AP "kit" - telling it like it is
30 August 2000, 04:46 PM
#1
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I have to agree with the point quattro is making about the ScoobyMania AP kit.
Like he says Mike T has done nothing more than put together AP parts that were already freely available.
Therefore when Mike uses the words "develop" it is very misleading. As is the term that Stef is an AP "test/development driver".
The bottom line is that AP are working with Mike as a customer. It is Mike who is using Stef who again is a customer of Mike's.
Like he says Mike T has done nothing more than put together AP parts that were already freely available.
Therefore when Mike uses the words "develop" it is very misleading. As is the term that Stef is an AP "test/development driver".
The bottom line is that AP are working with Mike as a customer. It is Mike who is using Stef who again is a customer of Mike's.
30 August 2000, 05:05 PM
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I'm a little confused here about the large amount of threads concerning after market kit availability of late. Is there an inherent problem with the kits available that has only just come to light, or is a bit of a witch hunt going on here?
I am interested as I propose to upgrade my brakes sometime soon and don't want to buy something that may dissapoint or fail
Cheers
Yex
I am interested as I propose to upgrade my brakes sometime soon and don't want to buy something that may dissapoint or fail
Cheers
Yex
30 August 2000, 05:17 PM
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Why is all this going on?
In laymans terms, Scoobymania have developed a kit, for the Impreza, with AP.
Stef has helped test it, therefore, he is a development test driver, for this kit.
Why are certain individuals so ready to rubbish it.
In laymans terms, Scoobymania have developed a kit, for the Impreza, with AP.
Stef has helped test it, therefore, he is a development test driver, for this kit.
Why are certain individuals so ready to rubbish it.
30 August 2000, 05:44 PM
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I too am confused?
We have developed a kit using very specific parts which AP Racing already had (in the 4 pot kits), to make/develop a kit that previously did not exist.
Alterations and adjustments have been made to those kits which is reviewed on an ongoing basis. (development process)?
We had a completely new caliper 'developed' <I>(slimline 6 Pot kit)</I> which simply did not exist prior to our involvement in the project; <I><B>(or am I not allowed to call it a project either).</B></I>
Phil (or branko) I don't see the point you are trying to make, "Telling it like it is", implies you know how it is?? Clearly this is not the case.
We sell a product that already greatly benefits everyone who has bought it and feel that it is better than anything originally available. Why do you have a problem with that????
I believe it was someone else who called Stef a development driver and in a way as Craig points out he is...... Why would anyone have a problem with that?
What on earth is the point of this whole thread?????????
Mike.
[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 30 August 2000).]
We have developed a kit using very specific parts which AP Racing already had (in the 4 pot kits), to make/develop a kit that previously did not exist.
Alterations and adjustments have been made to those kits which is reviewed on an ongoing basis. (development process)?
We had a completely new caliper 'developed' <I>(slimline 6 Pot kit)</I> which simply did not exist prior to our involvement in the project; <I><B>(or am I not allowed to call it a project either).</B></I>
Phil (or branko) I don't see the point you are trying to make, "Telling it like it is", implies you know how it is?? Clearly this is not the case.
We sell a product that already greatly benefits everyone who has bought it and feel that it is better than anything originally available. Why do you have a problem with that????
I believe it was someone else who called Stef a development driver and in a way as Craig points out he is...... Why would anyone have a problem with that?
What on earth is the point of this whole thread?????????
Mike.
[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 30 August 2000).]
30 August 2000, 05:56 PM
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Chaps,
This discussion has become (even more)pointless.
Please cease and desist, or let us confine ourselves to the merits or otherwise of these products.
Anything else is redundant to all intents and purposes.
Rgds,
Alex
This discussion has become (even more)pointless.
Please cease and desist, or let us confine ourselves to the merits or otherwise of these products.
Anything else is redundant to all intents and purposes.
