The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

How did England ****** defeat from the jaws of success? Again the CESM displayed a white flag then got you from behind. At least Hodgson had the big cahunas to say it like it was, poor. Not even us Taff's like the CESM that much. Come on England, BUCK UP!!!!! Support us in a fortnight.

triple top

Blue dragoon the sympathy for England is not becoming from a Welshman and sounds a bit of a p!ss take IMO...If i'm wrong i apologise

Anyway.So you are playing the French in a 2 weeks time. Enjoy and should be a cracking game and i know who's my money on.

scooby-si

the way the welsh are playing my moneys on them at the minute

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

No not a P&ss Take. Rugby can be discussed over a beer without fur flying and fisty cuffs , unlike ome ports. England now have a confidence problem. But, I reckon they could do Ireland. Thoughts?

jasey

Title decider should be Wales v France - Ireland wont fancy playing England as underdogs - However the way England have capitulated / played poorly it's still too close to call - England still on course for the Wooden Spoon .

PMC555

If England beat us next weekend at home it would be a real upset on current form. Our forwards started firing against Scotland, and with a full backline
back hopefully, Ireland should win (We have a pretty good record against England in recent years anyhow)
France havn't performed at all yet, and only beat England due to the missed kicks (England could easily had 15-21 more points)

So the big match as I see it is still Ireland Wales - bring on the 19th March in Cardiff!!

PMC555

Blue Dragoon - do you support Cardiff in the league etc

Our Ulster boys are over to play Cardiff for the 4th time this season in April I think?

jasey

But it will be England's last chance to prove something this year - I'd rather be in Welsh/French boots having beat them already than going into a game against them where if they lose they will become the laughing stock of just about everybody .

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Sorry no, too much off pitch trouble. Son in law is though, a Holywood Boy. He's a Ger's Fan, never mind he may support a proper football team soon. But, should be a good match though.

Brit_in_Japan

errrrmmm, I think PMC555 is referring to the Cardiff Blues, not CCFC.

Are you sure you're a rugby fan?

Flatcapdriver

Am I the only one worried about the state of Northern Hemisphere Rugby in general? I appreciate everyone likes to get one over on England but the fact remains that England are desperately short of a full squad at the moment due to fitness problems and yet, depite playing appalling Rugby against France and Wales, they still only managed to lose by a few points - which doesn't say much for either of their opponents.

I can't see England taking the wooden spoon as they shouldn't be able to play that badly that they lose against either Scotland or Italy but the loss of Johnno is starting to show at the moment and until the likes of Grewcock et al can show similar spirit, we're in for a long road back to the top.

burgers22

I think you've got that right, France were so bad a against England, it took a special effort by England to loose that game, both side were pants. Wales & Irland look better, but niether has put up a good run against the southern sides. I reckon anyone of the super twelve side woulb give them a run for their money.

MB

PMC555

Yes, have to agree, the standard of Rugby being played in this six Nations
so far has been pretty poor.

Watched Ulster play a friendly against super 12 side the Bulls last Friday night, and saw a bit of the Sharks vs Harlequins on Sky sports - these teams look a class above clubs sides here, both of them have a lot of Springboks in their side, yet South Africa underperformed in the Autumn Internationals, lost to Ireland in Dublin and went down to a big score to England. Watched Wales outplay the All Blacks in the Autumn Test too.
Hopefully the Six Nations Rugby will get better towards the end of this
season, and build to wards a Lions tour to NZ.

Will be interesting to watch the Rugby Aid match on 5th March, where
a select Northern Hemisphere side (coached by Sir Clive) takes on a select team from Southern Hemisphere. Will give Clive a chance to try out some players for the Lions.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Yes, I like rugby hence the snub to the Blues. They spent a season playing on there own because they thought they where too good for Wales. They held the WRU to ransom to get rid of the Warriors during their second crap season ("we are the capital city"). Stole all the Warriors players and are still in decline. Bring back the Warriors !!!!!! I bet they don't get relegated and Ponty or Aberavon go up.

richieh

too true -looks like they are after the dragons next, perhaps they think they can have all regions disbanded then have the pick of players -apart from the fact that they'll all bugger off to france or england.
richie

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

The only other good thing about the Blues is you can park in there Carpark for £3 a day whn they are not playing. Right next to the Castle and the Angel Hotel. Bonus!!!!

