Will Trump Bottle It?
#301
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Globalism is killing the middle classes and this is one of the root causes of all this, but this is a policy being pushed by liberals. You've got more poor people willing to do the jobs that the current middle class do, but for less. This is obviously bad for the middle classes whose job sectors are affected by this. The elite gain because their profits increase with all the cheap labour.
#302
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It's a massive shake up to the establishment. Look at all the global leaders who've been talking **** about him - now all going cap in hand and offering congrats as they're worried about trade.
Could be a good result for the UK as Obama clearly had a strong dislike for the UK - Trump has often mentioned Brexit and said we'll be first in the queue for trade deals.
I think whats really ironic is Trump could really boost the middle class at the expense of the elites, so whereas inequality has increased under Obama, it may decrease under Trump. I guess we'll be able to judge in 4 years.
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Yeah I'm aware of that, but you can also look at it that he can't be bought. Look at Clinton with money from the bankers, big business, Saudi - she can be.
It's a massive shake up to the establishment. Look at all the global leaders who've been talking **** about him - now all going cap in hand and offering congrats as they're worried about trade.
Could be a good result for the UK as Obama clearly had a strong dislike for the UK - Trump has often mentioned Brexit and said we'll be first in the queue for trade deals.
I think whats really ironic is Trump could really boost the middle class at the expense of the elites, so whereas inequality has increased under Obama, it may decrease under Trump. I guess we'll be able to judge in 4 years.
It's a massive shake up to the establishment. Look at all the global leaders who've been talking **** about him - now all going cap in hand and offering congrats as they're worried about trade.
Could be a good result for the UK as Obama clearly had a strong dislike for the UK - Trump has often mentioned Brexit and said we'll be first in the queue for trade deals.
I think whats really ironic is Trump could really boost the middle class at the expense of the elites, so whereas inequality has increased under Obama, it may decrease under Trump. I guess we'll be able to judge in 4 years.
Trump's tax plans look highly like to exacerbate this. So hardly a liberal thing.
There isn't going to a queue for new trade deals, there will be a queue of deals Trump wants to renegotiate. So God only knows where that leaves the UK. Also surely you didn't actually believe him on that?
All this crap about conservative views being supressed, the facts simply are at odds with you on this. There are media channels in the US basically cheerleading for Trump.
And casually regurgitating republican smears on the Clinton's kind of demonstrates that you're not actually interested in the facts.
The bottom line is Liberal/progressive values are fundamentally good and decent.
Trump's views are fundamentally bad.
This schizm in Western politics will continue until we find a better way to execute progressive economics.
The politics of 'we' are still far superior the politics of 'me'
To describe the US political environment as liberal is laughable btw
Last edited by Martin2005; 09 November 2016 at 09:01 PM.
#306
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Income inequality has been increasing in the US since 'Reagonomics' (where it step changed).
Trump's tax plans look highly like to exacerbate this. So hardly a liberal thing.
There isn't going to a queue for new trade deals, there will be a queue of deals Trump wants to renegotiate. So God only knows where that leaves the UK. Also surely you didn't actually believe him on that?
All this crap about conservative views being supressed, the facts simply are at odds with you on this. There are media channels in the US basically cheerleading for Trump.
And casually regurgitating republican smears on the Clinton's kind of demonstrates that you're not actually interested in the facts.
The bottom line is Liberal/progressive values are fundamentally good and decent.
Trump's views are fundamentally bad.
This schizm in Western politics will continue until we find a better way to execute progressive economics.
The politics of 'we' are still far superior the politics of 'me'
To describe the US political environment as liberal is laughable btw
Trump's tax plans look highly like to exacerbate this. So hardly a liberal thing.
There isn't going to a queue for new trade deals, there will be a queue of deals Trump wants to renegotiate. So God only knows where that leaves the UK. Also surely you didn't actually believe him on that?
All this crap about conservative views being supressed, the facts simply are at odds with you on this. There are media channels in the US basically cheerleading for Trump.
And casually regurgitating republican smears on the Clinton's kind of demonstrates that you're not actually interested in the facts.
The bottom line is Liberal/progressive values are fundamentally good and decent.
Trump's views are fundamentally bad.
This schizm in Western politics will continue until we find a better way to execute progressive economics.
The politics of 'we' are still far superior the politics of 'me'
To describe the US political environment as liberal is laughable btw
I agree with you that liberal/progressive values are at least in part decent, but they're also usually fantasy and totally unsustainable from an economic standpoint.
It's time for realism, and getting things on a fair and sustainable path, and clearly that doesn't confirm to liberal fantasies. Western countries are living so far beyond their means it's just crazy, we've got the chance to change things while we can, or keep our heads in the sand and hit a brick wall.
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You sound like a bitter liberal!.. oh wait a minute!
I agree with you that liberal/progressive values are at least in part decent, but they're also usually fantasy and totally unsustainable from an economic standpoint.
It's time for realism, and getting things on a fair and sustainable path, and clearly that doesn't confirm to liberal fantasies. Western countries are living so far beyond their means it's just crazy, we've got the chance to change things while we can, or keep our heads in the sand and hit a brick wall.
