Brembos - Scary!
04 August 2000, 12:17 AM
#1
Same post on 22b.com but for info...
"Some of you may be aware that I had a "moment" @ Silverstone recently, when braking late & hard at the end of hanger, my pedal "dropped" an inch & I nearly "dropped" a load too.
My Brems are 3 months old (recent slotted & increased floating dia type) with (now) 260 Track & 2000 road miles.
My "moment" happened 2 laps from the end of the last session. I drove it easy, with apparently normal bite, for the remainder. After I changed back to road tyres & made to drive home with Mike R, I heard a grinding sound. Checked & saw what seemed to be scoring by the pad backing plate on the disk hanger, so thought nothing to worry bout (but drove home like a wuss , cringing everytime I touched the brakes).
Spoke to Pete C who reckoned that I may have induced the ABS to come on.
Arranged a visit to SS on Wed to change pads (Cambridgeshire to Basildon & touched brakes twice
). Took all the pads out & looked at them - 3 of the 4 had at least half pad material left, the 4th was METAL 
It has very badly scored the disk
Chat again with Pete C....
The remaining part of the pad material on disk 4, parted company from backing plate under heavy braking
EEEK!
That is what the sudden inch was about. I didn't think I was suffering from brake fade! Pete says that he has had a few similar instances in the last year.
Brembo will be supplying new disks & pads "
For the record, I have NOT lost confidence in them.
"Some of you may be aware that I had a "moment" @ Silverstone recently, when braking late & hard at the end of hanger, my pedal "dropped" an inch & I nearly "dropped" a load too.
My Brems are 3 months old (recent slotted & increased floating dia type) with (now) 260 Track & 2000 road miles.
My "moment" happened 2 laps from the end of the last session. I drove it easy, with apparently normal bite, for the remainder. After I changed back to road tyres & made to drive home with Mike R, I heard a grinding sound. Checked & saw what seemed to be scoring by the pad backing plate on the disk hanger, so thought nothing to worry bout (but drove home like a wuss , cringing everytime I touched the brakes).
Spoke to Pete C who reckoned that I may have induced the ABS to come on.
Arranged a visit to SS on Wed to change pads (Cambridgeshire to Basildon & touched brakes twice
). Took all the pads out & looked at them - 3 of the 4 had at least half pad material left, the 4th was METAL It has very badly scored the disk Chat again with Pete C....
The remaining part of the pad material on disk 4, parted company from backing plate under heavy braking
EEEK!
That is what the sudden inch was about. I didn't think I was suffering from brake fade! Pete says that he has had a few similar instances in the last year.
Brembo will be supplying new disks & pads
"For the record, I have NOT lost confidence in them.
04 August 2000, 01:57 PM
#2
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Yikes, 
What sort of pad are you running? Pagid or Brembo? It's worrying that Pete says he's seen this happen before, did he say they were always the same pad type?
Has Pete swapped your discs and pads yet?
Moray
What sort of pad are you running? Pagid or Brembo? It's worrying that Pete says he's seen this happen before, did he say they were always the same pad type?
Has Pete swapped your discs and pads yet?
Moray
04 August 2000, 02:15 PM
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If this happened before...as stated, they whats being done about it ?
Is ScoobySport doing a recall on the parts/people concerned ?
I would say that its a manufacturing defect... so is Scoobysport or Brembo liable if anything happens ?
J.
Is ScoobySport doing a recall on the parts/people concerned ?
I would say that its a manufacturing defect... so is Scoobysport or Brembo liable if anything happens ?
J.
04 August 2000, 08:07 PM
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James
SNAP !! Exact same symptoms on discs fitted 2 days befors SStone
This is the second instance in my case
(confidence wavering in Brembo not in Scoobysport )
[This message has been edited by DocJock (edited 04 August 2000).]
SNAP !! Exact same symptoms on discs fitted 2 days befors SStone
This is the second instance in my case
(confidence wavering in Brembo not in Scoobysport )
[This message has been edited by DocJock (edited 04 August 2000).]
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07 August 2000, 01:11 PM
#12
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Hi,
I also have the 4 pot Brembo calipers with 320/28mm cross-drilled discs and Brembo pads that are part of the "Motorquality Brembo kit"(fitted here in Portugal).
Since new, the brakes always made a low-frequency noise (just like a rubbing noise)when braking hard but the braking power seems OK. The tunning house that fitted and sold me the kit said that this noise is normal and Motorquality also stated the same opinion after I informed them (by email) about this noise...
So, now I'm starting to wonder if the noise is really normal or if these companies are just trying to run away from their waranty responsabilities...
