Andrew Longworth

Ahh okay - I thought last time I saw it you had the Eibach's on. Certainly wasnt the D&W's.

We are getting there.
It seems that the boy has made some progress. I should know more begining of next week. Thats no problem though as I am stuck up in Amsterdam till the 15th August. If All goes to plan I will get the car on the 16th.

[Edited by Andrew Longworth - 8/7/2002 7:20:57 PM]

PeterPerfect

Wurzel, I'm not really happy with mine either.
Fitted to a MY99 (with ALK and bumpsteer mod) 6 months ago.
They can feel very floaty/imprecise over some roads.


[Edited by PeterPerfect - 8/7/2002 7:30:21 PM]

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to be saying this as you lot seem to orgasm over eibachs, but I had them fitted on my MY00 and thought they were absolute C***! worse than the standard springs that came with the car, so I removed them and had K&W adjustable suspension fitted last week and what a difference it has made, the car in conjunction with the work Powerstation did seems so much tighter and better.

Why do I think what I think?? they knocked, banged rattled and where to soft, the springs when we removed them had flat spots on them where they were banging to gether under compression.

So maybe one of you experts out there can enlighten me asto why I had such problems with these Gods of springs.

Claudius

Look at me replies in here, I have been saying what you just said for some time now!

Dampers and springs need to be set up for each other, you cant just change springs. It's obvious when you have SOME idea of how suspension works, really.

Good to hear you got an adjustable suspension kit too bad the monotubes are so expensive...

Mo

Did you check the Eibach fitment guide, it sounds like you got a set for a Nova

Couldn't fault them fitted to STiV type R struts on a MY94 wagon.

Only reason I changed to coilovers was to cope with the slicks on track, the Eibachs just couldn't corner flat enough with slicks.

mutant_matt

Wurzel,

Dunno m8 - sounds to me like something was wrong. Had Eibachs and not a single bang or rattle from them and they improved the handling no end from standard (on an MY00). Several Scoob owners went in the car and commented on how well it cornered too (mostly subjective I know).

They were supplied and fitted by Powerstation.

Claudius, everything is a compromise. The Eibachs are designed to work well with the OE dampers which is why they offer a minimal ride height drop. In my experience they work better than the OE springs which makes them a worthwhile cheap upgrade for people not wanting to spend more money on some decent adustable kit.

Matt

Chris L

Agree with Matt - having followed him in his old car - you can see the difference and the improved handling that it gives. As a cheap way to improve things they are great. Having also been in an MY00 fitted with full Leda B, it is another world. But this comes at a considerable cost.

The reason they generally work so well is that they are matched to the OEM setup (as Matt has said). I've got them on my MY01 and it has made the ride harder (but then I'm also riding on 18" wheels) - its my choice and I don't mind the firmer ride as it gives much more control and considerably less body roll which has reduced understeer. Incidently I've never had them hit the bump stops or had problems with crashing. Mine were fitted by Powerstation, who also did the geometry settings. It does sound like you had a 'bad set' or they have been badly fitted.

Chris

ozzy

I must agree too with Matt and Chris, Eibachs have been one of the best mods I've made to my car. Are they completely orgasmic? well no, not when you compare them to a proper kit like Leda. The only cost me £200, so for the money they're great.

Mine have never banged, rattled or knocked so I can only assume they were a dodgy set or weren't fitted correctly (or your OEM dampers were shot ).

I have very little understanding of how suspension works, but what I do know is how the car feels under my @rse and that's where it counts for me

Stefan

Andrew Longworth

Steve - Which did you have on last time I saw you in the car?

MATTeL

Again agreeing with Matt and Chris.

I have Eibachs fitted to an MY01 with OEM dampers.

Dropped the height, stiffened the ride up, made the car far more controlled through corners, the amount the body toll was reduced amazed me.

Supplied and fitted by TSL how the geometery set-up as well.

A great improvement to the car.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Andy I had standard suspension on then but now it has been lowered 40mm at the front and 35mm at the back.

Have you gat your car yet??? I got the Fahrzeugbrief for mine from the bank the other day.

Claudius

Not everybody has a feel for these things...

mutant_matt

Peter,

Did you not find the OE spings even more "floaty" than the Eibachs. The floaty feeling (when psuhing on and in particular, when changing direction twice) I got from the OE springs was eliminated when I put the Eibachs on....odd!!

Matt

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Andy I am not sure if my car would fit in your Tiefgarage anymore now that it is 2cm lower.

Andrew Longworth

It would be interesting to try it some time to find out... I might consider having mine lowered if it still fits in the place.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Maybe I will try it aslong as you agree to buy me a new front bumper if I manage to damage my one

Andrew Longworth

Na... there is no need to get that far. Use Stu or Nick to thier full potential... have them stood there going "Yeah" or "No" :-)

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Ok No probs

Andrew Longworth

And the buying saga continues. I am in the office tomorrow so I will come and tell all. Safe to say I have started to look for another Impreza.

Fulham71

I have Eibachs fitted & they knock like hell when going over speed bumps & the like !
God knows how you cure this !

Pete Croney

If you have 80mm of suspension travel and wish to lower the car by 30mm, the springs must be uprated by at least 60% to stop them bottoming out with the reduced travel. Although the bump loading will be the same, the rebound damping will be inedequate to control the spring.

This has two effects... first the suspension can "jack up" when going over a crest, which will give a floaty feeling and secondly if a spring rate is too high for a damper, the damper will eventually overheat from trying to control the spring. If the damper does overheat, this would lead to a big reduction in damping and would also give a floaty feeling.

