Tracker Technology flawed
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Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Isle of Sheppey, Kent - FSTi/TTR V6 DSG
I recently contacted a tracker supply to suggest that their equipment was flawed. It is something that has been bugging me for months, and I have now decided not to install a tracker on my new car.
This has been discussed in some length before, but generally there is a fine line on how much info can be posted for obvious reasons.
Fundamentally, the issue at hand is one of the installers boasting of the nth amount of hidden locations the tracker will be located within the car. In reality given the prerequisites of GPS this is not the case. A key part of the system will be installed (in the majority of cases) in the same location.
I am not going to describe it or point anyone towards it, but if people have 'found' it and have the same concerns as me....read on.
This is the reply I recieved:
And this was my reply:
Needless to say I didnt receive a response from the last email! I am truely concerned that subscribers are being taken for a ride, and urge all concerned to have a look in their car, and see if they come to the same conclusion as me.
If we can prove this on a case by case basis then maybe we can try to word a letter and claim back the cost of the subscription...
Would appreciate any thoughts
Cheers,
Mark
This has been discussed in some length before, but generally there is a fine line on how much info can be posted for obvious reasons.
Fundamentally, the issue at hand is one of the installers boasting of the nth amount of hidden locations the tracker will be located within the car. In reality given the prerequisites of GPS this is not the case. A key part of the system will be installed (in the majority of cases) in the same location.
I am not going to describe it or point anyone towards it, but if people have 'found' it and have the same concerns as me....read on.
This is the reply I recieved:
From what is written in your email please do not think me rude in saying that it is clear that you have a better knowledge of our product than a normal customer, allowing me to go into more technical depth regarding the nuances of GPS stolen vehicle detection.
As with all technology there are always ways and means of being able to disable any protective measures put in place. Agreeably the visibility of ######## would be a very big disadvantage for such a service. However, I am informed that our engineers never fit ######## in a location on show to any would be thieves. The unit is fitted covertly along with the rest of the unit meaning any thief would have to have a very impressive knowledge of stolen vehicle tracker installation to be able to tamper with the system. If this is not the case and you have a ################## then we would strongly recommend going back to the original installer as the covert nature of our system is its premium selling point.
Considering the product attributes of the competitors on the market many rival products are much less technically advanced. For example, Tracker actually works on the FM radio signal and so can be easily blocked from transmitting a signal by blocking devices that are purchasable from less reputable sources. We are so far unaware of any such technology that can block ########. It is for this reason that our product has been awarded a ‘Q’ standard from Thatchum, the independent body that evaluates stolen vehicle device effectiveness and is made up of a coalition of all of the top insurance companies. Many of our rival products have not attained such a rating.
In conclusion, although we fully accept that our product, as with any technology, has its weaknesses, the measures that we have put in place to make the system as covert as possible yield very high recovery rates of stolen vehicles, and with our technological infrastructure in place covering nearly all roads in Britain and a good working relationship with Police Constabularies all over the country means that in reality there are few product offerings on the market that are better for its purpose.
As with all technology there are always ways and means of being able to disable any protective measures put in place. Agreeably the visibility of ######## would be a very big disadvantage for such a service. However, I am informed that our engineers never fit ######## in a location on show to any would be thieves. The unit is fitted covertly along with the rest of the unit meaning any thief would have to have a very impressive knowledge of stolen vehicle tracker installation to be able to tamper with the system. If this is not the case and you have a ################## then we would strongly recommend going back to the original installer as the covert nature of our system is its premium selling point.
Considering the product attributes of the competitors on the market many rival products are much less technically advanced. For example, Tracker actually works on the FM radio signal and so can be easily blocked from transmitting a signal by blocking devices that are purchasable from less reputable sources. We are so far unaware of any such technology that can block ########. It is for this reason that our product has been awarded a ‘Q’ standard from Thatchum, the independent body that evaluates stolen vehicle device effectiveness and is made up of a coalition of all of the top insurance companies. Many of our rival products have not attained such a rating.
In conclusion, although we fully accept that our product, as with any technology, has its weaknesses, the measures that we have put in place to make the system as covert as possible yield very high recovery rates of stolen vehicles, and with our technological infrastructure in place covering nearly all roads in Britain and a good working relationship with Police Constabularies all over the country means that in reality there are few product offerings on the market that are better for its purpose.