I agree with you that liberal/progressive values are at least in part decent, but they're also usually fantasy and totally unsustainable from an economic standpoint.
It's time for realism, and getting things on a fair and sustainable path, and clearly that doesn't confirm to liberal fantasies. Western countries are living so far beyond their means it's just crazy, we've got the chance to change things while we can, or keep our heads in the sand and hit a brick wall.
#308
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countries like Canada, or closer to home the Northern European countries
Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Holland
but we don't do we
the countries that have follow the neoliberal Chicago school - aka America and the UK
suffer from a low wage, low skill, low aspiration economy based on short term / part time or zero hours contracts or manufactured "self employment" that all mask the true un and under employment figures - inevitable leading to massive wealth inequality, failing social mobility, and polarised society
you see all of the above in the UK and the US (hence Brexit and Trump) but nowhere near as much in the liberal/progressive countries listed above
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 09 November 2016 at 10:14 PM.
#309
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More people actually voted for Hillary , could be a million more at the end of counting
kippers/nigel would be up in arms if it were here
instead hes gunning for a job under trump
kippers/nigel would be up in arms if it were here
instead hes gunning for a job under trump
#310
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anyone who is interested what a US wide application of Trumps economic polices should google something along the lines of
Senator Brownback Kansas experiment
Senator Brownback Kansas experiment
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Sweden - suffering in a similar way with the 2nd highest rape statistics in the world, and increase that goes hand in hand with increasing immigration. Some crazy liberal policies like Police encouraged to keep a lid on reporting migrant crime, numerous 'ghetto' areas around big cities like Stockholm, intimidation of non-liberal voters as you can legally check who people have voted for. Another prime candidate for a liberal backlash in the coming years with the far right.
Holland - Gert Welders 'Party for freedom', which wants to ban all mosques, is now the biggest party in Holland. Again the result of liberal policies.
Norway - Well they've got a massive sovereign wealth fund built up while oil prices were high, but now that they sell oil at a loss and have been hit with a refugee influx this is dwindling, so this isn't a sustainable situation, and liberal policies aren't generally sustainable.
Liberal policies are just fantasy, and if you try and force them on the population you just sow the seeds of a far-right backlash.
#313
Bonnie Greer said on the Sky press preview that Trump, after winning, thought that he was to serve only for two years. One of his loyals pointed out to him that 'it's actually a four-year long gig, mate!' I had heard the speech bit, in which he said that he would be the president for 'two, four or perhaps even eight years'. I take this as him not being so sure whether he would be able to handle the full term, or would he get thrown out. 'Brexit times ten' seems to know his shortcomings hence unsure about how long he'll last. It's like me winning an Airbus 350 to fly around, but feeling all confuzzled once in the pilot seat. The look of the control panel would freak me out and make me shorten my span inside the cockpit.
Can't wait to see how he operates, once he's all set in his new White House office. He may do half ok with his 'outside the box' approach.
Can't wait to see how he operates, once he's all set in his new White House office. He may do half ok with his 'outside the box' approach.
Last edited by Turbohot; 09 November 2016 at 11:21 PM.
#314
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Oh yeah and look where the liberal policies are getting them?! Germany is a happy place right now since the open door policy on refugees. I guess you're willing to ignore the numerous terrorist attacks, increases in violent crime and rape, sharp rise in support of anti-immigrant AfD party, yeah real liberal success story.
Sweden - suffering in a similar way with the 2nd highest rape statistics in the world, and increase that goes hand in hand with increasing immigration. Some crazy liberal policies like Police encouraged to keep a lid on reporting migrant crime, numerous 'ghetto' areas around big cities like Stockholm, intimidation of non-liberal voters as you can legally check who people have voted for. Another prime candidate for a liberal backlash in the coming years with the far right.
Holland - Gert Welders 'Party for freedom', which wants to ban all mosques, is now the biggest party in Holland. Again the result of liberal policies.
Norway - Well they've got a massive sovereign wealth fund built up while oil prices were high, but now that they sell oil at a loss and have been hit with a refugee influx this is dwindling, so this isn't a sustainable situation, and liberal policies aren't generally sustainable.
Liberal policies are just fantasy, and if you try and force them on the population you just sow the seeds of a far-right backlash.
Sweden - suffering in a similar way with the 2nd highest rape statistics in the world, and increase that goes hand in hand with increasing immigration. Some crazy liberal policies like Police encouraged to keep a lid on reporting migrant crime, numerous 'ghetto' areas around big cities like Stockholm, intimidation of non-liberal voters as you can legally check who people have voted for. Another prime candidate for a liberal backlash in the coming years with the far right.
Holland - Gert Welders 'Party for freedom', which wants to ban all mosques, is now the biggest party in Holland. Again the result of liberal policies.
Norway - Well they've got a massive sovereign wealth fund built up while oil prices were high, but now that they sell oil at a loss and have been hit with a refugee influx this is dwindling, so this isn't a sustainable situation, and liberal policies aren't generally sustainable.