Fulham71

Sorry Pete are you saying that Standard dampers & Eibach springs is not a good combination then?

Pete Croney

Fulham, exactly that.

Think about what each component is doing and how they interact. If the rebound valving is designed for a spring rate of 200lb/in, what will happen if the spring is actually 300lb/in?

TelBoy

Pete,

I'd be the first to admit that my Eibachs aren't the panacea some people make them out to be, in the sense that the "floaty" moments are still there.
But it does seem that they're fewer in number, and feel more "controlled" in a difficult to explain sort of way. And the cornering poise seems to be a lot better.

But i'd hope Powerstation and others wouldn't send out all the Scoobs they have with OE dampers and Eibachs if there were inherrent problems, or are we all too willing to believe it's better when it's not really? And what sort of limits wuold we have to push to experience damper overheating - a flat out track session or a cross-country blast?
And what would you recommend we change, assuming we can't afford Leda? Keep the Eibachs and change the dampers, or the other way round? Thanks,

Terry

Claudius

Then it will rip the damn valves out and cause the damper to fail. And make the car jumpy.

Claudius

You do get different handling characteristics, which you feel, but not better ones.

Maybe hope isnt good enough?

It seems that way...

Getting the damper to work, ie. move (bumpy road) is enough to put lots of stress on it. The oil will heat more, the suspension become really wobbly. Someone on here boiled his Ledas on the Ring, so imagine your dual tubes under sustained load...

I didnt read Pete recommend Leda. Do you recommend Leda suspension, Pete??

Keep the suspension as it is from the factory until you can afford a complete monotube suspension setup with the correct springs for your application.

robbo_64

Gents,
There have been a lot of threads regarding this over the years.
Another well-known Scoob tuning shop reckons that the Eibachs are a better match for the damper rates and this is why benefits are felt.
I think everyone agrees that they will never match a £1200-1500 quid fully adjustable set-up.
(2nd hand !!!) Eibachs fitted (by myself) to my MY98 UK along with a full alignment seem !?!? to have improved the car dramatically IMHO.
None of this 'floaty' stuff you are talking about. Know someone who fitted his Eibachs himself and didn't re-line up the spring seats correctly. This resulted in them fouling the inner wheelarches and making all these banging noises you describe. Who fitted 'em for you?
If I can be so bold, it seems that the majority opinion of Scoob owners with Eibachs is that the car 'feels' better. Can you really argue with that, or do we have to get Tommi Makkinen to lap a circuit with a standard car and time it, then put some Eibachs on and go through the same loop to see if they are worse?
Not all of us can justify the sort of money you are talking about for Leda etc. I bought a Scoob for it's performance per pound, I wouldn't spend 15% of it's value on suspension alone as the car does not spend enough time on the track (or travelling at 100mph plus on the road) to justify it.
Pete, is fully adjustable suspension really necessary for the road or is it for Track nuts who also use their cars on the road??

Neil (Flame suit on)

It would appear that the people who feel justified in spending £1500 are the ones who are right here and no-one else has the knowledge/ability to judge how their car 'feels'. I am now going to contact Eibach, Pi and the likes and inform them that they have been taking the pi$$ out of the tens of thousands of Scoob/Evo/any other performance car you care to mention and I am going to sue them because they have 'spoilt' my car.

Is it not possible that Subaru didn't have it exactly right the first time, suspension from one country to another and model year to another have differed and maybe the Eibachs are a 'better' compromise?? Stranger things have happened.
Rant over.

[Edited to reply to the above thread]

[Edited by robbo_64 - 8/19/2002 3:23:14 PM]

Pete Croney

Telboy to answer your question, I think they can offer an improvement on circuit, if the sessions are kept short, as the dampers are not doing a great deal on a flat track and the CoG is lower.

A country lane blast is where the dampers get seriously punished and its here you will most notice the handling going off. I drove a new shape WRX with lowering springs and the handling after 10 miles of country lanes (not pushing too hard) was not a patch on the handling at the start of the journey. The car was lurching over and bottoming out as though the dampers had given up completely.

Warning, don't ever try to touch the damper to see how hot it is. Even with a matched set up, it will get pretty hot.

As for suitability, I won't be drawn on that one. There are various makes and various rates, with everyone claiming that theirs are the best compromise. Its up to you who you believe will give a product suitable for your intended use.

Then again, you may only be interested in the cosmetic appearance of the car, as I think many lowering spring users are.

Manufacturers rarely get damper to spring suitability wrong, as they spend a LOT of money on such things. Why we change them is because our priorities are different to the manufacturers'. For example, the standard cars MUST be able to accept snow chains and this is why the new shape car looks so jacked up. How many people have this option on their list?

I have always recommeded Leda, but then I've spent four years refining it, so feel qualified to do so. That's not the point though, as I don't think anyone assumes that they can achieve coilover type handling with a set of lowering springs.

Pete Croney

Robbo

They are lowering springs and don't claim to be anything else. They do what it says on the box.

[Edited by Pete Croney - 8/19/2002 4:59:20 PM]

robbo_64

Pete,
I bow to your superior knowledge you have regarding Tuning stuff for the Scoob, but surely they are more than just 'lowering springs'.
Are they not a progressive rate spring, ie. not just a similar but higher rated spring with a coil chopped off !!
Were there not differences to spring and damper rates 93-96, then 97-98 and then 99-00? Were these different compromises?
My point still stands, are thousands of satisfied buyers all wrong??
Neil.