Rgds,
Alex
30 August 2000, 05:56 PM
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I agree with CraigH here. Pick up a dictionary and a few chill pills. This *really* isn't that big a deal.
Develop: to go through a process of natural growth, differentiation, or evolution by successive changes.
I take it that is what they are doing, trying one set of pads, courtesy of Stef, and finding that they are better or worse, in their package. Thusly through a process of evolution come to a package that is agreable.
This is development, and whilst it isn't quite Boeing creating a launch vehicle, the word is a verb, and is certainly appropriate.
Scoobymania have a package that they developed with help from Stef - they themself grant that they didn't develop the individual components but merely the combination that works well on a Scooby, and that they are willing to put their name to.
I think that the people whom are raising objections about this are betraying more about themselves than ScoobyMania and Stef.
KF
Develop: to go through a process of natural growth, differentiation, or evolution by successive changes.
I take it that is what they are doing, trying one set of pads, courtesy of Stef, and finding that they are better or worse, in their package. Thusly through a process of evolution come to a package that is agreable.
This is development, and whilst it isn't quite Boeing creating a launch vehicle, the word is a verb, and is certainly appropriate.
Scoobymania have a package that they developed with help from Stef - they themself grant that they didn't develop the individual components but merely the combination that works well on a Scooby, and that they are willing to put their name to.
I think that the people whom are raising objections about this are betraying more about themselves than ScoobyMania and Stef.
KF
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30 August 2000, 06:58 PM
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I don't have a problem with anyone on the BBS - in fact I think I made some friends and helped people out to the best of my abilities when I was at a SIDC trackday at Donington Park this year.
However 2 points to make.
Firstly all I was taking issue with way you use always use the phase :-
"ScoobyMania developed brake kit"
Which I think simply misleads people, who don't know any better, into thinking that this is some new and exclusive product that you have had imput into the design of.
When the reality is all you have done is picked some parts from an AP list and bundled them together.
It just gives people the impression that you are selling something special when in reality they could go to any AP supplier and get the same thing.
The thing about Stef is that you seek to re-enforce the credibility of buying from you with a claim that he is assisting the development of the product in conjuction with AP.
When the reality of that is that you give AP some feedback - just like any other supplier might do from any of their customers.
This isn't a moan from someone who has anything to gain commercially from this - it is just putting the record straight so people are clear on what's what.
However 2 points to make.
Firstly all I was taking issue with way you use always use the phase :-
"ScoobyMania developed brake kit"
Which I think simply misleads people, who don't know any better, into thinking that this is some new and exclusive product that you have had imput into the design of.
When the reality is all you have done is picked some parts from an AP list and bundled them together.
It just gives people the impression that you are selling something special when in reality they could go to any AP supplier and get the same thing.
The thing about Stef is that you seek to re-enforce the credibility of buying from you with a claim that he is assisting the development of the product in conjuction with AP.
When the reality of that is that you give AP some feedback - just like any other supplier might do from any of their customers.
This isn't a moan from someone who has anything to gain commercially from this - it is just putting the record straight so people are clear on what's what.
30 August 2000, 07:35 PM
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I recently have a kit not supplied by the afore mentioned company and am very happy with it 
All I need is a bigger intercooler - Hmmmmm... perhaps I will buy from a company that does not take cash up front and delivers when they get the stock in - even though some companies 'prior' reps say its in stock already (blatant lie)- dont want to be even close to thinking I might lose money
But hey... I've been ripped off by people before!
All I need is a bigger intercooler - Hmmmmm... perhaps I will buy from a company that does not take cash up front and delivers when they get the stock in - even though some companies 'prior' reps say its in stock already (blatant lie)- dont want to be even close to thinking I might lose money
But hey... I've been ripped off by people before!
30 August 2000, 07:48 PM
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Why do you feel a need to 'take issue' with it?
The kit HAS been developed with Tech Assistance with AP Racing, yes Developed as clearly explained in English by KF.
We have tried to mislead no one, and have been clear about the origins of our kit throughout.
