Lee-B STi Type UK

I'm looking to get a new alarm/immobiliser system (cat 1) for one of my cars, I have always had cliffords before (magic key, arrow and concept models)

Thing is its been a while since ive needed to fit one to a car and have heard lots of bad things about clifford systems and problems owners are having, even if you look at the posts in this security section a large amount are regarding Clifford problems . This has put me off somewhat, even though I had no problems at all with mine .

I know it is down to the quality of the installation a lot of the time so would really appreciate your input and comments regarding what is a recommended make and system AND if anyone knows of mobile installers who are doing any deals/offers at the moment?

Thanks in advance

Lee

Lee-B STi Type UK

^^^^ Forgot to mention I have two friends who have had different Clifford systems fitted by GAP security (supposedly well recommended mobile fitter!)

They both needed at least 3 call outs each in the first month/6 weeks!

*CONFUSED*

Opinions and advice really wanted so I can get this sorted quickly!

Cheers

Lee

Lee-B STi Type UK

Bttt

Lee

500

What area are you in Lee?

I'd recomend a Toad Ai606, pretty much all the functions and hardly ever any problems. the only things it hasnt got are a turbo timer and Blackjax (which can both be fited seperatly anyway)

Lee-B STi Type UK

Im in Hertfordshire (Hitchin) matey,

Never had a toad system before and dont know much about them, but the extra features bit sounds good .

Im unsure about adding a turbo timer cos ive heard some things like if your in a smack and cant turn the car off cos of the turbo timer is running

Blackjax sounds useful its something ive never had, but like the sound of.

Who to use for fitting?

Lee

MotorG Raf

Clifford is a very reliable system. Just make sure that you go to an authorised dealer that is also VSIB approved. The Clifford and Viper range is very popular because of the turbo timer option. The clifford also has the option of blackjax but you can add this as an added extra on all other systems.

jbrayley

The only people who recommend GAP is Max Power

kittle

i have a toad and never had ne problems with it. been spot on through and through

Lee-B STi Type UK

Who would you guys say is the best mobile installation company then?
(VSIB-approved)

Is GAP security a bad idea and does anyone have experience of others that are really good?

So far looks like Toad and clifford are not bad at all by the comments......

still unsure what to do


Lee

jbrayley

In my opinion, if you really care about keeping your motor then dont use a mobile installer (sorry of that offends anyone). I travelled two hours to go to the clifford dealer quicksilver in birmingham who did a superb job. Took them two days to install a clifford concept 600 on my Escort Cosworth. Never had a problem with it and it was installed to a very high standard (my mate who is an Auto Electrician checked it out for me).

In my opinion, in order to do a top installation you will need to remove a lot of the dash, and sometimes this isnt feasable for a mobile engineer to do, although I am sure there are a few out there who would go that extra mile.

Lee-B STi Type UK

^ cheers, might mean ive got a journey to plan if thats the case

Any other takers? Good/bad experiences?

Lee

jbrayley

Where are you based Lee?

Lee-B STi Type UK

Hitchin - Hertfordshire, not very far from Luton and the M1.

You got anyone to recommend?

Lee

Knighty99

iTrader: (1)

LEE, why don't you try LM Car Audio in Knebworth there good at fitting everything to do with ICE and security for cars
here's there number :- 01438 812444
Not too far from Hitchin just the other side of stevenage and i thimk they come out and fit them too

I had a Toad a606 fitted to my old car had no problems, the range ain't all that thou on the key fob?

Dan

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

Go for a TOAD AI606 CAT 1 alarm its approx £240 supplied and fitted at most car alarm outlets, its extremely reliable and never goes wrong, nothing fancy just does the job, i know of about 8 people with this system fitted to thier cars and they havn't had a single problem...

Lee-B STi Type UK

Cheers Dan ,

Just having a look at where it is on multimap. I've only got to go down the a602 to lister hospital roundabout then take A1 for 1 junction then station road, not far at all! It looks like my problem may be solved, will call them in the morning and see what they can do for me!

Cheers

Lee

Lee-B STi Type UK

I'll ask about Toad and Clifford products and see what they think, they seem to be the flavours of the month!

January sale ????

Lee

Mark2wrx

Try (in car electrics) in St albans..Speak to pete..He will give you a good price..They fitted my clifford G5 full closure with blackjax and built in turbo timer..Plus they are authorised clifford installers/dealers..you get all the paperwork..plus its just round the corner from where you live..
Heres the link
IN CAR ELECTRICS

Knighty99

iTrader: (1)

Yea they never used to favour the cliffords and prefered Toad, but clifford have brought out a new range of cliffords alarms which they say are better than the old range of alarms and the toads.

Dan

Jesus H

Have a look at the new Viper alarms dude. Viper 460xv - same price as a Toad but better built and has more options available.

