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Afternoon,as pointed out above,do some evening trackdays through the summer and 4 or 5 through the rest.Looking to change ARBs(mine are 19F/20R),rear chassis mountings,both arb link assemblies and maybe alk.Want to go with 22F and 24R, but doing homework with at sites,have found im best to ask from people who have gone down this tryed and tested route,and maybe tell me what to buy for max benefit,rather than needless extras.The car is pretty much standered,leda coilovers,4pot front/1pot rear,front and rear strut braces.Choices seem to be Whiteline,Eibach,RCM or Superpro,with some selling handling deals.Not mentioning company names,this is purely which is the best deal for my requirements.
Company 1:.Whiteline ARBs 22f/22r(adjustable) with bushes, arb link and mounting accessories(£453)No ALK.or rear chassis mounting,
Company 2 Whiteline ARBs 22f/24r(adjustable) with ALK/bushes/wheel aligment and fitting(£715)no arb link/mounting accessories,no rear chassis mounting
Company 3 Superpro ARBs 22f/24r(adjustable) with arb bushes/rear chassis mounting(£470)No ALK/arb link mounting accessories.
Company 4 Eibach ARBs 23f/24r(not adjustable)with arb bushes(£355)No ALK/arb link mounting accessories/rear chassis mounting
Company 5 RCM ARBs 22f/24r(front not adj/rear adj)with arb bushes(£444)No ALK/arb link mounting accessories/rear chassis mounting.
Or just buy what I need seperately,other companies have deals.Would buy ARBs secondhand,but dont come up often.Have got two track evenings left,so wont be doing anything until September,mate has a hoist and bearing press,is it something we can do ourselves.Thanks
Evening. Springs -9"x2.5"x250lbs(dont know if that tells you the spring rate,its whats on a reciept when I bought a pair
Tyres- 225/45/17 Yoko AD08r(5mm spacer on front/10mm on the back
MOT, but know not taxed and insured since March,as was selling it then.So only drive down 300yard driveway 2 or 3 times a month to keeping everything in check,95% track now
Front Caster n/s 2.20 o/s 2.26
Front camber n/s 1.10 o/s1.01
Front Toe out 0.10
Rear Camber n/s 2.28 o/s 0.21
Rear Toe n/s 0.0 o/s 0.0
Aligment was done at an Independent Lotus garage,who raced elises/exiges.Has worked for me and style of driving.
Last edited by imacleverdick; 30 July 2020 at 08:12 PM.
Reason: wrong tyre size
I'd start with:
300lb/in front springs
22mm adjustable rear bar.
Haven't your coilovers got adjustable camber plates front and rear?
neg 2deg 30 mins front
neg 2 deg rear (I take that o/s rear 0.21 is a typing error?)
And way more caster positive 5-6deg or as much as you can get by re-orientating the camber plates.
What are your wheel centre to arch measurements?
Why have you increased the rear track more than the front?
Afternoon,thanks for replying:
The springs at the front are probably original,no paperwork to say theyve been changed(So standered,dont know wieght).I changed the rear.
So buy an adjustable 22mm arb(remeasured 20.5mm with paint/rust dust wired off)is it worth changing for maybe 2mm, would include changing the the link mounting accessories i assume
See pic showing front top mount under bonnet,looks like some form of clockwise/anti in centre,adjuster **** on legs for softening/harder damper.
See pic for printout, typo on printout,what is neg 2deg 30 mins front?
Would the legs need to be dropped to access the camber plates,if there not adjustable at the top(under the bonnet0
Wheel/hub centre to arch;F 31mm R 36.8mm The front wheel as suspension set at the moment doesnt rub on the wheel arch,even under heavy braking and the tyres wear evenly
The rear track is wider because,if I go more than 5mm on the front the tyres rubbed occasionally on turning after heavy braking,as wieght on the front(archs have been rolled).Back tyres are flush with wings.
A 22mm, 3way, adjustable rear bar will be 20% or 45% or 75% stiffer than a stock bar.