We have spent A LOT of time working with AP Racing on this in both planning , formulation and testing and do not understand why you wish to belittle our effort?
Are you a customer who is unhappy with what we have sold you? Does it not perform as you would expect?
We have had input into the design/formulation of this kit contrary to what you believe.
You wrote: <I>When the reality is all you have done is picked some parts from an AP list and bundled them together.</I>
I could similarly accuse you of simply jumping into a car pressing the pedals and calling yourself a professional driver just because you did that.
Stef HAS assisted us (Scooby Mania & AP Racing) in this endeavour.
Straight from the horses mouth, there it is no dispute no trickery.
Mike.
The kit HAS been developed with Tech Assistance with AP Racing, yes Developed as clearly explained in English by KF.
We have tried to mislead no one, and have been clear about the origins of our kit throughout.
We have spent A LOT of time working with AP Racing on this in both planning , formulation and testing and do not understand why you wish to belittle our effort?
Are you a customer who is unhappy with what we have sold you? Does it not perform as you would expect?
We have had input into the design/formulation of this kit contrary to what you believe.
You wrote: <I>When the reality is all you have done is picked some parts from an AP list and bundled them together.</I>
I could similarly accuse you of simply jumping into a car pressing the pedals and calling yourself a professional driver just because you did that.
Stef HAS assisted us (Scooby Mania & AP Racing) in this endeavour.
Straight from the horses mouth, there it is no dispute no trickery.
Mike.
30 August 2000, 08:12 PM
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OK lets chill this out a little bit.
I've got no axe to grind with anyone and I certainly don't want to start clashing swords over this - it isn't worth falling out over.
I kicked this thread off because I think that people are being mislead - and I'll put it into context.
As people have started to exploit their Impreza's on trackdays many OE parts haven't been up to the job. Brakes, springs, dampers, etc, etc.
Obviously you have identifyed this "gap" and sourced more suitable competition bias parts.
Nothing to take issue with here.
What I take issue with is that you then market these collection of items as your own "kit"; and attempt to give the impression to the man on the street that you the sole supplier of these parts, when in fact you are not.
I'm not rubbishing "your" kit - just pointing things out to people who otherwise might not know any better.
If simply pointing out to Impreza consumers that they might have a choice of supplier is a problem to you then please explain why.
In conclusion the Stef development work just sounds a little bit like "building your part up" - but maybe that's just me.
As for just pressing pedals makes me a professional driver - well you're dead right in essence that's all it is. No magic.
I've got no axe to grind with anyone and I certainly don't want to start clashing swords over this - it isn't worth falling out over.
I kicked this thread off because I think that people are being mislead - and I'll put it into context.
As people have started to exploit their Impreza's on trackdays many OE parts haven't been up to the job. Brakes, springs, dampers, etc, etc.
Obviously you have identifyed this "gap" and sourced more suitable competition bias parts.
Nothing to take issue with here.
What I take issue with is that you then market these collection of items as your own "kit"; and attempt to give the impression to the man on the street that you the sole supplier of these parts, when in fact you are not.
I'm not rubbishing "your" kit - just pointing things out to people who otherwise might not know any better.
If simply pointing out to Impreza consumers that they might have a choice of supplier is a problem to you then please explain why.
In conclusion the Stef development work just sounds a little bit like "building your part up" - but maybe that's just me.
As for just pressing pedals makes me a professional driver - well you're dead right in essence that's all it is. No magic.
30 August 2000, 08:17 PM
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Steve.
If it is to our Spec, you should be happy with it, we have spent a lot of effort ensuring it is right.
Indeed, Branko (BRD) has had several off of us, (possibly the source of yours)?
Glad you are now happy. (regardless of it's origins).
Phil.
We have never claimed it is not attainable elsewhere, merely we are only hopeful that people will acknowledge that it isn't likely that it would have been around if we hadn't done all of the leg work.