But one last question is: could this noise be caused by the original Brembo pads??? I thnk I will find out when I have to change them for a DS2000 compound...
regards,
Gustavo
I also have the 4 pot Brembo calipers with 320/28mm cross-drilled discs and Brembo pads that are part of the "Motorquality Brembo kit"(fitted here in Portugal).
Since new, the brakes always made a low-frequency noise (just like a rubbing noise)when braking hard but the braking power seems OK. The tunning house that fitted and sold me the kit said that this noise is normal and Motorquality also stated the same opinion after I informed them (by email) about this noise...
So, now I'm starting to wonder if the noise is really normal or if these companies are just trying to run away from their waranty responsabilities...
But one last question is: could this noise be caused by the original Brembo pads??? I thnk I will find out when I have to change them for a DS2000 compound...
regards,
Gustavo
07 August 2000, 11:15 PM
#14
Gustavo
The sound the brakes seem to make to me, is the sound of efficient brakes doing their job.
I had an instructor with me at Snetterton & he commented that though the brakes made a noise & seemed to judder slightly, it did not affect either the steering or the wheels & therefore was nothing to worry about. I too do not feel there is a problem whilst braking. I believe that this may be due to riding bikes where all the good quality brakes I've had "sing" to me under load. My present bike, SRAD, still does that (6 pots on a bike - overkill? 
) Despite the pad failure mentioned (& not then), I have had no problem stopping effectively & efficiently with this set-up.
Harj
I had a race spec dot whatever in the pipes. Once pad had gone (along with my guts), braking efficiency was still there. I don't think Silverstone is too hard a circuit on the brakes, specially with 40 min breaks between sesh.
The sound the brakes seem to make to me, is the sound of efficient brakes doing their job.
I had an instructor with me at Snetterton & he commented that though the brakes made a noise & seemed to judder slightly, it did not affect either the steering or the wheels & therefore was nothing to worry about. I too do not feel there is a problem whilst braking. I believe that this may be due to riding bikes where all the good quality brakes I've had "sing" to me under load. My present bike, SRAD, still does that
(6 pots on a bike - overkill? ) Despite the pad failure mentioned (& not then), I have had no problem stopping effectively & efficiently with this set-up.Harj
I had a race spec dot whatever in the pipes. Once pad had gone (along with my guts), braking efficiency was still there. I don't think Silverstone is too hard a circuit on the brakes, specially with 40 min breaks between sesh.
08 August 2000, 12:09 AM
#15
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If you have drilled or grooved discs, your brakes will always make a noise. It is normally just the holes/grooves rubbing the surface of the pad and is therefore completely acceptable.
Harj.
I think you are getting confused with Mike R's problem, as he had no heatshield protecting his brake fluid reservoir from his turbo. He cooked his fluid causing his brakes to completely disappear.
Not a problem in The Scoob, at least not if you keep your heatshield in place!
Stef.
Harj.
I think you are getting confused with Mike R's problem, as he had no heatshield protecting his brake fluid reservoir from his turbo. He cooked his fluid causing his brakes to completely disappear.
Not a problem in The Scoob, at least not if you keep your heatshield in place!
Stef.
08 August 2000, 12:23 AM
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Hello!
Another thing that I discovered just a few days ago is the fact that the Motorquality Brembo disc cups (or bells)are thicker than the original MY98 disc bells, resulting in a wider front track!! It seems that Motorquality/Brembo deliberatly made the cups thicker in order to have wheel clearence in a bigger number of wheel models so the bigger Brembo calipers would fit.
But will this wider front track affect the car's stability and behaviour?!?? Shouldn't the rear track also be adjusted in conformity with the new front track width??
And how to compensate the rear track width?? With spacers?? What maximum thickness should these spacers have??
Regards,
Gustavo
Another thing that I discovered just a few days ago is the fact that the Motorquality Brembo disc cups (or bells)are thicker than the original MY98 disc bells, resulting in a wider front track!! It seems that Motorquality/Brembo deliberatly made the cups thicker in order to have wheel clearence in a bigger number of wheel models so the bigger Brembo calipers would fit.
But will this wider front track affect the car's stability and behaviour?!?? Shouldn't the rear track also be adjusted in conformity with the new front track width??
And how to compensate the rear track width?? With spacers?? What maximum thickness should these spacers have??
Regards,
Gustavo
08 August 2000, 12:58 AM
#17
Gus
Interesting point. At Silverstone, Tyres N'hampton pointed this out & suggested that longer wheel studs should be used as not enough turns to lock with originals.
I suppose increased width between tyres should lead to better roadholding
Interesting point. At Silverstone, Tyres N'hampton pointed this out & suggested that longer wheel studs should be used as not enough turns to lock with originals.
