'Spikus':

1. Are you saying that the EBC Yellowstuff'R' pads dont fade on the road? If so tell me whereabouts you are located and if you are anywhere nearby I will gladly demonstrate the fact that they do fade.

2. Maybe EBC and yourself are so confident in the pads that you wil say that I'm getting system fade and that a change of fluid WILL resolve matters. If EBC had done any R&D and had confidence in the product I'm sure they would say this.

2. I had Redstuff 'Ceramics' and they lasted an inadequate amount of time/mileage. This is not just my experience but the experience of many others. I think it is accepted that the pads do have a short lifespan. Furthermore the design of the pads with the low pad indicators set at the wrong depth was a PITA. I believe this has been resolved now. It should never have made it onto any customers car like that though IMO.

4. I am merely reporting my experiences with EBC products. I was dissatisfied with 'Ceramics' and was kindly offered a replacement set which I declined. I was then offered the new Yellowstuff'R' compound to try and report back on, which incidently is exactly what I am doing.

5. This issue has nothing to do with personal preference unless people like experiencing dangerous brake fade at high speeds

6. I will do you a deal. I will have the fluid replaced (although it was new anyway) and if cures the problem then great. I couldnt be happier and will gladly retract any neg comments about the Yellowstuff compound. If it doesnt however cure the problem then I suggest EBC admit fault and withdraw the product.


I look forward to a reply to numbers 2 and 6 in particular.

Bob

 

Bob

With the Redstuff Ceramic's that you used and complained of short life, did this include Track Days?

Buck

 

No offence was taken Bob.

I was refering to YOUR posts on threads that I created, (ie pricing). Nothing to do with your issues on reds or yellows.

Regards

Buck

 

just to clarify what your experiencing Bob, there are a couple of fairly easy ways of knowing the type of "fade" you are experiencing......................

if you get a longer, soft pedal then it more likely "system fade" caused by over-heated fluid.....................
if the pedal gets harder but with no retardation then it normally the material of the pad beinf overheated and then fading....................

also if the brake fluid has been faded it is a game of ever decreasing circles after that, as every time you overheat the fluid you get less performance from it............we always advise a minor flush to get rid of the abused fluid in these senarios!!

cheers, alyn

 

Buck: (re: Ceramics) Did a few laps (literally) @ Silverstone, where funnily enough they performed well. I had them checked after a couple of months of fitting them as they were squeeling like pigs and was told they would need changing soon. It was after that they went on a few laps of Silverstone. Have noticed others also reporting less than 6 months road use from them, which in my eyes is not acceptable.

What are your views to points 2 and 6 raised above?

Bob

 

Alyn: "One stop was ok, so to was the second and then the third made me almost $hit myself.

Sounds like pad fade as the pedal just goes all hard (high up) and v difficult to push down on it."

If EBC are confident in their product (as they 'should' be after their own extensive R&D) I would assume they would agree to points 2 and 6 above.

I would love to be wrong and for it to be system fade as it saves me alot of hassle.

Bob

 

the symptoms you describe are almost certainly the pad material.....................

alyn

 

Ceramics:

The squealing, was this the wear indicators being out of place?
Who told you they needed replacing?
Did you see the old Ceramics, once the Yellowstuff replaced them?
Who replaced them?

We had a customer recently, who I recognised by his name, on the phone. He wanted another set of Ceramics. I asked him, just out of interest, "How many miles did they last". He replied, "6,000. But then again, I did fit new front tyres at the same time and they also need replacing now." He was more then happy with the performance, and life, of the pad, considering his driving style. Its all relative.

How many miles do you expect of a pad, if and once you are using that pad on a track? As you know, track braking conditions compared against road braking conditions are completely different.

Just out of interest, how much does it cost to do 2 laps of Silverstone?

Yellowstuff:

Your points 2 & 6.
Which "2", there are two!
The first "2". Bob, I have already suggested you speak to EBC technical. You said you was going to. They are in a far better position then I, to help resolve your problem.

6.
The Yellowstuff part number you have is Reg90 approved. Each part number has to go through an independent testing process to gain this approval. I would assume, if this material compound were failing as you have described, it would not pass these tests. Maybe I am wrong, I do not know exactly what is required for R90 approval.

Buck

 

Ceramics:

The squealing was the wear indicators being in the wrong place from the factory. A recognised problem I believe as they are no longer on the new pads?

I put up with the squealing for a while and eventually took them to a national garage who inspected them and told me they needed replacement. I replaced them myself and there was not much left on them at all. Incidently a friend of mine fitted his at the same time on a different car and experienced the same lifespan. Tracktime was v cheap as it was at the Traxx event.

My tyres last on average 20,000miles and I expect my brakes to last at least one years average mileage (12k). My OE pads lasted over 2 years.



Yellowstuff:

2. I will speak to EBC tech when I get a chance. But in the meantime would you still sell these pads knowing what you do, to someone for track use?

6. You tell me what R90 approval is? I would assume its road use approval, in which case it would pass the same as cheap road pads.

Bob

 

Right you can have my thoughts on EBC pads, and I've had no dealings what so ever with either of the companies on this thread. After running Pagid blues for over two years, including trackdays, I finally tired of the wooden feel when they were cold which wasn't that bad really, so after listening to all the hype about ceramic reds being a fast road pad that'll live with trackdays I got a set, all seemed fine the couple of weeks after intially fitting them, and with a couple hundred miles on them headed for my next trackday at croft, ok I'm not a slouch on track but I'm not mental either, pads held up well all day with no fade what so ever having covered 150miles on track plus the bit to go and refuel at lunch, then drove home back to Lancaster, next day in the scoob brakes felt fine, car then sat around for two weeks before heading over to SSO, during which they felt very wooden (and I didn't drive like an **** on the road), so got back didn't touch the car again for a week, I had checked the fluid level and noted that by the look I'd used half the pads (was running them in the back as well) after the trackday, so decided to give the car a good once over, to say that I was a touch miffed when I looked at the front pads which had about three mil left on them is a mile away to my first reaction, I'd vaporised a set of front pads in less than a thousand miles with the Pagid blues I could do a trackday and several thousand hard road miles!!! Anyhow after sometime trawling the web I found out listening to the sales hype I'd actually taken a step backwards in compound, according to EBC's own site their equivalent to Pagid blue is the Yellow stuff, well got a full set in the 1723 compound and first impressions are they feel like the Pagids, so we'll have to wait and see after next trackday, if these vaporise I'll not be happy at all, and that will be the last I touch of EBC.

 

Update:

Thanks to Buck for sorting some rears out

12k miles on and pads are going well (twice what the Redstuff ceramics did before they needed replacing). Had them out on track for a short while the other day and they performed very well.

Seems as though the problem was mainly with the mismatched front/rear compounds. Caliper still has its limitations though when it comes to repeated high speed stops.

I would not hesitate to recommend these pads for fast street and light track work (havent tested in prolonged track events so can't comment).

Excellent pads

Thanks to both Buck for supplying the rears. Also big thanks to www.MocomRacing.com for supplying the fronts+fluid and going well out of their way to help. :

Cheers

 

You are most welcome!

Buck

 

just what ebc has always recommended always fit the same material to the front and the rear

if you do not brake balance is affected and the rear becomes the weak link in the chain and then all the brake effort is done by the front which it is not designed to do