The world is already full of people only too happy to accept the work of others as their own... how many other companies take so much time and effort to bring a first class product to the forefront and endeavour to keep it there?
People are free to purchase where they feel comfortable and I wouldn't want it any other way.
We will however remain focussed on contributing as much as we can for Impreza drivers, whether other companies are happy to ride off the back of our efforts is down to them?
Mike.
[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 30 August 2000).]
If it is to our Spec, you should be happy with it, we have spent a lot of effort ensuring it is right.
Indeed, Branko (BRD) has had several off of us, (possibly the source of yours)?
Glad you are now happy. (regardless of it's origins).
Phil.
We have never claimed it is not attainable elsewhere, merely we are only hopeful that people will acknowledge that it isn't likely that it would have been around if we hadn't done all of the leg work.
The world is already full of people only too happy to accept the work of others as their own... how many other companies take so much time and effort to bring a first class product to the forefront and endeavour to keep it there?
People are free to purchase where they feel comfortable and I wouldn't want it any other way.
We will however remain focussed on contributing as much as we can for Impreza drivers, whether other companies are happy to ride off the back of our efforts is down to them?
Mike.
[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 30 August 2000).]
30 August 2000, 08:24 PM
#13
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Just for the record:
Stef has had products fitted to his car, by AP, at their request/cost, specifically for testing/feedback.
Prior to Scoobymania/Mikes involvement with AP, the kit with G8 disks was not available.
I'm not going to comment on just what development was, or wasn't done with AP, because I don't know, but it seems a shame to spend our time arguing over semantics, when the "results", are what we're really interested in.
Mark.
Stef has had products fitted to his car, by AP, at their request/cost, specifically for testing/feedback.
Prior to Scoobymania/Mikes involvement with AP, the kit with G8 disks was not available.
I'm not going to comment on just what development was, or wasn't done with AP, because I don't know, but it seems a shame to spend our time arguing over semantics, when the "results", are what we're really interested in.
Mark.
30 August 2000, 09:30 PM
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Your last post sums up why I've taken issue.
"How many other companies endevour to take a first class product, blah, blah.."
"It isn't likely to be around...if we hadn't done ALL of the leg work"
"other companies are happy to ride off the back of our efforts"
Oh - PLEASE.
If anyone has been keeping a first class product at the forefront it is AP and any development will be driven from AP - wanting to maintain their own reputations.
You surely can't seriously claim that by fitting an off the peg item to a vehicle means you have "developed" it. Worse take some sort of moral high ground when someone else sells the same.
People have been fitting AP calipers and discs to Impreza's long before ScoobyMania even came into existance. They just didn't bundle it all up and sell it.
Just answer two questions -
1 - what's your background? i.e. Engineer? Competition driver? Salesman? Accountant?
2 - Chance to really SELL your AP "kit" - tell everyone about all these developements you are so proud of that have mean "so much effort to bring a first class product to the forefront"
"How many other companies endevour to take a first class product, blah, blah.."
"It isn't likely to be around...if we hadn't done ALL of the leg work"
"other companies are happy to ride off the back of our efforts"
Oh - PLEASE.
If anyone has been keeping a first class product at the forefront it is AP and any development will be driven from AP - wanting to maintain their own reputations.
You surely can't seriously claim that by fitting an off the peg item to a vehicle means you have "developed" it. Worse take some sort of moral high ground when someone else sells the same.
People have been fitting AP calipers and discs to Impreza's long before ScoobyMania even came into existance. They just didn't bundle it all up and sell it.
Just answer two questions -
1 - what's your background? i.e. Engineer? Competition driver? Salesman? Accountant?
2 - Chance to really SELL your AP "kit" - tell everyone about all these developements you are so proud of that have mean "so much effort to bring a first class product to the forefront"
30 August 2000, 10:14 PM
#15
Phil
I have got to say that over the past 10 days you have really been getting stuck into the old "Brake Debate". You have become extremely vociferous in discussing various aftermarket brakes & expanding your theories.