I suppose increased width between tyres should lead to better roadholding
08 August 2000, 03:39 PM
#18
Loosing the pad material from the backing plate is very dangerous, you are very lucky the opposite side brake did not have enough extra bite to steer you sideways.
The pad material overheating usually causes this problem, this causes large cracks in the pad’s friction material, and this then distorts and breaks the bonding with the backing plate.
In severe pad overheating cases the back plate can distort and become convex, this causes the pad friction surface to peal away from the backing plate.
I suggest we all use some AP Temperature paint and paint our disks and pads before the next track day, lets see what temperatures we are getting and then we can start to make some informed choices on pads and cooling.
I am prepared to buy the paint and then bring it with me if people who are interested will put some money towards it. It is quite expensive but I will gladly let you use it for a small fee.
We should have enough time during the day to get everyone’s disks and pads painted up, I am sure mark and the guys from Tyres Northampton would be up for doing the work for a fee.
What do you think??
Of course Stef could have a word with the AP guys and get us a temp paint kit FOC!! From memory I think its about £80 for a small 3 temp kit.
On the wheel nuts/studs I would not be happy unless I had the full length of the thread through the nut, normally a minimum rough guide is to have 1.5 times the thread diameter in length through the nut, any less is a bit dodgy IMHO.
The pad material overheating usually causes this problem, this causes large cracks in the pad’s friction material, and this then distorts and breaks the bonding with the backing plate.
In severe pad overheating cases the back plate can distort and become convex, this causes the pad friction surface to peal away from the backing plate.
I suggest we all use some AP Temperature paint and paint our disks and pads before the next track day, lets see what temperatures we are getting and then we can start to make some informed choices on pads and cooling.
I am prepared to buy the paint and then bring it with me if people who are interested will put some money towards it. It is quite expensive but I will gladly let you use it for a small fee.
We should have enough time during the day to get everyone’s disks and pads painted up, I am sure mark and the guys from Tyres Northampton would be up for doing the work for a fee.
What do you think??
Of course Stef could have a word with the AP guys and get us a temp paint kit FOC!! From memory I think its about £80 for a small 3 temp kit.
On the wheel nuts/studs I would not be happy unless I had the full length of the thread through the nut, normally a minimum rough guide is to have 1.5 times the thread diameter in length through the nut, any less is a bit dodgy IMHO.
09 August 2000, 10:06 PM
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John.
I used this paint when I first tested the AP/Scoobymania kit at Donno last year.
The all three clours turned white, indicating temperatures of approx 600-700 degrees!
This was using AP Japan pads.
On Friday I will be testing the Ferodo DS3000's with new discs, and these are expected to reach even higher temps!
I'll give him a call though, see what I can scrounge!
Stef.
I used this paint when I first tested the AP/Scoobymania kit at Donno last year.
The all three clours turned white, indicating temperatures of approx 600-700 degrees!
This was using AP Japan pads.
On Friday I will be testing the Ferodo DS3000's with new discs, and these are expected to reach even higher temps!
I'll give him a call though, see what I can scrounge!
Stef.
10 August 2000, 11:40 AM
#20
nice one stef.
If you saw the full thickness of the disk going white then your disks are getting too hot.
Ideally what you need is for only the first 2-3mm on the hottest paint to go white from the disk outer edge inwards, the paint on the cooling vane on the hottest paint should not change colour.
you need to get some ducting to the disk centre eyes ASAP if you want optimum pad performance.
Out of interest, what are the rears doing??
If you saw the full thickness of the disk going white then your disks are getting too hot.
Ideally what you need is for only the first 2-3mm on the hottest paint to go white from the disk outer edge inwards, the paint on the cooling vane on the hottest paint should not change colour.
you need to get some ducting to the disk centre eyes ASAP if you want optimum pad performance.
Out of interest, what are the rears doing??
10 August 2000, 02:21 PM
#21
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John.
The paint was only put on the outside of the disc, as anywhere else it would surely have been removed by the pads?
Anyway, the red didn't go completely white, but AP did suggest some ducting would help. I have already cut away part of the back plate to accomodate this, but haven't found an ideal way to duct air as yet.
Had the new discs and pads fitted today.
Those DS3000's are bloody mental!
Stef.
The paint was only put on the outside of the disc, as anywhere else it would surely have been removed by the pads?
Anyway, the red didn't go completely white, but AP did suggest some ducting would help. I have already cut away part of the back plate to accomodate this, but haven't found an ideal way to duct air as yet.
Had the new discs and pads fitted today.
Those DS3000's are bloody mental!
Stef.
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