Dave T-S

Whilst I am waiting for Brembo to to catch up with their order backlog (before they go on holiday:rolleyes I still haven't decided what brakes to go for.

Either:

AP 6 pots from Scoobysport

or

Scoobysport AP disc/Brembo 305mm caliper setup.

Any feedback from users on both these setups? For example I have been told the AP 6 pots are too extreme for road use - on/off.

Will be fitted to MY01, Leda suspension fitted, Link to be added, predominately road use with three or four track days a year. Road use is mainly cross country use on winding, mainly deserted A and B roads.

Please do not suggest "Bloggs" brakes as an alternative - I shall only buy one of the above two kits.

Jza

Good question Dave.

Ive been told that the Bremob/Ap kit is the best to go for - as you say the 6 pots are too on/off.

Saying that though, the threads i read from 6 pot owners dont say that at all. But hey, Mr Croney probably knows what he's doing - he had a choice and fitted the Brembo/AP combo.

Save a bit of wedge as well!!

Jza

Adam M

didnt pete have a choice in the beginning to brembo discs, and look what happened there

I have ap six pots, and dont understand this on off thing. dont get that at all.

I see it from the physics point of view.

These are the issues.

1. Torque = force time distance.

greater diameter = greater distance, therefore less clamping force needs to be applied to achieve the same braking torque.

2. Greater disc size means more area to radiate heat from, therefore better resistance to fade.

3. 6 pot has larger pad. Therefore load pressure is spread over a larger area, this means energy is converted to heat over a larger area, meaning instantaneous hot spots created will not get as hot, and also force applied by pad on disc per unit area is lower.

these are entirely my opinions, based on mylimited knowledge of physics.

Pete Croney

I drive with both, on a daily basis...

Brembo/AP on the WRX
AP 6 pots on the RA

The RA doesn't have abs, which sharpens the mind wonderfully when trying to be as late as possible. This makes the pedal feel like its a bracket, not a lever. But if you do lock up, add 50% to the remaining braking distance.


For track use on slicks, I would choose the RA with its APs everytime. For outright braking torque these are so serious that I have often wondered if the chassis can actually take the forces involved.

For country lane "recreational" driving or a track day on road tyres, I'd choose the WRX on its Brembos. They have less unsprung weight (better suspension reaction times) and are more progressive/forgiving.

Both are completely fade proof.

Out of interest, the Brembos, when used with slicks, will outbrake the APs on road tyres.

Also, pads and discs for the Brembos are approx 75% the cost of those for the APs (I run both sets on Pagid). This is an issue for an owner who may cover a lot of miles.

Adam M

Pete,

since the standard brakes have the power to lock the wheels, surely they would stop the car on slicks faster than the ap's on road tyres too?

it all depends on what speed you are doing as to whether or not the brakes have the power to lock the weels.

I would have thought that fade characteristics and temperature dissipation are the most important concerns here.

Pete Croney

Locking the wheels on purpose isn't what I mean. You can lock up with a set of 2 pots, if you stab at them.

What I'm really on about is the ability to load up the fronts, progressively, and cope with an undulating surface and suddenly changing grip in the braking zone.

We haven't even discussed the scenario of a wet autumn evening, on an unknown but otherwise enjoyable road. Or a braking surface that is so rutted that it wants to throw the wheels up, braking traction.

To add to your physics... larger disc=greater weight=longer required for the suspension to arrest its upward movement and re-establish tyre/road contact.

I agree that the APs are as good as it gets, but personally, I prefer fast road driving with Brembos. If I only did a few track days a year, I would chose the lighter, almost as powerful Brembos (with Pagids - the discs were designed for them)... just like I'm using on track this year

On the other hand, there are plenty of SIDC track day regulars who do 10+ events a year with this same set up. And these guys are very quick

Dave T-S

Adam
Bollocks to your physics malarkey matey. You climb in your crate, drive it, and its the feelings you get through the seat of your pants (or the skid marks in them..... )

Dave T-S

Pete
The RA - no ABS - HEAVEN!!! I bloody hate ABS and much prefer to control the pedal myself. The biggest hate about ABS (apart from on snow in the Alps - YUK) is when you are braking fairly heavily, but well before wheel lockup, hit an uneven bit of road and the bloody ABS goes off!!

However, for the average Mr Nobber on the road, i'm glad HE'S got ABS!!

Your point about the reduced unsprung weight of the Brembos is a good one - particularly as I already capitalised on this by going for the Speedline GT1 lites......

Hoppy

Unsprung weight?!? We're talking about less than a kilo max here, on a wheel/tyre/brakes package that weighs, what, about 30 kilos a corner?

If upsrpung weight is so important we'd all be running about on 16in wheels. Any takers? Thought not.

There is always the APR 4-pot kit to consider, which is obviously lighter than the 6-pot calipers but the main advantage is the wide choice of pad materials available, at lower prices.

The talk about APR brakes being 'on-off' is total rubbish.

Dave, the most important consideration is the disc. Is it up to the job for you? Then choose the pads, agian for your personal application. The calipers you then get to squeeze them all together is the last consideration.

Happy stopping!

Richard.

Dave T-S

Richard
Good points. It's unsprung weight AFTER looking good on 18" wheels LOL. I'm sure its a ***** envy type thing!

Of course, with 18's, you need a 330mm disc under them so as not to feel inadequate in the trouser department....

Hoppy

Unsprung weight in the trouser department? Painful when you hit the bump stops.

I can recommend deeper gussets - more comfortable spring rate and good rebound damping

Richard.

Dave T-S

LOL

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

I'm a Brembo/AP man & very happy with it

45 min solid session on track @ BA Speed & Feed & <B>zero</B> problems with the brakes ( & NO - I don't drive like a *****! )

May look slightly "lost" under 18's but they certainly do the job well - time after time

Scott J Davies

Dave

I happen to agree with both Adam and Pete

I have an RA which I use for quick road/track work. I have never driven a car with the Brembo's on so can't compare. I can say though the APs are the Puppies Undercarriage on both the road and the track. You simple get used to the different type of pedal feel, adapt to it and then exploit it in the best way.

Yep, bollox to Adams Physics its personal preference M8. Drive both and see what you think, you may find the APs to severe, some people that have driven my car have, some that have driven thought they were great.

IMHO, if your gunna do track days get the APs they can't be beaten, if your not then think seriously about the Brembos I have only heard excellent reports about them.

Try them both though!! I am sure Parafin Heater can help there If not give me a bell Mutant Mong has my number and you can try my AP's.

SJD

Adam M

if you are offering free drives in your car scott then can I have one?

Stop saying bollox to my physics. It isnt mine, it belongs to the universe, and some people like a theoretical comparison.


Interestingly I spoke to pete the other day about this, and we did come to the conclusion that "theoretically" given that the smaller diameter brembo/aps require more pedal pressure to achieve the same braking force, we reckoned that it would mean over the range of 0-100% braking pressure, you would get more control with the bremobs.

Whether or not this equates to feel i dont know, but I can certainly see that it would be easier to choose your exact braking pressure with a smaller disc.

With this in mind, if your ultimate goal is just road driving, it probably makes more sense to go for a highly capable yet smaller diameter disc, especially as initial outlay and maintenance are significantly cheaper.

I still went for ap 6 pots, cos they look kewl .

CraigH

That's the problem with you Adam - you're just like Scott - if it's big and shiny it must be good

Dave T-S

Scott
Thanks for the offer to try your AP's, I might just take you up on that!

Cheers

Dave