I am sure we appreciate input from all sources but you seem to be becoming quite evangelical about aftermarket brakes, their sales & marketing & effectiveness. Whilst, of course, no-one wants to be sold a "pup", it would seem that you have taken to task the whole Impreza aftermarket brake industry together with a large percentage of their users. Have you got some axe to grind or a product to sell? We all need to be told wether we are getting VFM but you might appear to be on some crusade
I have got to say that over the past 10 days you have really been getting stuck into the old "Brake Debate". You have become extremely vociferous in discussing various aftermarket brakes & expanding your theories.
I am sure we appreciate input from all sources but you seem to be becoming quite evangelical about aftermarket brakes, their sales & marketing & effectiveness. Whilst, of course, no-one wants to be sold a "pup", it would seem that you have taken to task the whole Impreza aftermarket brake industry together with a large percentage of their users. Have you got some axe to grind or a product to sell? We all need to be told wether we are getting VFM but you might appear to be on some crusade
31 August 2000, 12:26 AM
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Phil,
I may be wrong but I thought the kits you offered were basically the same price as everywhere else.
I'm completely unbiased, but it looks like you are having a personal dig/trying to discredit Scoobymania - now you state that Mike T has said something which you consider bang out order. So is this tit for tat?
I may be wrong but I thought the kits you offered were basically the same price as everywhere else.
I'm completely unbiased, but it looks like you are having a personal dig/trying to discredit Scoobymania - now you state that Mike T has said something which you consider bang out order. So is this tit for tat?
31 August 2000, 12:47 AM
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Phil.
You have recently returned to both bbs's, and all I have seen is you starting another slanging match about brakes on both!
Whether you or anyone else believes that I was asked by AP to test a variety of different pads with the Scoobymania kit is completely irrelevant. I was, so
. The fact is that I have receieved a number of pads and discs from AP at no cost to myself in order to obtain results for them. If that makes me a 'development/test driver' in peoples eyes than that's up to them. It was not a term Mike or I gave myself.
I find it ridiculous that you and Quattro have both come o here and tried to undermine the work that Scoobymania have done with AP, and you both co-incedentally are able to also offer AP products to people! Who cares whether it's the same kit or not? Let people decide for themself which AP agent they wish to use. That's what adverts are for isn't it?I am obviously biased towards Scoobymania as that is who supplied me my kit. Ever heard of loyalty?
I have never made any mis-leading comments about anything I have done with AP, nor would I.
Either way I suggest you, like Quattro, get your facts right before bringing me into your slanging matches.
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 31 August 2000).]
You have recently returned to both bbs's, and all I have seen is you starting another slanging match about brakes on both!
Whether you or anyone else believes that I was asked by AP to test a variety of different pads with the Scoobymania kit is completely irrelevant. I was, so
. The fact is that I have receieved a number of pads and discs from AP at no cost to myself in order to obtain results for them. If that makes me a 'development/test driver' in peoples eyes than that's up to them. It was not a term Mike or I gave myself.I find it ridiculous that you and Quattro have both come o here and tried to undermine the work that Scoobymania have done with AP, and you both co-incedentally are able to also offer AP products to people! Who cares whether it's the same kit or not? Let people decide for themself which AP agent they wish to use. That's what adverts are for isn't it?I am obviously biased towards Scoobymania as that is who supplied me my kit. Ever heard of loyalty?
I have never made any mis-leading comments about anything I have done with AP, nor would I.
Either way I suggest you, like Quattro, get your facts right before bringing me into your slanging matches.
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 31 August 2000).]
31 August 2000, 02:33 AM
#18
I know bu66er all about the AP / Scooby Mania connection and only a little more about things that stop cars in general.
What I DO know is that if the pedants on this board attack a "supplier" every time they come on (first Prodrive Dude & now Mike T.) it might mean that they just don't bother posting anymore. Wouldn't that be a result??
