I assumed they are the new ones? The I thought the old yellows squealed??
21 April 2005, 12:57 PM
#16
Well AFAIK it's only now that the new compound has changed to 1793 'R', that it is being recommended for road use.
There are a few EBC distributors on the forum and no doubt watching the thread, so they should be able to confirm.
Bob
There are a few EBC distributors on the forum and no doubt watching the thread, so they should be able to confirm.
Bob
21 April 2005, 01:42 PM
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...maybe they can send me a set of pads to test at the ring then, and I'll see how may laps they remain effective for.
While I would love to run "cheap" race pads, I am very much of the opinion that there is no such thing.
While I would love to run "cheap" race pads, I am very much of the opinion that there is no such thing.
21 April 2005, 09:20 PM
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It will be interesting to see what happens in the longer term. I am disappointed with the life of Redstuff pads. Now used 2 sets of fronts first with Black Diamond discs then with EBC and got 12000 miles per set. Also put them on the back, admittedly with original discs and only got 22000. I find they badly score the discs as well.
The EBC claim for the Yellowstuff "last as much as 3 times longer than the Ceramics and with zero rotor damage" seems a bit too good to be true - do they stop the car as well? If the discs don't wear and the pads don't, what does?
Graham
The EBC claim for the Yellowstuff "last as much as 3 times longer than the Ceramics and with zero rotor damage" seems a bit too good to be true - do they stop the car as well? If the discs don't wear and the pads don't, what does?
Graham
24 April 2005, 04:03 PM
#20
Originally Posted by grahamfrary
It will be interesting to see what happens in the longer term.
The EBC claim for the Yellowstuff "last as much as 3 times longer than the Ceramics and with zero rotor damage" seems a bit too good to be true - do they stop the car as well? If the discs don't wear and the pads don't, what does?
Graham
The EBC claim for the Yellowstuff "last as much as 3 times longer than the Ceramics and with zero rotor damage" seems a bit too good to be true - do they stop the car as well? If the discs don't wear and the pads don't, what does?
Graham
Bob
24 April 2005, 04:26 PM
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i have just changed from the old redstuffs (non ceramic 
) which were fitted to 2 pot calipers, to the newer ceramics
i have had the old versions smoking and groaning under serious abuse, i did not have full blown fade, but they pedal feel was all "wrong" so i backed off, pedal had to travel much further to stop the car, i put thye groaning down to the pads disintergrating with the disc grooves
i have not pushed the redstuff ceramics hard yet as they were only fitted 2 weeks back, but they do seam to work a lot better from cold then then the older versions. to be fair the old redstuff pads lasted twice as long as the standerd pads i was useing (why fit a 276ps engine in a car with 2 pot callipers )
i always thought the yellows were unsuitible for road use tbh, i will follow this thread, i did enjoy johns redstuff thread a while back
) which were fitted to 2 pot calipers, to the newer ceramicsi have had the old versions smoking and groaning under serious abuse, i did not have full blown fade, but they pedal feel was all "wrong" so i backed off, pedal had to travel much further to stop the car, i put thye groaning down to the pads disintergrating with the disc grooves
i have not pushed the redstuff ceramics hard yet as they were only fitted 2 weeks back, but they do seam to work a lot better from cold then then the older versions. to be fair the old redstuff pads lasted twice as long as the standerd pads i was useing (why fit a 276ps engine in a car with 2 pot callipers
)i always thought the yellows were unsuitible for road use tbh, i will follow this thread, i did enjoy johns redstuff thread a while back
29 April 2005, 04:08 PM
#22
Sticky: It was the lifespan of the EBC Ceramics that pi$$ed me off. It would seem that I'm not the only one to get very little mileage out of them.
Have yet to eliminate the possibility of the fluid causing fade...although it shouldn;t as it is quite fresh.
Bob
Have yet to eliminate the possibility of the fluid causing fade...although it shouldn;t as it is quite fresh.