Twigster Home

Oi!! Enough Blues bashing! the warriors went defunct because Leighton Samuel is a dumb-*** who wanted it all his own way, he gave Mr Moffett the opportunity to shve off one of the regions which was always his intention!! Bridgend have never been the side that Pontypridd were, and whilst I feel sorry for warriors supporters it is laughable to have not had a region based in the country's capital. Not to mention the scarlets going it alone as well!!

As for the state of northern hemisphere rugby, and the twaddle being talked on here about the standard of the six nations being poor.........
Have you even watched the games??? The Wales-England game wasn't that tidy but it was a great international match, Italy played really well against Ireland and Scotland may not have been pretty against France but it was a great performance!
Then last week, Wales were scintilating against the Italians and Ireland were very impressive in Scotland.
The only sides playing ****-poor rugby have been England and France, and if you still think that the quality is poor after that last match in Paris then I think you are mental!!!

Besides which, I watched the super twelve game between the hurricanes and the reds this morning, and to be totally honest I have seen better club games!! The standard of refereeing was appaling, the defences were allowed to get away with murder at the breakdown and the attacking was shocking!!

As for the North Vs South game, not that many of the lions players going to actually play in that game due to it being smack in the middle of the six-nations!!

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

London don't have a generic team. Poor bitter Blues fan.

Twigster Home

Not bitter. "Satisfied" I think is the expression.

Besides which, I don't hear anyone slagging off the dragons for their behaviour with Pontypool, or for the Scarlets who have been a joke for most of this season!
And London won't have a generic team, England's game is not regionally based!

baz sti 8

well said twig thats why i love ya m8

Twigster Home

fank-ew Baz!

Flatcapdriver

I take it you're a Welsh supporter then? To describe Wales against Italy as scintillating is over the top - it's very hard not to play well against Italy, unless you're Scotland of course. The same goes for the Ireland, Scotland game - neither teams are top drawer so any team with a half decent idea of how to play Rugby will put a big score against them.

To compare northern hemisphere Rugby at International level with Super 12s is plain daft. You don't compare club teams with International sides for obvious reasons.

The simple fact of the matter is that England are playing well below their standard and the likes of Wales and Ireland are only just beating them and when England gift games to France (who aren't playing well ether) or have a couple of tries disallowed like today, then we wouldn't be looking at a showdown between Wales and Ireland.

If Wales, Ireland or England were to go up against Australia or New Zealand then they would lose and I have my doubts about the Pumas or Yarpies on their day. It's good to see Wales and Ireland in with a chance but don't get carried away by it but by all means enjoy your time in the sun.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Normal and reasoned debate, unlike the kissball.

