Theo

I saw recently the DMS suspension kits at Scoobymania and MRT.....does anybody have more info abouth these Suspension-kits ??

Everybody knows the Leda's ofcourse andd they are perfect,...but how are these ?

...and are they available for the MY01 WRX

IWatkins

Theo,

Cannot answer all your questions, but DMS (Drummond) have a website at

Mike Tuckwood

Theo, these are a level (at least) up from Leda.

I have been running the competition kit on my car (50mm struts) for over a year and they are Very good.... probably too good.

You need to know about suspension set-up in depth to take full advantage of them.

I am currently running the DMS Gold kit (40mm struts) on my car and it is nothing short of stunning.

Going from Limo smooth (any speed you like over speed bumps) without a hiccup) to Track Hard.

Bump and rebound on the same 30 click adjuster. I'm impressed and would gladly and eagerly recommend the Gold kit. <I>I think the comp kit is too focussed for sensible road use.</I>

Mike.

Pete Croney

Ian

The problem of rattling affected 18 cars and 3 (all pressurised option C units) developed seal leaks.

The problems with the rattle were designed out some time ago and if you read the thread about this in this section, you would see that all customers with this problem had new internals fitted FOC, under warranty.

For some time we have not recommended option C for road use. It is incredible, but was designed for motorsport and requires for frequent maintenance.

Mike, being a retailler, I make a habit of not detrimentally comparing products which rival my own, either here or anywhere else. On the other hand, you describe DMS as being a level (at least) above Leda, I wonder how you arrive at that conclusion. DMS units are well built (as are Ohlins, Bilstein, Leda and all the suspension systems in this price bracket) and have an excellent pedigree in rallying, but the requiremnets of fast road/track are completely different.

Jamie Drummond asked Graham Cowland (owner of TSL, Group N preparer and a suspension guru in my book) to try a set on his MY00. Graham eventually took them off as the spring and damper rates were not suited to our roads. Repeated calls to Jamie Drummond, asking for different spring and damper rates to be incorporated were dismissed.

I am more inclined to trust Graham's assesment.

OmegaRed

Theo you might want to take a swing over to the i-club (http://www.i-club.com) The US Impreza owners are gaga over them. A little on the expensive side for me though, the Golds are like $2000 US shipped from AU.

Bob

IWatkins

Pete,

OK, my comments on the Leda kits were maybe a bit harsh. However, the facts stand that there are/were problems with the units that are/were fitted to road cars. On the plus side, it sounds as though everything humanly possible is being done to rectify these problems, and in my book this outweighs the shortcomings.

Anyway, it is all acedemic, Blisteins Rock !!

Cheers

Ian

Mike Tuckwood

Pete.

I'm not going to fuel your attempt to railroad Theo's thread querying <B>DMS shocks</B> to advertise your own, regardless of what problems you have had.

If you want to sing Leda's Praises, start a new thread or ask somebody else to? My opinion was sought so I gave it.


I have ran (actually) DMS on my cars for over a year now and while not a 'guru', I am capable of making a considered judgement.

<I>I have pursued spring and damper rate issues with DMS and Jamie and changes have been made which have resulted in the development of the Gold series.</I>

There are of course numerous other options when it comes to suspension.

Mike.

Theo

OOOOpppssss,....look what I have started,...that was not the idea of my posting.

But there is still another question,...The leda's are already available for the MY01 WRX ,does the DMS fit the MY01 WRX ?

Pete Croney

No problem Theo, just a bit of harmless banter between Mike and I

Mike, seriously, I'm very interested in what spring and damper rates you finished with, as a result of your development. I know what Graham wanted them to be, just wondered if you came to the same conclusion. I've spent four years on this now and its a subject that greatly interests me.

Graham Cowland and Marty Becton developed the DMS group N units (Marty was sponsored by DMS for the British Rally Championship in 1999). Ironically they arrived at the same spring and damper rates for tarmac as we build the Leda units to.

Mike Tuckwood

Sure, I'll have a look at them. You shouldn't have reached the same figures though as Leda is a twin tube damper isn't it (meaning it needs higher spring rates)?


I'm stll in touch with Marty and regularly discuss this very subject.. I told Jamie numerous times that the spring and damper rates were unsuitable for road. They fitted a set to a road car themselves.... changes (funnily enough) happened soon after.


Mike.

Willo

Strewth, who would have thought that suspension could be such a passionate area!!

I've looked quite closely at the DMS Gold's and they are an inverted damper that uses 225F 180R spring rates (on the Gold road kits at least - The guys in the US @ I-Club have debated them greatly and think they are very good, if not the best. There is some technical debate about the kit and the perceived experts consider the springs to be the great part of the kit with the dampers being good but not exceptional.

I like the look of them and the Leda's and have spoken to Pete C and Mike T about both options and think both have pros and cons.

The DMS are more expensive and are early in their product lifecycle (I know that the 50mm's have been around for ages but the golds are a very different and new product)
The Leda's are well developed and have had, at times, problems (primarily noise related) and the DMS's seem to have had similar problems. Use of the Grp N mounts as found on some of the STi's and WRX's seems to be recommended since these are much stiffer than the standard mounts

Theo, the DMS are available to fit the new model but I think that the top mount is different and you need to specify which model you are fitting them to so that you get the right mounting (this is upgradable so you can move units from old to new scoobs)

In closing either of these units are going to require you to think EXACTLY what your requirements are (ride height, bump, rebound, wheels and tyres, type of use) and this means taking time to get the set-up right for you (I think Quattro is the expert in this area, particularly with the Leda's)

Hopefully that helps and Mike and Pete can shake hands and continue producing (and importing) top bits in the UK

Now if you guys want a donor car for testing both set-ups then my RA is freely available ....