Track-wise: negative 2degrees 30minutes is what your front camber should be. As opposed to negative 1 deg 10mins and negative 1 deg 1 min that you have at the moment.
Your rear camber should be negative 2 deg. As opposed to negative 28 mins and negative 21mins you have now.
Your front top mounts (and I assume the rears) are not adjustable. You'll need them to be adjustable to reach the above specs. I'd expect you to reach neg 1 deg 30mins front and neg 1 deg 15mins at the rear with stock top mounts.
Change the front springs to ensure 300lb/in, they're cheap.
Get the rear spacers off as long as you've got 5mm clearance to the strut/coils?
Ride heights is that 310mm, 368mm rear?
Your way too low at the front (which will induce more roll), raise to 330-335mm front and drop the rear to 340- 345mm
Morning,homework for today
Will get 22mm rear arb bar(would you recommend the whiteline,as it seems to be the go to one)or any of the others Ive mentioned.Does that inclured buying the link accessories.And is the front 19mm arb being left unchanged,just bush strenghtened?
So do I buy find out if Leda sell adjustable mounts/camber plates or would adjustable camber bolts do the job(whiteline 14mm KCA414).The top is adjustable for something,I have a subaru svx with AVO coilovers with the same adjuster,but is for damping,thought the Ledas were on the stut leg with the adjuster ****!
Did further paperwork investigation,and found Id changed the front springs,3 years ago,now 275lbs,Wont be changing for the sake of 12.5kgs a side(£145 can go towards tyres/brakes/fliuds).have owned car 7 years.
When checking round coilovers,saw rubbings on struts/springs,remembered as 225 tyres on car,they flex/expand under heat on trackdays and rub
Will adjust ride height to recommendations.Think I should chuck the car on the trailer and bring it up to you to sort out.
Don't use an alk - you'll lose effective front spring rate. Use group n or Hardrace rubber bushings in the control arm.
22mm Superpro rear bar - better bent, better finish.
I'd stick with the oem front bar for now. The bigger rear bar has a diagonal, as well as a lateral effect.
Non-anodised Whiteline rear drop links are a good price. Their bushings are cone-shaped which helps. Whiteline w23480
You could get front and rear adjustable camber plates, depends on your budget. Or, offset, rubber, front mounts (Whiteline kca335 or Pedders) or, no offset, group n.
You could use additional adjustable camber bolts instead of camber plates, but, they're a bit puny and you can't achieve the oem torque specs, as they are a thinner bolt, than oem. I wouldn't want to be bouncing over track kerbs on them.
The fronts already have an oem adjustable camber bolt, use that to get as much negative camber as you can - don't know if Leda coilovers have slotted lower mounting holes? If so, then there's more camber available there.
The rear camber will increase as you lower the rear ride height - again, may have slotted mounting holes, on the two lower bolts?
Useful:
Urethane steering rack bushes
Super pro TRC0002 roll centre kit
You've adversely affected the handling, by increasing the rear track, more than the front, what et and size are your wheels?
Afternoon
Are the control arm bushes these type from group n(ST2020055000/010 or KCA375/375m
The links would include W23479,any other bushes other than what you have pointed out
Will be taking the wheels off in the next couple of days as looking at brakes,wil be able to take a proper look at struts and give Leda a call..Seen on you tube some drill/lengthen their top mount holes to give more camber adjustment,as his were like mine.
Which steering rack bushes-KSR202(30mm) or KSR200(25mm)
The wheel sizes are 7Jx17H2
Quick question off suspension,as I said doing brakes.Im looking to swap a KAD 6pot kit off he Svx, on to the V3(it has 4pot calipers).If not straight forward,will the304mm/28mm ap two disc fit under the V3s 4pot caliper with out adjustment,,Thanks for the advice,have you gone trough the same route or you do this for a job.Cheers
You'll have to measure the steering rack diameter 25/30mm
I'd much prefer 225/45 on 7.5" wheel
I wouldn't slot the front top mount holes in the bodywork (your car looks too nice to hack up). Ideally, front camber plates £190 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KCA251S-W....c100667.m2042
AS Performance ( stockcar on here) would be worth contacting about these or something similar.
