Turbo2

Just a quick comment about Champions League. As well as having 2 English sides in the final, not one of the 4 English teams went out of the competition to a foreign side. I bet no other country will ever achieve that statistic again.

Shows you how little effort the English players from those clubs put in when they have an England shirt on doesn't it?

r32

yes but most of these teams are made up of foreign players ........ and very few english players, perhaps we could get Ronaldo and Tevez to become English?

r32

I mean even the damn manager is foreign, he cant even speak English

EVOVI

Or is it cause they all have foreign superstars that got them that far in the champions league and they make our english players look a bit better than they really are.

PeteBrant

There's nothing wrong with English players. England are among the top 8 teams in the world. We just think we have a divine right to be number 1 , that's the problem.

Paul3446

At least United are the one English team who have a fair few British/Irish players, this isn't a bad line up:

Foster
Neville
Ferdinand
Brown
O Shea
Fletcher
Scholes
Carrick
Giggs
Rooney
?

OK, so we'll have to start the game with 10 men!

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

It's about the blend in a team. The English players are very good individually.

Gerrard has been Liverpool's best players for years, Rio, Carrick, Scholes, Brown and Hargreaves were superb for United last night, Terry and Lampard the main stays at Chelsea. the difference is their talents are blended with the others from the foreign players who generally are technically better and more comfortable on the ball. This gives you the drive, fight and power of the English game with the finesse, skill and tricks from the continent and further afield. until we change the way we teach kids the game nothing will change.

Turbo2

If that's true about "top 8", why didn't England even qualify for Euro 2008 then? That's 14 teams just from Europe who appear to better than England (exc hosts). Factor in the rest of the world (Brazil, Argies etc) and I think we can honestly say that we are far from Top 8.

Paul3446

Ah, forgot Hargreaves, I'll stick him in midfield and put Giggs up front with Rooney.

Paul3446

Here's the equivalent Arsenal side:

?
?
?
?
Hoyte
?
?
?
Walcott
?
?

skoobidude

I'd like to see all "English" clubs be restricted to take on players who are born and bread in the home town of the club only.

Also England to have players born and bread in ... England!
I'm sure it would shake the system up a bit

PeteBrant

A couple of bad peformances does not make you a bad team.

We aren't far from top 8 - We are top 8.

See if you can name more than 7 team that would beat us consistantly.

Turbo2

England's official FIFA world Ranking: 11
That will presumably fall further when the other Euro teams start playing without us in the summer.

FIFA.com - Ranking Table

PeteBrant

I thinkt he "too many foreign players" argument is uttely flawed.

And here's the reason.

The level you have to be to be able to play in the Premiership has risen. THis is partially due to the influx of foregn players.

Therefore in order to suceed in the Premiership, you have to be of a higher quality, than, say , 10 years ago.

The result of this is that only the best English players will make it in the Prem. As opposed ot merely "ok" players making it.

Te end result is the best crop of a talent we have seen in a generation, because the bar has been raised and the wheat is seperated from the chaff.

If you have to choose a team of player, I would much rahter choose from a pool 60 of the highest qualiaty, than 120 of average quality.

People are assuming that if you limit the number of players, that the quality of English players will get better. Nothing could be further from the turth - all it means is that the level required to play in the premiership will be lowered.

PeteBrant

the FIFA rankings aren't worth ****. Th ELO rankings are where it's at - A far more accurate system - And England are 8th under that measure.

World Football Elo Ratings

I think you will find almost all the team rankings in the ELO table are far more realisitic.

I am simply not having it that Greece could consistantly beat England, which is what the FIFA rankings suggest.

Turbo2

Yeah and nor would Croatia, would they (ranked below England in 11 or 13 depending on what list you prefer?). Oh hang on didn't we lose to them both home and away recently?

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Who cares, its only football!

dpb

yes but the modern 'game' has **** all to do sportsmanship - its just business

+Doc+

I'm sure its down to some insane EU employment ruling that we can't have capped numbers of foreign players playing in our leagues.

PeteBrant

What are you saying here, then, that the FIFA list is ****e or the EOL one is?

Big Col

the problem with the English national team isn't the players, it's the manager IMHO.

Who was the last really great england manager? Who was the last english manager to win the premiership or a european trophy?

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

its ok, give it 20 years and the england national team will be full of players with 'ski' on their surnames

davegtt

You really think? We've had some top names, including the one we have now, in no way do I think that means we are going to win the World Cup, the blend of players just isnt there. We do have some great players but the sporting pedigree isnt bred into them anymore, its no longer being taught to go out and win, we dont care about the losers who cry etc, kids are being taught be half decent at football and you'll be rich and **** a member of a girls band etc.

Years ago kids would dream of playing in the FA Cup final or earning an England cap, unfortunately I dont believe thats the case anymore. Off course there is the exception but the exception doesnt make a winning team.

PeteBrant

Sven Goran Ericsson, and of course, the current Manager Capello.

Do you mean "English" Manager or "England" manager?

Mitchy260

Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland



England are a top 8 team yes, they are just under achievers. Scotland had more right after their performances in the qualifiers than England to be there.

If you could have the English team with the Scottish drive and spirit, they would almost certainly be a top 3 side.

Turbo2

Just that both these sets of rankings are probably not purely based on your opinion of who is better than who.

You say that a couple of bad performances don't make a bad team. Well we'll agree to differ on that point, but what is unequivocal is that England finished a poor third in an easy Euro 2008 qualification group behind teams now ranked (by ELO or FIFA respectively) 12 or 13 (Croatia) and 28 or 25 (Russia). I would suggest that the evidence shows that we are a bad team.

PeteBrant

[/quote]

When it comes to England V Scotland I thinky ou can throw the ranking out of the window. Like any Derby game its all about desire, and the head to heads between England and Scotland reflect this, they are fairly even

PeteBrant

I think the team and individual players are right up there. I just think the Manager was a complete ****.

When Sven Was in charge, for all his faults, he won games. We lost just 4 competitive games under his charge, and 2 of those were on pens.

I don't think it is any coincidence that the same players under Sven all of the sudden struggled to qualify from a seemingly easy group under McClaren

Turbo2

I agree 100%

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

When footy fans talk about the team that they support, why do they say 'we lost' or 'we won'? Wish I could do that from sitting on the sofa!