The new viper 500xv looks fantastic but they wont be available until march (unless you know a really good clifford agent as they may have some pre-release units right now)

MotorG Raf

If anyone is interested in the new 500XV Viper alarm (cat1) with cool colour LCD remote fob then PM me as i know of a dealer that already has quite a few in stock.

spaspeckerthedull

I've got an avital MAXX1 fitted to my classic wrx - but when it comes to telling your insurance there's a bit confusion surrounding them. Your insurance will have it listed as a CLIFFORD avital maxx1 but this is incorrect, the alarm is actually made by DEI, the company who own CLIFFORD, VIPER, AVITAL and a few more of the "high end" alarm manufacturers. I used to be an installer myself and know all about the problems pointed out on this thread but I've got to admit that this avital I've got now is superb - ultra reliable, does exactly what it says on the tin, been on the car now for 7 months and not 1 false alarm. I know it works as well because when some sh*thead try to steal my car from work last week the immobilisers did their job and I've still got the car, I had the inconvenience of replacing the locks etc but that's nothing compared to dealing with the insurance if they'd burnt or stripped it out. Another thing to consider is "add ons" like turbo timers, remote start etc. now I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain your car won't be covered if you use a turbo timer, the argument being that your car is still running ie NOT immobilised, all a thief has to do is gain entry and just keep adding time to the timer and he can drive it away. Ultimately its all down to personal preference - people will stick to what they're comfortable with or have prior knowledge of. I'm not knocking mobile installers (as mentioned I used to do it myself) but I really don't think a mobile installer can comfortably install something as complex as a CAT1 - he will be under certain time constraints, the weather, bad light etc - this type of service is fine for something like a CAT2 immobiliser (like a meta M36T2) because the install is not that involved, but IMHO workshop installs are probably better.

Flame suit on ...............

Jesus H

Did you know that the Toad Ai606 was based on the Avital units? The Maxx 1 is almost identical with the exception of a couple of features. They are so alike that you can actually take a Toad remote and an Avital remote apart, swap over the insides and they will work in each others cases. If memory serves me correctly the Ai606 is based on the Maxx 3 unit. The Maxx 3 was approved by thatcham in October 1999 but the Toad wasnt approved until November 99. So all you guys who say that Toad are better than Clifford had better come up with a new arguement...

Toad Ai606 is the same unit as the Avital Maxx 3 which was designed by DEI who just happen to own Clifford.

Lee-B STi Type UK

no need for flame suit I dont think, for me that is all good information, I didnt think about things like mobile installers in poor lighting (it is dark early at the moment) and time constraint for next job etc.....

Makes me think it is best for me to go to one of the above recommended shops, I have contacted both and do these prices sound right people?

These prices are 'fitted'

Clifford concept 650 £350
Avital Maxx1 £270
Viper 480vb £325

Not heard much about the viper stuff before but they look well specced up?
Anyone here got one or know much about them?

Im still confused as to what to get?

Lee

RESSE

iTrader: (1)

Lee

I have the Viper fitted to my STi RA (fitted 12/12/06).

Super bit of kit, but I did pay extra £70 for central locking motor.

Fitted at home - took the fitter a good few hours, but he removed my Sigma system and did a general "tidy up".

He had some great ideas on where to fit bonnet sensors - pm me if you want more information.

Richard

spaspeckerthedull

270 quid for a maxx1 is about right, they're usually pegged at between 2 to 3 hundred, the maxx1 comes with a spare channel so you can control accessories if you have them fitted, such as a remote boot release or if you REALLY had to have it you could have remote start, just takes a bit of extra wiring!! The fobs are waterproof and the buttons glow in the dark - I really can't sing its praises enough as I mentioned that because of it I still have my scoob. You also get a very good user manual and a PIN code that allows you, the user, to program certain functions such as passive arming/locking etc. Also, 70 quid for a central locking motor? that seems a bit steep, unless it was a replacement for an original scooby OEM off a later model? most installers use what's called an "actuator" and they come in 2 or 5 wire flavours depending on your setup - they're available from maplin for about 9quid. If you don't need a 5 wire master you can get frictionless actuators and wire them up using a couple of 5 pin relays, fitting brackets - or kits - can be got for a couple of quid but there's a lot of dicking about with rods and clamps to get the setup just right. this is a fantastic site for all things to with 12v and relays etc.

Car Security / Door Locks - Multiple Wire Systems, Add Auto Lock/Unlock

this is a good tutorial about fitting central locking, it's for a mazda mx5 so just ignore the bits about trim removal and stuff, it gives a good indication of how to set the locking rods and gives good pictures of the bits involved

Power Doorlock Installation for '99 Miata

but I think I've just hijacked this thread so I'll leave it there .............

Jesus H

I have a 500XV on my car and it's a great system. Full colour remote with animated command icons. A bit of a gimmick but hey

Good things.