The worst case of course is the demise of Scoobynet 2 . .
We should also keep in mind that any supplier worth their repute will always answer politely even when would be fully justified replying in the vernacular. Patience of saints sometimes.
Before you hit that "submit" button, just ask take a few seconds to ask yourself "is this of help to anyone" or "does this harm the bbs?" It takes a great deal of restraint to hit the back button instead. . .
Yours in a friendly and amicable sort of way
Suresh
(a self-confessed pedant,
but keeping it off the board)
What I DO know is that if the pedants on this board attack a "supplier" every time they come on (first Prodrive Dude & now Mike T.) it might mean that they just don't bother posting anymore. Wouldn't that be a result??
The worst case of course is the demise of Scoobynet 2 . . We should also keep in mind that any supplier worth their repute will always answer politely even when would be fully justified replying in the vernacular. Patience of saints sometimes.
Before you hit that "submit" button, just ask take a few seconds to ask yourself "is this of help to anyone" or "does this harm the bbs?" It takes a great deal of restraint to hit the back button instead. . .
Yours in a friendly and amicable sort of way
Suresh
(a self-confessed pedant,
but keeping it off the board)
31 August 2000, 05:06 AM
#19
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Phil:
Have you personally seen the mentioned kits before and after Stef had 'tested' them on his car??
For all you know they may be different.. they may be drilled differently for better effect.
Ever thought that the difference 'could' have been a direct result of Stef opinions with the orginal kit?
If there is a difference it will be for the best or the mfg. wouldn't have changed it..right??
Sounds like you need to either uprate you brakes or take your toys from this sandpit to another and play with someone who actually is going to take notice of you.
Have you personally seen the mentioned kits before and after Stef had 'tested' them on his car??
For all you know they may be different.. they may be drilled differently for better effect.
Ever thought that the difference 'could' have been a direct result of Stef opinions with the orginal kit?
If there is a difference it will be for the best or the mfg. wouldn't have changed it..right??
Sounds like you need to either uprate you brakes or take your toys from this sandpit to another and play with someone who actually is going to take notice of you.
31 August 2000, 08:15 AM
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Phil
I agree with Puff.
While I think questioning everything is good (how else do we learn?) I feel we would all benefit if your posts were a little less abrasive in nature (not just this thread).
Properly worded/phrased, any post can enhance debate and get a point across - abrasive statements don't....IMHO
Thanks
Richard
I agree with Puff.
While I think questioning everything is good (how else do we learn?) I feel we would all benefit if your posts were a little less abrasive in nature (not just this thread).
Properly worded/phrased, any post can enhance debate and get a point across - abrasive statements don't....IMHO
Thanks
Richard
31 August 2000, 08:37 AM
#21
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Phil,
If you have no axe to grind, why bring this up at all, especially in the tone you are putting it in.
IMO, you seem to have an axe to grind with everyone in the tuning arena, judging by previous posts.
If you have no axe to grind, why bring this up at all, especially in the tone you are putting it in.
IMO, you seem to have an axe to grind with everyone in the tuning arena, judging by previous posts.
31 August 2000, 09:04 AM
#22
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This reminds me of when all our STI's were going to blow up at Donnington.......Uless we used high octane race fuel !!!!!.
Phil, are you starting to sell brakes now.
Mark.
Phil, are you starting to sell brakes now.
Mark.
31 August 2000, 10:29 AM
#24
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Mark - I never said STI engines would go bang unless you used XYZ fuel.
Me offering WRC fuel was in response to a number of people's concerns over Det'. Don't pretend Det' isn't an issue with STI's because everyone can give you their own example. Since then I've been supplying a variety of people with STI's, Lancer Evo, Nissan Skylines and Nissan GTi-R's - and they come back for more so I guess they are happy.
As regards the brake kits. Months & months ago someone e-mailed me off line and asked my oppinion on the aftermarket kits. I said AP kits were very good but said that the prices seen quoted on the BBS seemed expensive - same for Brembo. I contacted some of the people I know and could get the same thing for X% less.
