Big T

Hiya peeps,

Im about to git a set of JIC Coilovers to the scoob, but i need to know wot cabers setting to set them to, they got adjustable top mounts marked in a scale with 0 in the middle, is this the correct setting as standard or do I have to set them to +1 degree, etc,etc!?

warrenm2

aim for about -1.5 degress - dunno how you get that though....

Big T

Cheers mate! The top mounts are adjustable, with degrees marked on them, so no probs there!

911

Sorry, i do not think it is that simple.
You do need to get the car aligned properly. When done i think you may find the marks on the top mounts will be in different positions due to fctory body tolerances.
However, if you want to alter the camber then you can use the graduations with confidence to change both sides equally.
Remember that every change in the top mount positions technically changes the toe position.
911

911

Sorry again, the 1.5 deg negative is right !
911

Big T

I agree with wot ure saying, but surely the standard shocks would be out of alignment to due to the body intolerances??

stockcar

yes.................but this is adjusted by the "camber bolts" in the top position of the two bolts that hold your strut to the hub.................
you really need a camber gauge, etc. to be able to adjust this properly!!

alyn - asperformance.com

911

You just have to have the alignment done right.
No short cut.
911

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Agree with the comments

You MUST get the geometry sorted out on a proper machine, even after this if you do a few track days or a fair few miles you have to get it rechecked fairly often as even hitting a pot hole can potentially cause the geometry to go out of kilter as I have found

Agree with 1.5 negative, thats what I use with rear camber bolts..... - it will wear the tyres out rather quickly though......though not as quickly as some people running 2 negative that I know of - better for track but costs a fortune in tyre rubber!!

911

Yes..I have 2.5 deg neg all round on my hill climb car...but it does grip in the bends.
911

Claudius

-1.5 front, right... what about the rear?

911

IMHO 1.5 neg.
911

Claudius

IMHO that's too much

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

In answer to the question - 1.5 degree all round - although you may need rear camber bolts to accurately/easily get that at the rear.............


Claudius

Why do you think that is too much - have you done loads of track days.........?

1.5 degree is what most go for......... some can go up to 3 negative, depends how quickly you wanna go through the tyres. 1.5 negative is a nice compromise between tyre wear and handling........ if you go less the car is not as good on the road or track

Claudius

Fangoria: I was talking about the rear wheels there.

DeanF

iTrader: (1)

www.sidc.co.uk & llok on the FAQ section , then suspension, has settings on there

Dean

911

Perhaps i can add that I get the settings from Whiteline themselves, they run Radial road tyres (as I do) and if you run cross ply slicks then 1.5 deg may be too much for those tyres.
Running on hill climbs is very different to trackdays. it is all a compramise and opinions vary. Good there is a debate though!

911

Claudius

Let's put it this way: if you run the same camber in the rear as in the front, you are giving the front a little more grip than in standard form (with no camber front and -1 rear). If you run less rear camber, you take some more grip away from the rear, effectively giving the front more. That's how I personally like it (not to be confused with "this is how it should be", as that's a matter of personal preference). I like the rear to lose grip progressively to help me turn in and accelerate early, especially as my classic has no front diff. Of course, if you like your geometry set up differently, then that's fine with me! No doubt that for hillclimbing and / or track days, with slicks etc, these rough guidelines might not necessarily apply.

DeanF

iTrader: (1)

I suppose it is down to applying a setting which is favourable to the driver, I.e not to much premature tyre wear & good enough handling characteristics.
I have just fitted a set of AST fast road coilovers (replaced my Apex coilovers) these just have standard bolt holes (not slotted like the apex) so camber is fixed & the tyres are fouling the rear arches under compression due to, to much positive camber, Camber bolts required ASAP

Dean

warrenm2

there are better ways to adjust handling balance (like an adjustable rear ARB), reducing grip in any situation is not something i would advise people to do, increase grip at the other end/side - now thats what i'd advise! ;-)

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, its all about getting the right balance....

First thing to do is to get an antilift kit to any Scoob to sort out the dire understeer............

I find with uprated front and rear ARB bars the handling can be very twitchy - especially if you have weight in the boot

I also have replaced the useless carbon front strut brace and put a rear strut brace in as well as rear drop links......

and then theres the set up with the rear camber bolts.....

I wasnt aware that the AST did not have camber adjustment with it........ My set up though is currently fine for the Track so I dont fancy forking out £1400 for the AST kit (inc Fitting and set up)

911

I 'did' my car in two bites.
1
ALK, basic Whiteline geometry, and Whiteline ARB. Toyo tyres. (16's). nice car, but tooooo much understeer.