[This message has been edited by Willo (edited 12 May 2001).]

Theo

Thanks Willo, for the usefull info !

Adam M

Thats funny.

To my knowledge, barnko isnt an expert in any area and he is the first person to admit. Just thought it would be amusing if I jumped in first.

This topic is very interesting to me also , as I am unhappy with the standard car set up on english roads.

At the moment I am favouring the dms set-up, especially having had a few words with Mike, btu I am alerted to teh standard spring and damper rates.

Mike, can you give me someidea as to what has happened regarding the deveopment of the gold series as from people I have spoken to (and you know who I speak to most often ) the standard springs (progressive?) and damper settings are so far off correct that adjustability is not enough to get you on track (excuse pun).

Have they sorted this out, or was this only the case with the 50mm?

Willo

Adam,

I wasn't implying that Branko was an expert in this area but his his general advise is that this type of set-up takes a lot of thought and fine tuning to get absolutely right, be it DMS/Leda or NASA (NASA is a new product with 128 bump/rebound/height/take-off settings...)

I like the double progressive design of the DMS but I'm concerned that you won't get the same level of support since DMS aren't installing and optimising the set-up and diagnosis by e-mail is no easy thing. I'm also a little wary of having the adjusters exposed to road salt in the Winter months (rather than tucked up under a nice warm bonnet!!). Equally the Leda's have had some well documented problems (now apparently resolved) so product development is a constant process

Every time I argue the merits of these two products I want to find a compelling reason to buy either but ultimately I may end up flipping a coin and then working on getting a set-up that suits me

Adam M

I have to say that from the people I know with leda, despite previous problems the biggest factor is how good leda seem to be to their custmoers. It would appear taht nothing is too much trouble for them, and having that kiond of after sales support is a plus.

I completely understand the indecision.

i am thinking of sitting on teh fence until the bikstein adjustable kit becomes available and blagging them into selling one to a dodgy dangerous japanese import.

PS. I was joking about branko, he is certainly an expert wheer hifi is concerned, saying that he slated mine so I have lost all respect for him . I think Barnko is a nicer name for him. Incidentally if you try writing his name on a predictive messaging phone it comes up with Cranko . I shall have to ask him his thoughts on this.

Willo

There's nought more dodgy than my MY00 V-LTD WRX RA on STi suspension and 2 pot brakes - Tyre wear is not an issue since the wheels are never on the ground!! I've also considered the Bilstein's and it's good middle ground but I'm impatient....

Heads for Leda, tails for .....

Trouser

Wow! what a hot one!!!

Hmmm tricky position for us here as we were sponsored by Drummond for a time.

The rally suspension as run by us in Grp N was bespoke and delightful. These guys obviously know what they're on with. As Pete says the road stuff that we tried, obviously showed great potential but could have done with a little more development on spring rate. we had a very early set and as mike says, things have changed.

We have obviously had experience of pete's set up, particularly on his new car and could not fault it in any way.

However, even better than this.. try fitting a set of Eibachs to a good set of UK dampers and play about with geometry and you would not believe what you can achieve... Ask Rob Mac! Thats all we have on ours and I think he was quite taken with it at Donington last tuesday.

lets not forget, all suspension preference is incredibly subjective anyway.

Anyway, peace!

Paul (trainee junior guru and tea boy)

Theo

Thank you all for helping !

I ordered the Leda once again,...and it's on his way !

Theo

I've got them now,....special delivery



I fit them in two weeks, and I let you know how they are !

....I know they will be stunning !

RussP

Theo

They look too good to bolt underneath a car! Just keep 'em on the shelf and polish weekly!

Willo

Sorry I didn't get along on Sunday, i was going to offer you a spin in mine now i've got the P1 set up on it. HAve to say that having been in various cars with Leda/WR/P1 suspension on it, it's certainly my favourite, but i agree its a personal preference thing!

The P1 set up is compliant, controlled and comfy, but mainly makes my RA MUCH more controllable! As you say, the wheels didn't touch the ground much with the Jap suspension on it!

Russ

steve McCulloch

I'm now confused, bieng a total novice on suspension

I have an sti5 with antilift kit, bump steer, front and rear MRT roll bars, set up geometry and the handling is awful - it rolls all over the place! and the Leda boys.. well lets not go there....

Are we sayig towards the end of the thread that by simply putting on lowered Eichbachs you can almost get as good a result

A fellow sti5 owner put the lowered Eicbachs on his car with similar bits added to mine and had to take them off - the handling was even worse

I want an uprated kit with minimal hassle. (cost not a big issue - but I dont want to waste money!) I've heard too many horror stories about Leda over the years - i.e. numerous visits to sort the set up out - and I dont want to keep travelling that sort of distance

Should I expect Drummonds to be better?

I will have a fair amount of stereo gear in the back so I will have to take this into account - the rear becoming progressively lower as those heavy subs go in!!

So whats the best out there for minimal hassle?

when we talk about 40mm - what does this mean on the Drummond kit - the height drop?