Or, £150 for front offset rubber, £130 for front group N rubber. Or, just set it up the best you can with your existing top mounts and have some fun. As you've got coilovers, seems a shame not to corner balance it, if it's for track use.
Yes, those group n numbers are correct, for the rear bush of the front control arm, do the front bush in group n as well.
I prefer group n or Hardrace rubber in a pivot position and urethane in compression. With maybe one exception:
The rear hub has a rubber pivot bush, where it connects to the rear of the rear trailing arm - unless you have got access to the special tool to fit a group n rubber bush, in this position, then I can understand using a TWO PIECE urethane bush in this position instead.
Check the bush orientation when fitting rubber bushes eg front bush of the rear trailing arm.
The gaps in the rubber bushing, need to be in-line with the length of the trailing arm, +/-5 degrees.
Evening
I have Ali arms,and those drop links(but have seen better days)will change
The tyres are 225/45/17
Will put the top mounts you recommend on the full list.but as Im on a budget,they will have to come in due course.The handling i have or these car are just so good in standered form,it hasnt let me down especially when I look back at footage of me chasing/catching a Mclaren/gtr and M cars through the twisty bits on track,rain or shine.I just want to tighten the car up,its only 280hp,,maybe i have to consider more aero to stay quick through the corners!
The front control arm bush is Hardrace SKU0003032I assume
Engine mounts will have to wait.
Going to drop the ride hieght on the rear by 26mm,as i dont think it will effct the tyres/aligment( will need new rears after next trackday.But you recommend not lifting the front by 23mm until Ive done the upgrades. Thanks
If you need to change all tyres, then 215/40 or 215/45 are a better fit on your 7" wheels (more sidewall control) - should also allow you to get rid of the rear spacers
That is the front control arm bush number.
If you can drive, quickly, it in its current state of alignment and ride heights, I wouldn't lower the rear ride heights, yet. Do the rears together with the front heights and a new alignment/corner balance
While re-bushing the front control arms, you could rotate the pivot pins, that go through the rear bush. Remove the 2 bolts that hold the pin to the arm (use penetrating oil first, you don't want to damage the aluminium threads in the arm) then rotate the pin 180 degrees, to gain more caster.
Evening,right this is my in theory list of what you have recommended,and my understanding.Some of what is listed are the equiverlant,because the ICP website has gone down
22mm Anti roll bar-Superpro/RC0041RZ-22. Just as well not Whiteline as there is a waiting time till mid Decemember.
Rear C shaped drop links: Whiteline/W23480
Rear chassis mount:ICP12918
Rear arb link bush:Powerflex/PFR69/119
Rear beam mount:Powerflex/PFR60/118(already fitted on car 2yrs ago)
Front Arb bushowerflex/PFR69/303/19(already fitted to car 2yrs ago)
Front drop links:ICP2170) or KLC 139(not)
Steering bush kit:Hardrace/SkU0003036 or Superpro(25mm/30mm)
front ARB bar end link;Powerflex/PFR69-107
Front control arm/front bush:Hardrace equivilant/SKU0003032
Front control arm/rear bush:Group N/st202005/000
Roll centre kit:Superpro/TRC0002
Camber plates and engine mounts will have to wait
Raise front 23mm and lower rear 25mm of car after ailgnment
Front camber:negative 2 degrees/30mins
Rear camber:negative 2 degrees/30mins.
hows that lot sound.Havent priced it yet,run out time.Thanks so far.
Evening,right this is my in theory list of what you have recommended,and my understanding.Some of what is listed are the equiverlant,because the ICP website has gone down
22mm Anti roll bar-Superpro/RC0041RZ-22. Just as well not Whiteline as there is a waiting time till mid Decemember.