Twigster Home

Ok, ok, I'll tackle these in order.....
1) I didn't suggest the Wales V Italy GAME was scintilating, I said Wales were. Which is true, they were clinical and at times the rugby being played was breathtaking.
2) The Italians are a notoriously awkward side to play against due to their forward capability (witness Ireland only a week before), and if you need an idea of how to play the game to destroy either them or Scotland, then based on what I have seen of England over the last year then they are in serious trouble because aside from practised moves to Cueto (from Sale games I may add), England don't look any danger with ball in hand at all, aside from "Professional incidents" a-la Grewcocks block on O'gara which allowed the try. (which I thought was class BTW as a hooker )
3) I wasn't comparing the super 12 to International rugby, I was comparing it to the Heiniken cup which it cannot hold a candle to. (Harlequins are not a good example either as they are a poor side in real terms!)
4) Wales are all about confidence since the Autumn from last year, they are on a high and are playing well and confidence is what can win games, Ireland won yesterday without playing well because they were the more confident side. Wales won in Paris because they had the confidence to attack the French and not concede defeat.Furthermore, neither Wales nor Ireland played to their best against England, and if they had, both sides would have won more convincingly so it is of no use to suggest that England should ahve won either game.
5) England are not at their best, that is clear for all to witness and as a Welsh supporter who has suffered over recent times, I can sympathise with them! (Never thought I would say that!). But to simply believe that "Jonny will make it all better" is a total myth! Jason Robinson and the guys who were in the world cup side need to make their presences felt on the pitch, and they aren't. To be honest the under-21 and under-19 sides are not doing well either, so it is difficult to see a way out for them. They will never be a bad side, but unless someone comes through the ranks who can open the game up more then I fear that England's time at the top has come and gone for the next world cup!
6) As for the French, they were diabolical against Scotland, at best effective against England but against Wales they looked more like the France we all love watching, but perhaps did not have the self-belief to win the game. We shall see what happens in Dublin in two-weeks time with interest........
7)Southern hemisphere rugby......... Need I remind you that England and Ireland beat South Africa (Tri-nations champions) in the Autumn? Need I remind you that Wales only narrowly lost 32-30 to South Africa, and 32-31 to New Zealand? Did France not destroy Australia in Paris?
Just because England are not the best in the Northern hemisphere any more does not mean that the other sides will not step-up to that level! You are not the bee-all and end-all of rugby on this continent because of one world cup no matter how much some elements of the media would like it to be!!
8) Pumas...... didn't Wales just beat them in Argentina????
9) Don't EVER patronise the effort of the Welsh or Irish players by saying "it's good they can have a chance, enjoy your little bit of fun while you can". That is just insulting to professionals who deserve to be where they are! The best teams win the games, that is how the game of rugby is played and that is how it stays. Whichever team wins the six nations IS the best in the Northern Hemisphere whether you like it or not, and that is a fact.

As for New Zealand, well I wouldn't like to be Sir Clive Woodward at the moment because the amount of talent he has to choose from is breathtaking! I see no reason at all why WE can't all go out there and give the all-blacks a good thumping!!

For what it's worth, and for some more debate which I think is all good! My Lions team on PRESENT FORM ONLY.....
1) Tom Smith - Scotland
2) Shayne Byrne - Ireland
3) Gethin Jenkins (Controversial I know!!) - Wales
4) Paul O'Connell - Ireland
5) Malcolm O'Kelly - Ireland
6) Simon Taylor - Scotland
7) Martyn Williams - Wales
8) Martyn Corry - England
9) Gareth Cooper - Wales
10) Johnny Wilkinson (if 100% fit) - England
11) Shane Williams - Wales
12) Gavin Henson - Wales
13) Brian O'Driscoll (Captain) - Ireland
14) Jason Robinson - England
15) Gareth Thomas - Wales


Debate as you like!!

Duck_Pond

What people seem to forget, with Wilkinson being in the limelight always, is that England are also lacking Greenwood, Hill, and Tindall (and others), all of whom are world class players, and are injured at the moment.

I do believe that Jason Robinson should not be captain though, as he's too detached from the normal play to have any impact on it. And he doesn't seem to be very vocal at times when previous captains would be seen to be rallying the troops.

dsmith

I agree - I dont believe in rugby you can captain effectively from full back - you're simply too detached. We are lacking someone in the pack who will lead both by example and with a bit of shouting.

He also seems over awed by being captain and unwilling to take the odd risk that you need for the extra spark.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Could it be that Wilkinson is being kept ouy for a reason. Burn out, over exposure or that if England still lost they would blame him ie look's what happened to Hodgson, poor lad. Are they saving him from Gazzerdom??? The truth is out there.

Twigster Home

Nah mate, he's injured!!
I wouldn't blame him for not coming back though, the flak Hodgson got is thoroughly unjustified as he is a good player!
Not sure if Tindall and Greenwood will be back either TBH. They are both in the twilight of theor careers and might not make it to hte next world cup, so Robinson may not choose them again.

I would make Corry the captain, get rid of Barkley and play Ollie Smith instead. But then I am Welsh so I don't want them to improve too much!!

