Fine tuning Newage STI setup
26 August 2013, 10:22 PM
#1
Fine tuning Newage STI setup
Looking at fine tuning my setup on my Newage STI
Current mods are:
BC coilovers
24mm rear ARB
22mm front ARB
Drop links (the C shape ones)
JDM front trut brace
Fast road/track geo
I'll be adding an ALK soon, possibly the front roll kit aswell.
On a recent track evening I had more understeer than I wanted, although it was a greasy track.
BC's were on 25 clicks front and rear, front ARB on soft, rear ARB on medium.
What settings would people recommend I look at with the BC's and the ARB's?
Anything else I should look at?
Current mods are:
BC coilovers
24mm rear ARB
22mm front ARB
Drop links (the C shape ones)
JDM front trut brace
Fast road/track geo
I'll be adding an ALK soon, possibly the front roll kit aswell.
On a recent track evening I had more understeer than I wanted, although it was a greasy track.
BC's were on 25 clicks front and rear, front ARB on soft, rear ARB on medium.
What settings would people recommend I look at with the BC's and the ARB's?
Anything else I should look at?
27 August 2013, 02:27 AM
#4
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In the Flatlands of Lincolnshire
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deffo get the ALK and roll centre/bump steer mod done then get the Geo done. I have powerflex bushing throughout and tightens things up nicely. As if your bushes are worn then the geo will alter as soon as you move the car due to softer bushes.
27 August 2013, 07:54 AM
#6
If you're getting understeer, then two things I would look at - ride height & front roll resistance
A 22m front bar, set on the firmest of the two settings, will increase front AND rear end grip as well as rear traction in most situations. Sometimes this is perceived as increase in understeer, but the reality is that the increased rear traction can now 'push through' the front end grip. The overall grip will be higher and the car will have a more benign balance.
Lowering. If you have a fair bit of lowering, then you will have too much front roll and therefore a possibility to hang onto the bumpstop on the outside front during corners. While this is a good reason for firming your front arb setting, it's also a good reason for considering roll centre correction, but all this depends on how much lowering you run. A pic of your car static and mid corner would be good
But I suspect a little understeer would be dialled out with a firmer front arb setting
A 22m front bar, set on the firmest of the two settings, will increase front AND rear end grip as well as rear traction in most situations. Sometimes this is perceived as increase in understeer, but the reality is that the increased rear traction can now 'push through' the front end grip. The overall grip will be higher and the car will have a more benign balance.
Lowering. If you have a fair bit of lowering, then you will have too much front roll and therefore a possibility to hang onto the bumpstop on the outside front during corners. While this is a good reason for firming your front arb setting, it's also a good reason for considering roll centre correction, but all this depends on how much lowering you run. A pic of your car static and mid corner would be good
But I suspect a little understeer would be dialled out with a firmer front arb setting
Last edited by bonesetter; 27 August 2013 at 08:17 AM.
27 August 2013, 10:21 AM
#7
Excellent, that is very helpful.
Hopefully these pics will be handy to see how low it's getting....
and normal ride height (it is pretty low)....
I changed the rear ARB yesterday to the firmest setting, and it certainly feels more positive, i may have to change the front setting aswell.
Hopefully these pics will be handy to see how low it's getting....
and normal ride height (it is pretty low)....
I changed the rear ARB yesterday to the firmest setting, and it certainly feels more positive, i may have to change the front setting aswell.
Trending Topics
Make sure when you get the ALK you go for KCA359M which is the Motorsport bushing rather than the ***** bushing
27 August 2013, 10:44 AM
#9
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Similiar to Moley on the same car - nice to see peoples responses on what the possibilities are to reduce the common understeer on these cars.
I have:
BC coilovers
Whiteline rear ARB - set on medium (i think)
Whiteline ALK
Drop links (standard solid ones, advised not necessary required to change)
Cars lowered on the BC's but not that low IMHO
Fast road/track geo.
Interested in the roll correction kits, struts, front ARB (???) etc
I have:
BC coilovers
Whiteline rear ARB - set on medium (i think)
Whiteline ALK
Drop links (standard solid ones, advised not necessary required to change)
Cars lowered on the BC's but not that low IMHO
Fast road/track geo.
Interested in the roll correction kits, struts, front ARB (???) etc
27 August 2013, 01:19 PM
#10
Almost certainly, your understeer will be down to the amount of lowering.
The roll centre will have moved very low indeed, probably below the ground. Normally this does create some strange handling characteristics as well as the distance between the COG and RC being a bit on the high side, increasing the tendency to roll at the front, not to mention going into positive camber mid-turn, and resting on the bumpstops. With your low ride height, you are already deep into the positive camber arc of the strut/control arm. You will have very little grip on your outside front wheel as soon as you turn as you'll be driving on the shoulders of the tires the whole time. You may actually experience some coil bind or full engagement of the bumpstop on that outside wheel leading to a large increase in spring rate and more understeer.
