Crappy Handling
09 October 2000, 12:09 AM
#1
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Agree with the above.
Mixing tyres is a bad idea, especially with two of such different quality.
Bump-steer mod will definitely help, see the topic in General for more info.
Stef.
Mixing tyres is a bad idea, especially with two of such different quality.
Bump-steer mod will definitely help, see the topic in General for more info.
Stef.
09 October 2000, 10:51 AM
#2
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Folks,
Any tips on getting my car to handle better.
It is fine on most occasions but when pushing hard out of corners it understeers badly so much so I keep having to come off the power or else the hedge is the next stop.
The cars is standard, with S02PP running at 32 front and 30 back, rears are old Re10's
Frustration is setting in.
Alan
PS with the pold RE10's on the front it handled better with 30 on the front and 29 rear.
Any tips on getting my car to handle better.
It is fine on most occasions but when pushing hard out of corners it understeers badly so much so I keep having to come off the power or else the hedge is the next stop.
The cars is standard, with S02PP running at 32 front and 30 back, rears are old Re10's
Frustration is setting in.
Alan
PS with the pold RE10's on the front it handled better with 30 on the front and 29 rear.
09 October 2000, 11:50 AM
#4
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know what you mean, I have had re-010'a at the front and s0-2's at the rear = understeer city. S02's all around should go some way towards helping and then a healthy dose of Prodrive settings will have the desired effect. Enjoy.
Dr jones
Dr jones
09 October 2000, 01:20 PM
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When I got my STi I needed new tyres on the front, got the SO2s and kept the old So1s on the back, AArrrrggghhhh! Nightmare, I was losing the back end all over the place, got new SO2s and major difference. The old So1s had quite a bit of tred left on them too.
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11 October 2000, 12:25 AM
#10
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Andy I agree with you and thanks for the info.
Sure I understand that understeer going into the corner will still occur but for my driving style this is not a problem. As I am usually going in heavy on the brakes, with a flick straight on the power. Which normally makes the car go straight on as the front goes light with lots of power.
Sounds then like the ALK is for me.
Alan
Sure I understand that understeer going into the corner will still occur but for my driving style this is not a problem. As I am usually going in heavy on the brakes, with a flick straight on the power. Which normally makes the car go straight on as the front goes light with lots of power.
Sounds then like the ALK is for me.
Alan
11 October 2000, 12:36 PM
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I have an Anti-lift kit on my car in conjunction with the prodrive settings.(MY98)
I don't know why it works but the ALK did stop a lot of the understeer exiting roundabouts under full power etc.It now hangs on forever.This was where it made the most difference on my car.
It also reduced lift-off oversteer.Good on fast roads but not as much fun on roundabouts.
Unfortunately it didn't seem to help much with the understeer just as you turn in to the corner especially if you turn in while still on the power.
The ALK seems to work well on UK cars but some people with imports running modded suspension could not get it to work.
When the car was standard I found it really frustrating to drive fast especially as I'd always had front wheel drive cars before which turned in much better than the scoob.
I have also adapted my driving style.I find the best approach is to turn in agressively with as little power as possible (often still on the brakes) to reduce understeer then get hard on the power which helps to stop understeer on the exit.
The above mods plus the different driving style means I rarely pick up understeer now and enjoy the car much more.
Andy
PS JamieR Good question,I thought exactly the same thing.
I think the answer is that it doesn't straighten up both wheels just the one on the outside of the turn. This means the car now has a lot of toe-out which causes the understeer as the front wheels are effectivly fighting each other thereby reducing overall grip.
PPS the above is just MHO and could be b****x
[This message has been edited by AndyMc (edited 11 October 2000).]
I don't know why it works but the ALK did stop a lot of the understeer exiting roundabouts under full power etc.It now hangs on forever.This was where it made the most difference on my car.
It also reduced lift-off oversteer.Good on fast roads but not as much fun on roundabouts.
Unfortunately it didn't seem to help much with the understeer just as you turn in to the corner especially if you turn in while still on the power.
The ALK seems to work well on UK cars but some people with imports running modded suspension could not get it to work.
When the car was standard I found it really frustrating to drive fast especially as I'd always had front wheel drive cars before which turned in much better than the scoob.
I have also adapted my driving style.I find the best approach is to turn in agressively with as little power as possible (often still on the brakes) to reduce understeer then get hard on the power which helps to stop understeer on the exit.
The above mods plus the different driving style means I rarely pick up understeer now and enjoy the car much more.
Andy
PS JamieR Good question,I thought exactly the same thing.
I think the answer is that it doesn't straighten up both wheels just the one on the outside of the turn. This means the car now has a lot of toe-out which causes the understeer as the front wheels are effectivly fighting each other thereby reducing overall grip.
PPS the above is just MHO and could be b****x
[This message has been edited by AndyMc (edited 11 October 2000).]
