dowser

I need some advice - my current setup is (my00 wagon);

* 22mm adjustable rear bar on middle holes
* HD Rear mounts
* Steel links front and rear
* ALK
* Coilover suspension (KW v3)
* Quaife front diff
* -2 degrees neg. camber all round, 1 degree toe in at front/side (parallel rear).

Car goes well on track, but I still have an issue getting power down out of corners when my entry speed is a little too fast. Front end drifts under power - the rear does as well but it's defintely front biased. The front tyres also overcook very quickly if I'm not careful. What *seems* to be happening is that the Quaife is lighting up both front tyres, and the rear seems slow to follow suit.

What will happen if I uprate the front ARB? Or should I just learn to drive?

My current thinking is that the front end has too much stress on it - the set up works very well on the road and what ever I do to improve the track response I must be able to reverse before driving home. I was hoping a front ARB with rear on middle for track, and hardest for road.

While I know that too fast an entry will always overload the front, I really want a way to have throttle effect the back of the car more on exits....but still maintain a sharp turn in.

I'm also about to change all remaining rubber bushing to upgraded Powerflex items - has anyone else done similar, and what did they notice?

And what about centre diffs? What options are available and how will it effect front/rear balance?

Thanks
Richard

Pavlo

Learn to drive.

You're pushing too deep into the corner, I'm guessing but you probably are late on the brakes, fast into the corner, but slow right down while the front is washing out, then you're left having to make up a load more speed than you feel you should

At the moment, I think you're pust pushing the front tyres too hard, and once they are starting to go in the corner, you have to do a lot to get it back. If you slow up more coming in, you'll have a lot more scope to control the car under power on the way out.

Brake a little sooner, or harder (if posible), and just reduce entry speed a tad, once you're just before mid corner, you should be in control, not coasting, not full power.

By sacrificing what appears to be some entry speed, I'm sure you can gain more time on the rest of the corner.

Uprated centre diff is another possible mod, but until you are hard on the power, it's not going to make much odds.

Paul

dowser

Paul - yep, I know

If entry speed is good, my exits are perfect. However, I want to improve things on those occassions when entry is too fast (it happens to everyone...but perhaps more to me ) - without losing the current abilities when entry is OK.

I want more gas to step out the rear, rather than washing out the front even more. I guess the Quaife front works against me in this situation (if one front tyre is slipping, so is the other).

Hhmm - probably just try the front bar to see. Due to the rear bar there is a hell of a lot of roll at the front on entry anyhow.

Richard

mutant_matt

You don't mention whether or not you've had the Bump Steer Mod done? 2 degress of camber huh - do you find your tyres wearing out quite quickly? Powerstation usually recommend 1 degree for "Fast Road" and 1.5 for "Track" with 1.5 having a noticably higher wear rate than the 1 degree.

Other than adding the BSM, I would say that you probably can't make much improvement other than changing your driving style, or making the car more of a compromise in the wet and on bumpier roads!

No mods will really save you from going in to a corner too fast!

Matt

dowser

I've got the bump steer as well, forgot

I guess what I'm after is to change the response to incorrect inputs from me. I can lift at the point the front is running wide, which unsettles the rear nicely so that when I get back on gas all is as I want. However, I've lost too much ground to make this viable (it's a lot slower than just holding steady throttle and waiting it out). Maybe I need a 'rear-wheel-drive-only' button?!

Richard

Edited to add: negative camber doesn't give me any problems on inside edge, but I run a very soft tyre which only lasts me 12k km's per set on the road anyway.

[Edited by dowser - 12/15/2002 2:37:27 PM]

Pavlo

If you're pushing hard into a corner, but want to rescue it with the throttle, more RWD bias will help, but only if you have enough power to loosen up the rear a little.

Uprated centre diff might do the trick. The easiest way to find out is see if can do a test in an STI, or ride as passenger.

I still think slowing up a little on entry will wok out better. If you know you've overcooked the corner, keep slowing in a straight line further into the bend, then hard on the wheel and throttle to get back up to speed.

The thing is, you can get the problems you describe can happen in a rwd car if you push hard enough into the bends

Paul

Andy.F

Richard

Have you tried the rear ARB on the stiffest setting to load up the rear more, also maybe try -2.5 > -3 degrees neg camber on the front if your problem is in the slower corners ??
Something to beware of, if the car is running much lower that stock, the front can go on to the bumpstops prematurely especially braking into slow turns, this has the effect of overloading the ouside front resulting in understeer.
Your KW's may be shorter ? I had my Leda's manufactured with a 2" shorter body to try and ovecome this problem.

IMHO, the only 'proper' solution is using a type R/RA rear bias, adjustable centre diff, this will bring back the RWD style throttle control without too much (if any) traction compromise.
You could always go for the cusco 'tarmac' diff 33/67% split IIRC Yummy.....

Andy

dowser

Thanks All,

I'll check the bumpstops Andy, but I would exopect the results to be far more aggressive than it is, and to also occur when I get it right...

I'd like the option of an RA adjustable centre diff - but they're bloody expensive even 2nd hand....especially given I'll have to uprate the gearsets in that too.

Trying to stiffen up the front ARB is an attempt to keep the tyre in better contact with the track.

I've actually found that this trait is worse with more power - but then, when I get it right it's also much better with more power...

Richard

Andy.F

Agree that the bumpstops would be doing their thing every time, they are however quite long and progressive, about 4" long, you can easily squash the first inch by hand !

I think they are designed to suppliment the original springs rather than just be bump stops, when you fit higher rated springs and dampers then their use becomes more questionable, I chopped mine down to 2" so they are well out of the way

Cusco tarmac centre diff - group buy for the track day mob ??

Forester_GP

Richard, i feel for you, as i have almost the same mods (but different car) with the exception of KW's and the quaife that i'm fitting shortly. I'm thinking that the quaife will make this behaviour,as you describe it, more pronounced. I always get the sence, in the dry, that my rear diff comes to play to late for my liking whereas in the wet is just right. DCCD has come to mind many times but cost is somewhat steepish! Nevertheless, i'm on the lookout for an uprated center diff(not the 20Kg)and i'll support a group buy.

George

dowser

How much is the Cusco.....?

The Quaife front drift is a great mod - but only on exits where the entry was right...

Richard

PS: The other thing I haven't considered - way, way back I did a drift training day...lots of judicious handbrake useage...clutch dipped, but there would still have been a fairly large speed difference between front and rear axles......could it be faffed? Don't think so...in the wet, on road, slow in fast out gives big rear slide action to collect.

Forester_GP

Richard, not only we think the same but we also drive the same way. I'm sure glad we live in different countries, otherwise our meet on the same road would be rather ....devastating. I also do a bit of off-road and its even worst there unless, very slow in and then WOT. I've talked with Mark A. today for the very same subject, and he told me that an 11Kg part is propably available. Anyway, i let you know of my findings soon. Any comments are welcomed!

George

dowser

Got some interesting views on mrt forum - leads me to wonder whether perhaps the front diff is contributing to tyre heat build-up?

I assume, as the Quaife is mechanical, that it resists the difference of slower speed between wheels on the same axle as much as it does higher speed. This means that on turn in it's generating more heat in the tyres trying to keep them both rotating at the same speed?

I got a new front bar anyway to try, and am about to order harder bushes for the componentry that hasn't been done yet.

Richard

Andy.F

Hmmm, On track my inside front tyre gets hotter than the outside