More immobilisers than my toad. The viper has 3 the toad has 2
Better remote range than the toad in my last car. At least 10 times better
Cool remote that doesnt take batteries. It is rechargeable just like your mobile.

Bad things.
not found any yet but i will let you know.

"OE Alarm" Sam

Due to the nature of this thread and my obvious leanings toward the Sigma product, I thought it best just to let end users give their unbiased opinions of different products, based on their own experience.

Unfortunately, as a result of the ban on commercial user names, a number of posts have appeared in this thread in which the author's have not declared their interests in products they are recommending i.e. the fact that they are dealers and that the brands they are recommending are those that they sell.

Wonder who that could be?

The post directly above certainly gives the impression of a satisfied end-user rather than a dealer, however previous posts (although not always factually correct) do tend to suggest more than just a passing interest in security products.

Such posts will obviously be biased toward the products they stock, which is understandable, but personally I feel that they should declare an interest.

What I find unacceptable, is comments about other products that are misleading.

I feel I have to comment here as the implication above is that the Toad product is a copy of the Avital system and therefore inferior - this is not the case....
The two products were originally variants of the same platform, and manufactured by the same company (Liteon Automotive) and in the same factory, but for two different customers and markets - hence the similarity of PCB board design and housings.

The original Avital Maxx1 was manufactured by Liteon Automotive for distribution by DEI in the US only. The same Liteon platform, but with slightly different features, was also distributed in the UK under the Toad brand name.

Liteon did not intend the Avital range to be sold in the UK, as they already had a distributor for the product. When the Avital product continued to be marketed in the UK, this caused some commercial issues and Liteon stopped production of the Avital product.

DEI then took the Liteon product to have this made elsewhere (the Philipines I believe) as they are a distributor of product not a manufacturer - it was at this point that the original platform was copied by DEI's new manufacturer.
Despite the Thatcham approval dates, it is the Toad product that is still manufactured on the same Liteon production line, but the Avital product that is now manufactured elsewhere.



Rant over.... back to thread!

I would agree that the installation quality of a system is even more important than the choice of product.
We have far fewer issues with the Sigma product fitted to Subaru vehicles which now have the alarm wiring harness integrated into the factory wiring loom, than the same product, from the same production line, when fitted to vehicles in the after-market. Quality of connections, covert installation and correct adjustment of a system is everything.
Of your total outlay for a security system, the majority of your money is for the installation/labour.
Inevitably the cheaper the installation, the less time the installer will take, so whatever product you choose the cheapest option is unlikely to be the best from a security point of view - unfortunately the reverse is not always the case either, the dearest option doesn't always guarantee the best installation!
Asking previous customers for recommendations is definately the way to go, if you can filter out the genuine customers. Don't write a brand off just because of a little bad feedback, as usually this refects more on the installer in question than the product.

SS



P.S. If you require a Thatcham Cat 1 for insurance approval purposes, then Remote Start features will void the systems Cat 1 status, as will Turbo Timers that allow the vehicle's engine to run on for longer than 30 seconds after the ignition is turned off or the key is removed from the ignition.
Even in a sub 30 second Turbo Timer installations the installer must ensure that the timer is wired in series with the Cat 1 alarm/immobiliser's passive arming immobilisation circuits and not in parrallel - incorrect wiring ineffect by-passes the Cat 1's passive arming immobiliser circuits and would again void the Thatcham accreditation of any product.

SS

MotorG Raf

Sigma sam writing a school essay again!!!

We have not said anything about any other products. Just giving our opinion just like everyone else and just like you are on the thread. At the end of the day its down to the customer which system they go for.

"OE Alarm" Sam

Raf,
I'm not having a go at you there about misleading comments on other products - thats the other party.

However, I do feel that as installers/dealers/distributors etc of security systems we obviously have an interest in certain brands/products and that we should declare that interest if posting opinions on products - whether our own or others.

As you say, it's the customers choice and I agree. My main concern is that now "commercial user names" have been banned, posts that appear to be impartial recommendations are far from that, and that this could mislead forum users.

My posted opinions in this thread are just on installation importance.
My rant on the Toad/Avital product to put right a wrong - I'm passing no opinion on either product here.

My reason for taking part in the forum is to help existing Sigma users with their systems - all Uk Subarus have them as standard, so I've little to be gained from a sales point of view.
I might point out features etc if these are over-looked in a discussion and my usuall Remote Sart/Turbo Timer advice with regard to Cat 1 status, but would not recommend one brand/system over any other, or indeed declare one brand to be "better built" than any other - as some have in this very thread.

As far as I am aware we can still be above-board by stating company names etc in forum posts so no-one is in any doubt as to any possible bias toward a product - then the customer can take everything into account and it really is down to their choice.

SS