Flatcapdriver

Twigster, I don't have as much time to answer some of your (well made points) but at the risk of this going of on a "what's wrong with England" tangent Grewcock and Benetsi are two players I'd rather not see on the International field - tossers, the pair of them.

As others have said, the captaincy should not be with Robinson but either Corry or Moody should be given it - the captain should be in the pack not leading from behind and I don't share your pessimism for their future as one advantage all the injury problems have shown us is the depth of talent out there. Whether it can be harnessed effectively is another matter and the jury's still out on Robinson and whilst we're at it can we please get rid of that *** Thompson.....

Fair point, which I agree with but I still think that the southern hemisphere sides will give any of the six nations sides a thumping and I may be wrong but I don't see this Lions side doing the stuff.


I disagree again. Ireland didn't look that confident to me given that I was expecting a slaughtering in the line out, which while iffy from England's point of view (Thompson again) wasn't the wash out as predicted and the refereeing was diabolical - the first England try should never have been given whilst the two disallowed tries were alright from where my view. My point here is that if Ireland and Wales are as good as you believe then they should be steamrolling England and they're not which is why I don't share some of the euphoria that our Celtic cousins do and this was the point about enjoying your time in the sun and not as you misquoted me as .....

....

No-one is disputing that but it doesn't mean that they're the best in the world and you seem to think that I have some issue with any other team that wins it when it's clearly not the case - this isn't footbal we're discussing here!

When England, Ireland, Wales or France can step up to the plate when it matters on a regular basis and not some "friendly" with southern hemisphere sides, then I'll be convinced but I'm not as yet.

Twigster Home

If I recall corectly, a very young (avg 22 yrs old) Welsh side scared the living daylights out of both the All-Blacks and England in the world cup, arguably outplaying the eventual champions in the quarter final for about 60 minutes of the game!!
The next world cup is going to be a big test!
I honestly disagree about the SH though, certainly with regards to Australia. Whilst they put in some big performances I don't think they are the side they were, and I think they are very beatable! S.A are a big team, but they have proven unable to deal with a high-paced game and Wales, Ireland and England in succession made them look slow on the pitch.
New Zealand are the only SH side that I have concerns over. They have so much talent it is simply rediculous, as well as a coach who will sort their forward play out! But, again, they have no pack to speak of at the minute and Wales were arguably unfortunate with some refereeing costing them the game! Shane Williams et-al were easily able to cut through the defence and make the all-blacks look very ordinary!

That said, the following week NZ gave the French the hammering of a lifetime, so who knows!!

Ireland are a confident side for definite, in fact for me they looked over confident because at times it was all too laid-back! That said, Wales sometimes look like they are trying to do too much so I suppose there is a balance! I am trying hard not to get carried away because, having watched Leinster and Munster in the Celtic league, I can definitely say that Ireland haven't yet cut loose the way they can! Perhaps this is pressure, who knows! - Witness England in the world cup! On the previous years they were awesome at times, yet they made a meal and a half out of actually winning it!!

I don't share your optimism though, for me the talent that has emerged to replace the old heads is not up to scratch. They seem to have one eye on off-pitch deals and only one eye on the ball. (too much money in the premiership for it's own good possibly??) Problem with Thompson is who to replace him with? Agree with you about Corry (see above post). As for the tries, ok. First try was an Irish penalty. Second should have stood so they cancel out, third one? Sorry mate. He was held-up, so it should have been a scrum-5 to England. Referee called it a maul though, so no try means Ireland ball. Bizarre him not going to the video ref but in all honesty it would have to have been a double-movement for it to be a try as Peter Stringer was lying under the ball!! Very poor refereeing, but there was a lot of niggly stuff away from the ball that England got away with which they were possibly a bit fortunate with! (men being taken out away from the ball on more than one occasion, not to mention a punch from Grewcock!).

Will be interesting to see how Ireland deal with France in two weeks time! Myself, I am 'quietly' confident for Scotland but every game is a potential banana skin if you don't play your game the way you want it to be played!! We shall see!!