Rear C shaped drop links: Whiteline/W23480 - CHECK WHAT TYPE OF REAR DROP LINKS YOU HAVE, YOU MAY HAVE THE SAME TYPE AS YOUR FRONTS.
Rear chassis mount:ICP12918 - SELECT THE 22MM BUSH OPTION, THE BUSH WILL BE A DIFFERENT DESIGN TO THOSE THAT COME WITH THE BAR.
Rear arb link bush:Powerflex/PFR69/119 - NOT REQUIRED they are part of W23480
Rear beam mount:Powerflex/PFR60/118(already fitted on car 2yrs ago)
Front Arb bushowerflex/PFR69/303/19(already fitted to car 2yrs ago)
Front drop links:ICP2170) or KLC 139(not) - GET THE ICP DROP LINKS they'll be fine with the 19mm front bar
Steering bush kit:Hardrace/SkU0003036 or Superpro(25mm/30mm)
front ARB bar end link;Powerflex/PFR69-107 - NOT REQUIRED you're using the icp2170
Front control arm/front bush:Hardrace equivilant/SKU0003032
Front control arm/rear bush:Group N/st202005/000
Roll centre kit:Superpro/TRC0002 - UNLESS YOUR STOCK FRONT BALL JOINTS AND TIE RODS ARE FAILING, I'D RATHER HAVE FRONT CAMBER PLATES INSTEAD - for the additional negative camber and positive caster.
Camber plates and engine mounts will have to wait
Raise front 23mm and lower rear 25mm of car after ailgnment - SET RIDE HEIGHTS BEFORE ALIGNMENT
Front camber:negative 2 degrees/30mins - YOU WON'T GET THAT MUCH CAMBER WITHOUT CAMBER PLATES, (unless the Leda's have slotted mounting holes?) - YOU SHOULD GET NEGATIVE 1 DEGREE 20-30MINS MAX, PER SIDE, WITH THE STOCK CAMBER BOLT
Rear camber:negative 2 degrees/30mins - SHOULD BE NEGATIVE 2 DEGREES, BUT AGAIN, YOU WON'T GET THAT WITHOUT CAMBER PLATES (unless the Leda's have slotted mounting holes?) - THE REAR CAMBER ISN'T LISTED AS ADJUSTABLE, BUT YOU CAN EQUALISE THE REAR CAMBER USING THE PLAY IN THE REAR STRUT LOWER BOLT HOLES. MAYBE NEG 1 DEG 10-20MINS, PER SIDE.
ZERO FRONT TOE
REAR TOE-IN POSITIVE 15MINS,PER SIDE.
hows that lot sound.Havent priced it yet,run out time.Thanks so far.
See comments
Slack off all roll bar mounting bolts and drop link bolts, front and rear, before adjusting the ride heights.
Remove the rear wheel spacers if possible (change to 215/40 tyres? front and rear). Or, if using front camber plates, with the extra negative camber and increased front ride height, you might be able to use your 10mm spacers at the front and your 5mm spacers at the rear.
Evening,nearly there.
Would it be worth putting a wanted advert on here for a 22mm Superpro,Eibach,hardrace or Cusco.
Rubber C shaped rear drop link,so will be changing
I presume I will be using the 22mm rear chassis mount bush,not the one supplied with the new bar
Would it be worth putting a wanted advert on here for adjustable camber plates?
With the list you have answered and I have priced,it comes to in parts alone.(not including p&p,fitting,new camber plates and alignment)£557.79.(Or your advice fee).Any recommeded garage for setting up the aligment or you of course.
I think that is a realistic start for upgrades and affordable.Will get stuck in,in a couple of weeks.Thanks for your knowledge,will let you know how I get on.
These any good
And of course none of the bolts line up,which is natural at the moment.Is there a position i can put them in once fitted so i can at least drive it until aligment done,or you wouldnt.Cheers
That's spot on - fit them like that.
After you've adjusted the ride heights, adjust the camber plates all the way inboard, then check if you've got any interference lock to lock - inboard and outboard and front tyre tread to wing.