Bob
29 April 2005, 08:42 PM
#23
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in very general terma, its quite easy to differentiate "system fade" caused by fluid overheating, etc. and "pad fade" caused by the material over heating................
with "system fade" you get a longer and more spongy pedal (eventually going to the floor if you ignore the warning signs!!)
with "pad fade" you get a harder and stiffer pedal with no retardation................
hope this helps
alyn
with "system fade" you get a longer and more spongy pedal (eventually going to the floor if you ignore the warning signs!!)
with "pad fade" you get a harder and stiffer pedal with no retardation................
hope this helps
alyn
04 May 2005, 06:06 PM
#24
Cheers Alyn will keep an eye out for it next time. Will get the fluid tested anyhow.
The whining noise has now gone so I presume it was just the discs/pads settling in.
Done around 1500miles now and the brakes feel nice and confident.
Not sure when I will next be able to push it hard enough to get the same conditions as when I had the 'fade'....but I will try my best in the interests of the test
Bob
The whining noise has now gone so I presume it was just the discs/pads settling in.
Done around 1500miles now and the brakes feel nice and confident.
Not sure when I will next be able to push it hard enough to get the same conditions as when I had the 'fade'....but I will try my best in the interests of the test
Bob
06 June 2005, 12:56 AM
#25
Alyn: Got the fade again tonight. One stop was ok, so to was the second and then the third made me almost $hit myself.
Sounds like pad fade as the pedal just goes all hard and v difficult to push down on it.
Would really be interested to hear any views from EBC distributors as to why EBC track pads fade so easily on the road?
Bob
Sounds like pad fade as the pedal just goes all hard and v difficult to push down on it.
Would really be interested to hear any views from EBC distributors as to why EBC track pads fade so easily on the road?
Bob
15 June 2005, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BOB'5
No comment from any EBC distributors???
EBCs 'trackpads' fading easily with road use?
Come on Buck.
EBCs 'trackpads' fading easily with road use?
Come on Buck.
Despite this, I did send EBC Technical an email, with a link, to view your thread some time ago.
EBC would be in a better technical position then I to solve your problem.
Regards
Buck
15 June 2005, 03:48 PM
#28
Originally Posted by Buckrogers
I am surprised you are asking me, after some of your posts on some of my threads.
Despite this, I did send EBC Technical an email, with a link, to view your thread some time ago.
EBC would be in a better technical position then I to solve your problem.
Regards
Buck
Despite this, I did send EBC Technical an email, with a link, to view your thread some time ago.
EBC would be in a better technical position then I to solve your problem.
Regards
Buck
No offence was meant. Just dont want the SN community to make the same mistakes as me with regards to EBC products.
The pads cost me nothing but I still feel short changed having brake fade on the road. May well have to change them over for Ferrodos or Pagids when I get a chance.
I'll just give EBC tech a call and see what they say.
Bob
Bob
15 June 2005, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BOB'5
Just dont want the SN community to make the same mistakes as me with regards to EBC products.
15 June 2005, 09:40 PM
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pads
Bob you seemed to be hounding Buck and EBC products.....there are plenty of people on here that get on fine with the redstuff and the yellowstuff with no complaints(any reading please voice your opinions) on the same hand you are saying about switching to Ferodos and Pagids but as you know i sell EBC products aswell(and they say very well on here)and the number of people that switch to EBC because they are calling the brands you just named is unreal.
So from what feedback we get and what i here on here it comes down to individual preference again and what type of braking you are doing both on Reds and Yellows......this is a vicious circle......if you want Bob i can send copies of emails of guys that love the stuff.....its a bit like i like Nike trainers and you hate them and love Reebok we all have our views because it is personel preference
im beginning to think you have shares in Pagid and Ferodo
mate
this is just my opinion and i am finished on this thread roll on the weekend
So from what feedback we get and what i here on here it comes down to individual preference again and what type of braking you are doing both on Reds and Yellows......this is a vicious circle......if you want Bob i can send copies of emails of guys that love the stuff.....its a bit like i like Nike trainers and you hate them and love Reebok we all have our views because it is personel preference
im beginning to think you have shares in Pagid and Ferodo
matethis is just my opinion and i am finished on this thread roll on the weekend