JamesS

I have a UK 00MY 5DR with quite a few powertrain extra`s, getting up to 300PS

Running 17inch and AP4pots.

I`m after a slightly more balanced feel to the car, with less pitch, roll, squat........

I`m going to get the Eibach spring kit......

A couple of weeks ago there was an interview with the whiteline MD (I think) on the auotspeed site and he stated that the best initial mods for the scoob to reduce power-on understeer and improve general body control was an uprated (and adjustable) rear anti-roll bar and an anti-lift kit.

Now anyone got the anti-lift kit and care to comment?

I thought there was some discussion a while ago about the anti-lift kit distorting the original mountings and having loads of pre-load in the bushes etc. Anyone comment?

Cheers!

daw

I don't have the anti lift kit, but I do have an adjustable 22mm rear bar. Very highly recommended mod. It greatly reduces understeer and lets you get higher cornering speed. It's an excellent bang for your bucks no brainer

The anti lift kit always causes debate. Some love it, others don't. Overall, I have heard good things about it though it does increase NVH (if this is a concern?).

David

NBW

James,

I have Eibachs on my 5 door and can recommend them highly with a full geometry check (done at a certain place near Nottigham - no connection - Hi Paul!). Body roll and poise are greatly improved.

However, the nose still does lift under hard acceleration - but then what do you expect with that power?

Cheers
Tim

daw

What Trouser should have said is - an alignment to within one or two minutes of the perfect set up all round will provide lovely neutral manners once the springs have been fitnhted - up to about 7/10. Then some serious understeer sets in. It's pretty safe and probably a good thing for 80% of drivers but fitting a stiffer rear bar will give you a better balanced car.

Regards,

David

JamesS

Thanks chaps....any more comments?

Neil F

Hi James.

I have Eibachs and 17's with maximum negative equal camber set, and I'm inclined to agree with Daw that the car is great up to 7 maybe 8/10ths. I have not tried the rear roll bar upgrade but have been considering the Powerstation bump steer correction for a while.
I also dismissed the anti lift kit for the same reasons as you state. I remember seeing a picture of the front bushes and was shocked by how distorted they were.
Suprisingly enough, I found that I got the most noticable improvement in understeer when I switched to 17" rims (I'd already done my Eibachs by then) and I'd really only bought the wheels for the looks.

Neil.

NBW

Hmmmm...... it's possible that people's interpretations 8/10 are the issue here:

My car still understeers a little, even with the geometry and Eibachs. However, applying more power corrects this, and from then on corners <cliche alert> like it's on rails, to the point where I cannot believe the grip, wet or dry!

I think, from what I've read, that this is a trait of 4wd cars.

Don't mean to insult anyones driving or intelligence, just suggesting finding a big open space with nothing to hit and 'exploring' the handling a little

Interesting comments about 17's though - stiffer sidewall must make a big difference. Best wear my (16") tyres out then, so I can try 17's

Cheers
Tim

Neil F

NBW.

I take your point about the 8/10ths; it is a very subjective description open to interpretation.
I guess what I am saying is that as my car stands now I can plough into a corner at higher (ludicrous to your average Mondeo owner!) speeds than with the standard setup where understeer was an acknowledged "problem". And yes, under most conditions biting the bullet and applying more power will drag me out of any understeer that is starting to come on (I did this just the other night trying to provoke some oversteer and was suprised to just launch myself up the road like I couldn't believe!).
I am actually very happy with the handling now and find the balance quite predictable.
However, I find that when the limit is reached, the tendancy will be to understeer/4 wheel drift instead of oversteer.
Having grown up with rear wheel drive cars I would prefer the latter (hence my interest in the Powerstation mod) but for now, for me, the handling is "8/10ths" there!

I suppose the question is, is my 8/10ths is the same as DAW's?

Neil.

NBW

Neil,

If you're getting into a 4wd drift, I would say that equals 8/10 (at least).

This is a good site for this sort of stuff:

http://www.drivingtechniques.co.uk

Cheers
Tim

JamesS

Good stuff.

I`m going with the springs and solid rear links for now.......

daw

NBW,

Take your car to the track. Suddenly you'll have quite a lot of understeer :-)

Regards,

David

JIM THEO

Hi all
Just a stupid question:
Today I fitted my new Prodrive prof susp kit (MY00) and noticed that the new rear anti roll bar which comes with the kit is thinner (18mm) than the original item!!!
Is this because of the harder spring/shock combination for friendly feeling and less lift off oversteer or is wrong ARB sent by Prodrive?
IMHO they should be use thicker ARB for better turn-in response but I am not expert on this...
Could someone with the above kit confirm this (Hoppy maybe)?
Thanks in advance!
JIM

daw

Jim,

The Prodrive kit may have a thinner rear bar if Prodrive increased the rear spring rates by a significantly greater amount than they did the front. This is a similar concept to a thicker rear bar in that stiffening up the rear reduces understeer. It is probably a better solution as long as you drive on very smooth roads. Not too great once you hit the bumps though.

Regards,

David

mutant_matt

OK, all IMHO of course .....

Eibachs, great at reducing body roll, sharper turn in and less "floaty" when really pressing on Essential mod!!!!!!

Anti-Lift, I LOVE this mod - not only do you get rid of power on understeer on the exits of bends, but the increase in NVH is actually a plus point - the steering feel from the new bushes is fantastic - before I thought the feel of my car was far too remote - now I can "feel" the road - down to what type of surface....if you want a drivers car, this mod is for you. If you want a fast cruising car, you may get tired with the extra info being fed your way.....

Bump Steer Mod, no-one's mentioned this but this IMHO is the most important mod. Most of the entry understeer (and general vaugeness at speed (you know when you can't really tell where the limit is?)) gets sorted out with this (including proper Geometry setup).

I went for all of the above ( ) in stages (so that I could tell what each but does) and my car now is 100% improved on the original car. In the dry, the front end is really planted, causing 4 wheel drift moving towards oversteer on the exit. In the wet, you can induce understeer on entry if you go in too hot, but you can go in a good 20-30mph faster than on the standard car and the rest of the corner is 4 wheel drift teritory (leading to fantastic slighshot out of bends )

Do it, you know it makes sence

Matt

Deep Singh

Can vouch for the adjustable rear arb, makes a big difference(IMHO).By the way someone called Deep Singh is selling his in the for sale section at a very reasonable price

Trouser

Hi James

an alignment to within one or two minutes of the perfect set up all round will provide lovely neutral manners once the springs have been fitted. There are many places that can do this for you. ...er....one in Nottingham springs to mind.

I am not knocking the anti lift-kit if that's your thing. But if it was such a great improvement on handling I am surprised that Subaru did not incorporate those revised mounting points in the build spec for homologation. As they did with all of the other components that they wanted on the car for Group N .. IMHO of course

Cheers

trouser

(editeeed fur pur spelin)

[Edited by Trouser - 3/7/2002 10:33:01 AM]