So I offer these kits to the wider audience via the BBS - is it such a bad thing to offer a discount to BBS users? (For what it is worth I even asked to get it put in the Discount section but got no response from Ian Cook.
However the next thing I get a massive slating from Mike T and to a lesser degree Pete Crooney. As you can see from the link on that thread - Mike T is questioning who I am and am I to be trusted, etc, etc (you can read it for yourself). All of which I thought was bang out of order.
I don't own an aftermarket shop, I earn my money from race instruction, driver management, some prize money and I have an income from personal sponsors. Oh and also I am selling a few slick tyres for trackdays - if that is OK by you all?!
Anything I've offered for sale have been products discounted to me that I have offered to you.
This thread kicked off in defence to quattro who was trying to explain about the AP kits in the "What Brakes?" thread. Nothing more nothing less.
Me offering WRC fuel was in response to a number of people's concerns over Det'. Don't pretend Det' isn't an issue with STI's because everyone can give you their own example. Since then I've been supplying a variety of people with STI's, Lancer Evo, Nissan Skylines and Nissan GTi-R's - and they come back for more so I guess they are happy.
As regards the brake kits. Months & months ago someone e-mailed me off line and asked my oppinion on the aftermarket kits. I said AP kits were very good but said that the prices seen quoted on the BBS seemed expensive - same for Brembo. I contacted some of the people I know and could get the same thing for X% less.
So I offer these kits to the wider audience via the BBS - is it such a bad thing to offer a discount to BBS users? (For what it is worth I even asked to get it put in the Discount section but got no response from Ian Cook.
However the next thing I get a massive slating from Mike T and to a lesser degree Pete Crooney. As you can see from the link on that thread - Mike T is questioning who I am and am I to be trusted, etc, etc (you can read it for yourself). All of which I thought was bang out of order.
I don't own an aftermarket shop, I earn my money from race instruction, driver management, some prize money and I have an income from personal sponsors. Oh and also I am selling a few slick tyres for trackdays - if that is OK by you all?!
Anything I've offered for sale have been products discounted to me that I have offered to you.
This thread kicked off in defence to quattro who was trying to explain about the AP kits in the "What Brakes?" thread. Nothing more nothing less.
31 August 2000, 01:30 PM
#25
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I think we all need to take a chill pill as this has got way over the top. Myself included.
Craig - maybe there is a bit of tit for tat. Apologies all.
Stef - I'm sure that you have tried different sets of pads and discs. Thing is Mike would like to believe that ScoobyMania is some kind of AP R&D centre.
As you can see from his posts - he talks about doing all of the leg work, developing a kit, others riding off the back of his work, blah, blah.
To me (and obviously quattro - whom I don't know and haven't met) that is an exaggeration of the facts.
Regards me selling this kit - I'm not an AP dealer and you can see from my previous post the context of how I came to offer them for sale.
As for the thread on the 22B BBS - That certainly wasn't a slanging match, in fact I was defending Pete Crooney. I certainly do think that a great deal of brake problems are mainly down to the user.
I would suggest that 90% of the "warped discs" are down to "abuse" - probably due to people not running new brake pads in properly.
I believe he must have a difficult time with some people who believe that once they fit an aftermarket performance part - it is indestructable.
I even backed it up by giving a list of user "hints and tips".
It seems to me that some people think that performance parts/track days, etc, etc didn't exist before the Impreza was built and that nobody, but the long serving BBS members, can have an opinion that challenges their viewpoint.
Craig - maybe there is a bit of tit for tat. Apologies all.
Stef - I'm sure that you have tried different sets of pads and discs. Thing is Mike would like to believe that ScoobyMania is some kind of AP R&D centre.
As you can see from his posts - he talks about doing all of the leg work, developing a kit, others riding off the back of his work, blah, blah.
To me (and obviously quattro - whom I don't know and haven't met) that is an exaggeration of the facts.