I know you've got tyre rubbing issues, with your current wheel/tyre set-up.
Try to use your 10mm spacer at the front, and see if you've got enough clearance to use the 5mm spacer at the rear (if not? Use a 10mm spacer at the rear, as well as the front).
If you've got inboard rubbing at the front? Adjust the camber plate to a slightly more outward position, until you've got 5mm clearance.
I'd drive it to the alignment, I wouldn't drive it otherwise.
Be nice if they lined up that well when fitted.Any particular order of fitting.Will be getting the rest of the stuff to fit.The car will be trailered when aligned.Cheers
For the alignment:
Stick 40kg in the boot to simulate a full fuel tank - as the alignment figures I've given you are for a full tank.
If tank is already half full of fuel, add 20kg etc
If corner weighting? Weigh yourself, so they can add your weight to the drivers seat.
I'd still rotate the pins on the aluminium lower control arms, even using your adjustable top mounts.
Start with Zero front toe
15mins positive toe-in, per side, at the rear.
Well that didnt work.I have Leda coilovers,so these must only work on standered suspension.As you can see the old top hat hole is larger ,but the new adjustable hole is smaller ,but larger on the otherside<but the accompaning nut has a shoulder on it and the shockabsorber thread is different/smaller size shaft.The shockabsorber doesnt fit flush/tight past the thread. Will have to saell on.
Replacement has arrived,do I need to take the leg off again to see if it fits and also will I need to purchase some sort of 17mm nut with a shoulder.Hopefully collecting rest of Suspension this week.
As you've been using the stock top mounts, the Leda's should have a 14.9mm od, 15mm tall?, cylindrical section, under the threads - the male threads should be either M12 or M14? 1.25 or 1.5 pitch. Looks like M12 x 1.25 pitch from the pic?
The top perch of the spring appears to have the cone washer in situ? (I assume it's the cone washer? Not some other spacer?) But, if it is a cone washer, it was fitted upside down?!
The blue top mounts are 15mm id.
The top spring perch should contact the OUTER circular section on the base of the blue top mount, leaving the INNER bearing to articulate freely, not jam against the spring perch. IF there is contact you will need a spacer/collet.
The top fixing nut should be flanged, or have a spacer with a large enough diameter to contact only the OUTER circular section, not the INNER bearing, which must be free to move.
That design is similar to Noltec, which used to have various top and bottom collets, for various strut types. Mocom used to sell Noltec top mounts and the collets might be worth a call, if you get stuck?
You need to orientate the top mounts so no, or as little amount of blue metal is showing, as the mount is moved diagonally inboard. Ideally it should be the circular section in the body of the car, that stops the adjustment progress, not the blue metal of the top mount.
Last edited by 2pot; 23 September 2020 at 02:07 PM.
Evening chaps,this is now going into territory way above my knowledge/paygrade.Would be going down this route if racing not half a dozen or so trackdays a year, or deep pockets! Think I shall stick to my original brief,you guys are on another level.Collecting tyres and suspension tomorrow,will help my mechanic fit them, and then get it aligned and corner weighted.The front leda legs have the camber bolt on the top hole of the legs.Will keep updating.thanks for advice
Tyres and Suspension( short of hardrace bush and whiteline c-link),also ordered trackrod/ends,as a bit of play on the wheel.Mechanic mate and spend Saturday afternoon fitting everything except drop link and group n bush,but lubricated arms ready for the other 2 bits.All went sweet and steering felt immediately better,for the little I could test.Cannot wait for aligment/corner wieghting.
Finally,last two pieces of the puzzle have arrived.Word of adivce,when ordering whiteline products,check their in stock first.Car booked in at the end of the month for aligment and corner wieghting,with 2pots suggestions in mind.
30 July 2020, 05:39 PM
V3 type r fast road/track arbs etc on a budget
owerflex/PFR69/303/19(already fitted to car 2yrs ago)