Many thanks for you reply, it was much appreciated. As you mentioned I have good knowledge of tracking devices, and am speaking from some considerable experience.
There are some fundamentally basic principals to any GPS tracking system, regardless of its application, marine, car, plane etc.
################################################## ################################################## ##############################
Due to the miracles of miniaturisation, ######## can be quite small, but not invisible! Typically these are like ##########################.
Basically all a thief has to do is look for ###########.
With regards to blocking a ##### signal, it can be done in three seconds. Place any ################# and it is rendered useless. I appreciate that your engineers do a very good job at trying to covertly install the system, but they cannot ############ in this way, it is just not possible!
With all due respect 'I think' you will find that the GPS is only used to position the vehicle i.e. get absolute Lat & Long (or Easting/Northing), there will be another communication medium transmitting this data to your network control center, either FM (dodgy) or GSM. Either way it is easily scrambled. GSM scrambling devices can be purchased off the shelf nowadays.
I am not trying to condemn your product! It really is in my own interest to try and improve security on my vehicles. But if something is blatantly overlooked like the location #########, I find it hard to endorse the product.
Also, it would be relatively easy to make a #########, if not already available. In all honesty, a switched on thief would only have to ############### and he would completely block all signals #########. He would either ######### so no signals got through, or would cause so much multipath (indirect receivable of GPS pseudo range observables) that the position would be too erroneous to use.
There are some fundamentally basic principals to any GPS tracking system, regardless of its application, marine, car, plane etc.
################################################## ################################################## ##############################
Due to the miracles of miniaturisation, ######## can be quite small, but not invisible! Typically these are like ##########################.
Basically all a thief has to do is look for ###########.
With regards to blocking a ##### signal, it can be done in three seconds. Place any ################# and it is rendered useless. I appreciate that your engineers do a very good job at trying to covertly install the system, but they cannot ############ in this way, it is just not possible!
With all due respect 'I think' you will find that the GPS is only used to position the vehicle i.e. get absolute Lat & Long (or Easting/Northing), there will be another communication medium transmitting this data to your network control center, either FM (dodgy) or GSM. Either way it is easily scrambled. GSM scrambling devices can be purchased off the shelf nowadays.
I am not trying to condemn your product! It really is in my own interest to try and improve security on my vehicles. But if something is blatantly overlooked like the location #########, I find it hard to endorse the product.
Also, it would be relatively easy to make a #########, if not already available. In all honesty, a switched on thief would only have to ############### and he would completely block all signals #########. He would either ######### so no signals got through, or would cause so much multipath (indirect receivable of GPS pseudo range observables) that the position would be too erroneous to use.
If we can prove this on a case by case basis then maybe we can try to word a letter and claim back the cost of the subscription...
Would appreciate any thoughts

Cheers,
Mark
Last edited by Marky9074; Oct 14, 2006 at 06:01 AM.
i fit trackers and there all fitted in different places on the same type of car!i think its the main dealers that fit them mainly fit them in the same place sum times with un-trained fitters
the product does work
the product does work
You mention that it is a TRACKER as in the police have got to have the required equipment to pick up the signal. These devices are older technology and to be honest, you should always go for a GPS based tracker now. As these are constantly recording the movement of your vehicle. Depending on you Service level agreement.
Your best option is a tracker unit that has both GPS and Radio frequency signal such as the Tracker Horizon. The downside of having only a GPS based tracker is that if someone puts your car in a container or takes it to the bottom of a car park you are not going to get any signal. Thats one advantage of still using a radio frequency based tracker.
Car Alarms, Immobilisers, Trackers, Remote Starters, Custom Installs, In Car Entertainment - Motorguard Birmingham, Midlands, UK
Car Alarms, Immobilisers, Trackers, Remote Starters, Custom Installs, In Car Entertainment - Motorguard Birmingham, Midlands, UK
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Isle of Sheppey, Kent - FSTi/TTR V6 DSG
Didnt see that people have commented any more on this. When I said 'tracker' I was being generic, but basically I was referring to only ones that have GPS, where the location of said GPS anxillaries IS the failure. As has been mentioned a couple of times elsewhere a GSM/Radio frequency jammer can be got off the shelf nowadays.
Last edited by Marky9074; Dec 9, 2006 at 03:48 PM.
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From: Tellins, Home of Super Leagues finest, and where a "split" is not all it seems.
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