A roll centre kit is a must at that height (along with firming up the front arb). Firming up rear roll resistance does help reduce understeer, but in your case doing that is trying to compensate for what the front is (or not) doing
Personally I would run the front a little higher, at the expense of looks, for better handling and increased grip levels
The roll centre will have moved very low indeed, probably below the ground. Normally this does create some strange handling characteristics as well as the distance between the COG and RC being a bit on the high side, increasing the tendency to roll at the front, not to mention going into positive camber mid-turn, and resting on the bumpstops. With your low ride height, you are already deep into the positive camber arc of the strut/control arm. You will have very little grip on your outside front wheel as soon as you turn as you'll be driving on the shoulders of the tires the whole time. You may actually experience some coil bind or full engagement of the bumpstop on that outside wheel leading to a large increase in spring rate and more understeer.
A roll centre kit is a must at that height (along with firming up the front arb). Firming up rear roll resistance does help reduce understeer, but in your case doing that is trying to compensate for what the front is (or not) doing
Personally I would run the front a little higher, at the expense of looks, for better handling and increased grip levels
27 August 2013, 08:22 PM
#11
Thank you, that's certainly a huge help.
The front was higher before, but I was advised to lower it slightly, and in doing so it made the turn in much sharper. May lift it with the new settings though.
Definitely going for the roll centre kit, and after a spirited drive this evening putting the rear ARB on the firm setting has made a big difference.
The front was higher before, but I was advised to lower it slightly, and in doing so it made the turn in much sharper. May lift it with the new settings though.
Definitely going for the roll centre kit, and after a spirited drive this evening putting the rear ARB on the firm setting has made a big difference.
28 August 2013, 06:36 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Yorkshire / Boston, MA
Posts: 1,907
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I set my BC ER coilovers up based on a "baseline" provided in a review I'd read, and the fronts are setup stiffer than the rears. It feels good, but not really got anything to compare it to!
28 August 2013, 07:11 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Yorkshire / Boston, MA
Posts: 1,907
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It basically comprises of Track Rod Ends and Lower Balljoints which are taller, pushing your control arms back down into optimal range for the geometry when on lowered suspension... or something like that.
Popular kits are whiteline and super-pro, I've got the superpro one and can't complain - seems like a quality kit.
Popular kits are whiteline and super-pro, I've got the superpro one and can't complain - seems like a quality kit.
28 August 2013, 11:42 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In the Flatlands of Lincolnshire
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The castor mod with rotating the top mount is not that simple. You need to swap the topmounts over from left to right to get them to do the adjustment.
28 August 2013, 11:45 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In the Flatlands of Lincolnshire
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Demon Tweeks have the prices on their site as a front kit and a rear kit. I am not sure if you can buy straight from powerflex. I sourced mine over a month online using this site and fleebay to get everything I wanted at the best price.
28 August 2013, 11:53 PM
#22
Funny you mention that as I thought that. However, I gained 1.2deg caster / castor (not sure which spelling is right...) just from rotating the top mounts. So it looks like the below:
What more would there to be gained from swapping them over from side to side?
Thanks
What more would there to be gained from swapping them over from side to side?
Thanks
29 August 2013, 12:46 AM
#23
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: MSOC
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Setting the front too stiff will make you understeer more too.... Play with it bud... althought front has to be a bit harder than rear as its heavier .... suspension has to work , so making a car too stiff is not necessary a good thing. Depending on the tracks surface it can start to skip , loosing traction. Our non dccd boxes with a **** front diff is not a helper either. I had to udjust my approach/driving style to eliminate/get rid of it a bit.... They just doesn't like when you drive them smoothly. .. my personal experience. I was faster in a more aggressive way in and out of the corner... Smooth application made me to slow alot and coming outof corner gradually pressing the axelearor made it understeer to the outer edge of the track. Sorry for the broken english , hope that helps...
29 August 2013, 02:33 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Yorkshire / Boston, MA
Posts: 1,907
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Funny you mention that as I thought that. However, I gained 1.2deg caster / castor (not sure which spelling is right...) just from rotating the top mounts. So it looks like the below:
What more would there to be gained from swapping them over from side to side?
Thanks
What more would there to be gained from swapping them over from side to side?
Thanks
30 August 2013, 11:58 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny you mention that as I thought that. However, I gained 1.2deg caster / castor (not sure which spelling is right...) just from rotating the top mounts. So it looks like the below:
What more would there to be gained from swapping them over from side to side?
Thanks
What more would there to be gained from swapping them over from side to side?
Thanks