2
Add to the above:
AVO coil-overs (yuk), MRT top mounts, camber bolts all round. Strengthened ARB mounts, wider/adjustable rear lower arms, full poly bushes in suspension and rear diff cage mounts. Front lower brace, 17's and Kumho V70's. Full race Whiteline geometry (hence 2.5 deg neg)

Result?

hard, harsh and a bit hairy, but does it ever grip.

Each to their own. enjoy the comments from everyone.

DeanF

iTrader: (1)

Well what a day, Go to have the geometry set up !!! Ended up fitting adjustable lower rear arms to correct a camber problem , which they have done , but tyres know foul the arches under compression as the adjustable arms have pushed the wheels outwards, because the top is fixed & because the postion of these (lower part of the rear hub) alters toe mainly , the camber seems to be a side effect of pushing the bottom.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/default....tingsheets.htm
SO new arms fitted & camber bolts £23.00 worth still req.
Wind arms back in Fit bolts & set the Geometry again

Dean

911

Dean, i have the Whiteline rear lower arms on my Sti v3.
The rear track is noticably wider, but, with camber bolts in the rear everything fits and no rubbing with 17 x 205 x 40's or 16 x 205 x 50's. (and 2.5 deg neg)

No wonder you are naffed....

911

DeanF

iTrader: (1)

911, Have just re-inspected & notice also that the endfloat has been removed from the drive shafts, There really taught, Yes i am naffed, as i never had this issue with my previous set Question ?
I take it you managed to get 2.5 Deg because of using the combination of arms & bolts, Is it 1.5 with the bolts alone ?? Hows your Tyre wear ?? & do you have just one camber bolt per leg ??

All questions im afraid .
Right back in the Garage, Another late night, WOrk does interfere with Modding

Dean

911

The set up was done by Raliart in West Midlands to my (Whiteline radical) spec.
The lower arms were 'extended' to add no more than 10mm to the track.
This would give more neg camber on it's own, but i had fitted each corner with camber bolts, just one in the back in the 'top' hole.
this was done to give me max adjustment to achieve the Whiteline geometry. I know some people fit 2 bolts per corner to give (stupid) negative camber, BUT, the Jap touring Cars run huge neg camber....
The bolts alone will give about 1.5/2.0 deg neg depending on the tolerences in the shell and other related parts.
If the drive shafts have 'lost' their end float then this is seriously bad. If the car has to travers a very undulating road/hump back bridge, then real damage could (will) result. I still have good end float in mine.

The tyre wear is flat and even @ 2.5! It is better than at the front, but I am running about 8 deg caster too...

Properly done you will get a very well handling chassis. it took Raliart a full 6 man hours to dial it all in, and I had fitted all the parts! This included corner weighting for one person.

If I can help further just contact me.

911

DeanF

iTrader: (1)

I have now backed off the lower arms & re-instated the end float as i was worried about the effects on rough surfaces (Oops there pops a diff & drive shaft). measured my old coilovers from damper body to centre of bolt hole 45mm New coliovers approx (as still fitted) 55mm, so the new ones are widening the track prior to adjustment !!! Then after setting toe & camber gave the drive shaft issue, So with the correct bolts i should be able to correct the situation.
Thanks for your Input , I'll let you know how i go on .

Cheers
Dean

Oh yes & as for your Headers, I would fit them, Although it does mean un-bolting the Turbo again to fit your new one, They gave a vast improvement on Mine

911

But did you change anything else, or will I be ok addind the headers and doing nothing else (yet) to the otherwise stock, decate engine?
911

DeanF

iTrader: (1)

No did not change anything else, Just an Ecu reset. ALready had in place uprated fuel pump, Prodrive Ecu. Although i will be fitting some 550 cc injectors Ready for an Apexi Ecu & remap.
Afr readings were ok after the headers

Dean

DeanF

iTrader: (1)

Right just incase anybody else is head scratching Shockers are AST.

Just had a call from the company i purchased the shockers from, They have had a call from the official distributer for the AST shockers, They have fitted a set to the same year as Mine & have the exact same problem !!!!! .They cannot contact the Manufacturer in Holland as they are on shutdown , A manufacturing error is suspected but cannot be confirmed, But a set of Camber Bolts has solved this issue for the distributer.

Customer relations with the companies Involved has been impeccable & cannot be faulted as they have / are striving for a solution..