11 October 2000, 01:42 PM
#12
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The ALK changes the castor on the front wheels which means that it is less prone to lifting under acceleration. It is this lift on standard cars that leads to less weight on the front wheels which consequently struggle for grip. If cornering you thus get understeer. See
11 October 2000, 04:23 PM
#13
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Andy and Dave,
It's understeer when on the power that I'm suffering from - but Andy suggests the kit doesn't work for all cars - I have a MY00 WRX with ps bump steer mod. Whadya reckon?
It's understeer when on the power that I'm suffering from - but Andy suggests the kit doesn't work for all cars - I have a MY00 WRX with ps bump steer mod. Whadya reckon?
12 October 2000, 12:04 AM
#14
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Hi Triggaaar,
I have an MY96 Uk car. Koni adjustable dampers with Eibach springs so it's about 30mm lower than standard. I have the ALK with Powerflex bushes as well on the front wishbone. Plus Powerflex bushes on both anti-roll bars with the later (thicker( AR bar on the rear. I have also just had the Powerstation bump steer mod done. (Last weekend). Previously I had Prodrive settings plus the rest of the stuff.
Power-on understeer exiting corners - hardly exists now what ever geometry settings I had. The ALK was responsible here. I had it fitted (together with Powerflex bushes on the other wishbone joint) with NO other changes - not even a geometry check. Went out for a spin and whereas before the front would lift under power - now it didn't. Where before it would understeer when powering out of a bend - not it didn't (all subject to the relevant laws of physics though.....).
If Andy is seeing understeer going into corners I suggest he's seeing some geometry issue - probably a bump-steer issue.
I suggest that someone like Simon could give a better answer here....
Dave
I have an MY96 Uk car. Koni adjustable dampers with Eibach springs so it's about 30mm lower than standard. I have the ALK with Powerflex bushes as well on the front wishbone. Plus Powerflex bushes on both anti-roll bars with the later (thicker( AR bar on the rear. I have also just had the Powerstation bump steer mod done. (Last weekend). Previously I had Prodrive settings plus the rest of the stuff.
Power-on understeer exiting corners - hardly exists now what ever geometry settings I had. The ALK was responsible here. I had it fitted (together with Powerflex bushes on the other wishbone joint) with NO other changes - not even a geometry check. Went out for a spin and whereas before the front would lift under power - now it didn't. Where before it would understeer when powering out of a bend - not it didn't (all subject to the relevant laws of physics though.....).
If Andy is seeing understeer going into corners I suggest he's seeing some geometry issue - probably a bump-steer issue.
I suggest that someone like Simon could give a better answer here....
Dave
12 October 2000, 10:44 PM
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How fast are you guys cornering? I have not once encountered understeer on dry roads.
Wet, well I managed that and scared the crap out of myself as both ends bit at different times and angles.
Am I driving like a wuss? I seem to be going pretty quick IMO. Are you lot driving at 10/10ths?.
P.
Wet, well I managed that and scared the crap out of myself as both ends bit at different times and angles.
Am I driving like a wuss? I seem to be going pretty quick IMO. Are you lot driving at 10/10ths?.
P.
13 October 2000, 11:27 AM
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Sith - you're a wuss...!!
Seriously, you don't have to put too much power on out of a bend to get the power-on understeer. Find a nice wide open corner to practise on and see what I mean.
Or maybe you have the ALK fitted and don't know it...?
Dave
13 October 2000, 09:32 PM
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Dave,
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
You may have something there. I have not noticed a big lift in the front end on power on like others have mentioned. Saturday tomorrow - Playtime
I have a favourite roundabout. Hope it's dry tomorrow!
I will report back if I attain understeer.
P.
14 October 2000, 08:38 PM
#18
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All,
Well, I tried. Standing start around sweeping corner. Full throttle in first into second and into third. At approx 65mph I could feel it starting to scrabble slightly for grip. No massive understeer like I have been reading about. And I have the original crappy (IMO) Michelin Pilots.
Is doing this from a standing start a fair comparison? It was left from a set of traffic lights and I started to boot it on the straight before the corner.
Hopefully I will get another chance to test again on Sunday. And when the car goes for it's service I will ask to have it checked for the ALK.
Edit due to stupid Q answered earlier!
P.
[This message has been edited by Sith (edited 14 October 2000).]
Well, I tried. Standing start around sweeping corner. Full throttle in first into second and into third. At approx 65mph I could feel it starting to scrabble slightly for grip. No massive understeer like I have been reading about. And I have the original crappy (IMO) Michelin Pilots.
Is doing this from a standing start a fair comparison? It was left from a set of traffic lights and I started to boot it on the straight before the corner.
Hopefully I will get another chance to test again on Sunday. And when the car goes for it's service I will ask to have it checked for the ALK.
Edit due to stupid Q answered earlier!
P.
[This message has been edited by Sith (edited 14 October 2000).]
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