Liberal policies are just fantasy, and if you try and force them on the population you just sow the seeds of a far-right backlash.
mmmm who/what caused all those refugees from Iraq /Syria / North Africa
mmmm who do you think?
those swedish /German interventionist bstards -- mmm no don't think so
anyone take a guess?
#315
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#316
I'm tolerant of liberals, and respect anyones opinion and viewpoint, but many liberals are not tolerant of other peoples views and that's why conservative views are being forced underground - and the polls got it so wrong. People are in many cases afraid to express their opinion because they don't want to suffer violence and intimidation from liberals.
I'm coining the phrase "Shouty Lefty Syndrome" for it.
#317
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LOL, Sj, I believe the shouty lefty syndrome phrase has already been coined long before the phrase "shouty blue haired lady" etc.
It's an interesting twist in modern society where IMO the vocal minority used to be the facists and extreme right. Historically in the UK the vocal majority was the unionists, but gradually that step changed into a equal left/right split and now more of a vocal minority. But still very vocal.
Like facists, they've always ignored or demonised people's differing political views, but these days their voice carries a lot less weight.
IMHO....< --- respect it
It's an interesting twist in modern society where IMO the vocal minority used to be the facists and extreme right. Historically in the UK the vocal majority was the unionists, but gradually that step changed into a equal left/right split and now more of a vocal minority. But still very vocal.
Like facists, they've always ignored or demonised people's differing political views, but these days their voice carries a lot less weight.
IMHO....< --- respect it
Last edited by ALi-B; 10 November 2016 at 07:09 AM.
#319
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For some perspective
It is the Horse Head and Flame Nebulae in Orion in very deep NII narrow band.
Large image btw
http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co.../HHneb_NII.jpg
It is the Horse Head and Flame Nebulae in Orion in very deep NII narrow band.
Large image btw
http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co.../HHneb_NII.jpg
#321
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LOL, Sj, I believe the shouty lefty syndrome phrase has already been coined long before the phrase "shouty blue haired lady" etc.
It's an interesting twist in modern society where IMO the vocal minority used to be the facists and extreme right. Historically in the UK the vocal majority was the unionists, but gradually that step changed into a equal left/right split and now more of a vocal minority. But still very vocal.
Like facists, they've always ignored or demonised people's differing political views, but these days their voice carries a lot less weight.
IMHO....< --- respect it
It's an interesting twist in modern society where IMO the vocal minority used to be the facists and extreme right. Historically in the UK the vocal majority was the unionists, but gradually that step changed into a equal left/right split and now more of a vocal minority. But still very vocal.
Like facists, they've always ignored or demonised people's differing political views, but these days their voice carries a lot less weight.
IMHO....< --- respect it
#324
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the key to defining the future is understanding the past
and off course you dn't want to talk about who caused it - because it was UK and the US - it was us
we stirred the **** jar, and now the Danes / Swedes et al have to lick the stick
and you still give them grief and say their economic model is flawed -- lol
Donald J Trump, an inherited billionaire who outsources his manufacturing to china/Indonesia , employed armies of foreign labour to build his hotels, has been bankrupt at least once
is NOT the future
you think he is - great
we will know in about 4 to 5 years time
and off course you dn't want to talk about who caused it - because it was UK and the US - it was us
we stirred the **** jar, and now the Danes / Swedes et al have to lick the stick
and you still give them grief and say their economic model is flawed -- lol
Donald J Trump, an inherited billionaire who outsources his manufacturing to china/Indonesia , employed armies of foreign labour to build his hotels, has been bankrupt at least once
is NOT the future
you think he is - great
we will know in about 4 to 5 years time
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 10 November 2016 at 08:39 AM.
#328
LOL, Sj, I believe the shouty lefty syndrome phrase has already been coined long before the phrase "shouty blue haired lady" etc.
It's an interesting twist in modern society where IMO the vocal minority used to be the facists and extreme right. Historically in the UK the vocal majority was the unionists, but gradually that step changed into a equal left/right split and now more of a vocal minority. But still very vocal.
Like facists, they've always ignored or demonised people's differing political views, but these days their voice carries a lot less weight.
IMHO....< --- respect it
It's an interesting twist in modern society where IMO the vocal minority used to be the facists and extreme right. Historically in the UK the vocal majority was the unionists, but gradually that step changed into a equal left/right split and now more of a vocal minority. But still very vocal.
Like facists, they've always ignored or demonised people's differing political views, but these days their voice carries a lot less weight.
IMHO....< --- respect it
I guess the difference is we're used to it here, and by that I mean we've all been bitching at each other for the last 14 years on SN about one thing or another with very little substantiate fact and a whole lot of gusto. And when somebody takes the time to post something that is fact-based and well thought out it's a case of TLDR, bored now...
#329
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It wasn't liberal policies that caused the rise of IS/Al Qaeda etc.
It does matter who caused it, if only to illustrate why you should not repeat those mistakes.
How you deal with it can exacerbate those mistakes, which is what Trump is probably going to do.
In 4 years time, we shall know! I suspect it will be a shorter time frame time until we have a pretty good inkling
#330
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