Regards me selling this kit - I'm not an AP dealer and you can see from my previous post the context of how I came to offer them for sale.
As for the thread on the 22B BBS - That certainly wasn't a slanging match, in fact I was defending Pete Crooney. I certainly do think that a great deal of brake problems are mainly down to the user.
I would suggest that 90% of the "warped discs" are down to "abuse" - probably due to people not running new brake pads in properly.
I believe he must have a difficult time with some people who believe that once they fit an aftermarket performance part - it is indestructable.
I even backed it up by giving a list of user "hints and tips".
It seems to me that some people think that performance parts/track days, etc, etc didn't exist before the Impreza was built and that nobody, but the long serving BBS members, can have an opinion that challenges their viewpoint.
31 August 2000, 03:24 PM
#26
Phil
FYI, the "Brembos - Scary" thread on 22b was not an attack on Pete Croney or Scoobysport - it was a "relating a story" thread.
OTOH, the "BIG Brake Debate" on 22b would seem to be more overtly aggressive by you towards S/Sport & S/Mania
Going back through the old threads, you yourself were condoning/suggesting the use of AP/Brembo kits that you could obtain (& the same as supplied by...) for track use, by virtue of the fact that that is the use to which the majority of purchasers would put them - & I think you are aware of that.
Having read the email you sent me last night, I am now even more confused. Are my expectations too high for purchasing such a kit, have I unwittingly (or negligently) destroyed its effectiveness or have I been "mis-sold" something by one of the suppliers you are defending.
Whatever is happening, you seem to be winding the maximum number of people up...
FYI, the "Brembos - Scary" thread on 22b was not an attack on Pete Croney or Scoobysport - it was a "relating a story" thread.
OTOH, the "BIG Brake Debate" on 22b would seem to be more overtly aggressive by you towards S/Sport & S/Mania
Going back through the old threads, you yourself were condoning/suggesting the use of AP/Brembo kits that you could obtain (& the same as supplied by...) for track use, by virtue of the fact that that is the use to which the majority of purchasers would put them - & I think you are aware of that.
Having read the email you sent me last night, I am now even more confused. Are my expectations too high for purchasing such a kit, have I unwittingly (or negligently) destroyed its effectiveness or have I been "mis-sold" something by one of the suppliers you are defending.
Whatever is happening, you seem to be winding the maximum number of people up...
31 August 2000, 03:44 PM
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It seems to me that this thread is of no interst to the majority of users of this BBS.I do understand the point raised by both parties, but think this thread should be deleted to save Scoobynet 2 going the same way as no1.
This is my personel opionion
Thanks
This is my personel opionion
Thanks
31 August 2000, 04:40 PM
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Phil.
In your first post you stated it was Mike who was using me. It is not, it is AP.
All I ask is that you check your information before making statements involving me.
I am perfectly chilled.
Martin.
A bit of banter's always good for the old ticker!
Stef.
In your first post you stated it was Mike who was using me. It is not, it is AP.
All I ask is that you check your information before making statements involving me.
I am perfectly chilled.
Martin.
A bit of banter's always good for the old ticker!
Stef.
31 August 2000, 07:09 PM
#29
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Phil,
Maybe you should review some of your previous threads.
WRX Failures, I can't believe it, Racing fuel trackday services, etc', etc'.
Mark.
[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 31 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 31 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 31 August 2000).]
Maybe you should review some of your previous threads.
WRX Failures, I can't believe it, Racing fuel trackday services, etc', etc'.
Mark.
[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 31 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 31 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 31 August 2000).]
31 August 2000, 07:46 PM
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Hmmm very good that's why when I spoke to a BBS reader last night - after he telephoned me for advice - I refered him to a variety of AP suppliers.
FWIW I don't think this thread was scare mongering.
It has de-generated into a **** fight.
FWIW I don't think this thread was scare mongering.
It has de-generated into a **** fight.