Sigma M30 - problem disarming with the fob.
04 January 2005, 03:44 PM
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Sigma M30 - problem disarming with the fob.
I'm having an intermittent problem with the standard alarm on my MY00, and I was wondering if anyone else has had the same thing?
Every now and again, I go to disarm the alarm using the remote and nothing happens. Once the alarm has failed to respond once, I can press the button 'til I'm blue in the face but nothing happens. This can happen with the car parked anywhere but it doesn't seem to be RF interference - the places where the problem has occurred have previously been fine and there's no obvious pattern to it.
It gets better, however. I have two remotes, and once the first one has failed to get a response, neither will the other. I know both remotes are working, because if I walk away and come back later (anything from 30 minutes to several hours) either remote will do the job with no problem at all.
A couple of times I've even unlocked the car using the remote, then left it for a few minutes while loading stuff into the boot (so that the immobiliser rearms automatically) and then can't get the alarm to recognise the remote to disable the immobiliser so I can drive off. And on one of those occasions even putting my PIN into the keypad wouldn't get the alarm to cooperate. This morning at 5:20am I unlocked with the remote, loaded the boot, armed it again, went indoors for a few minutes, then when I came back out to drive off to London the damn thing wouldn't unlock again. Ended up using the key and PIN, which isn't the most popular thing with the neighbours at 5:30am...
The first time it happened was actually at the dealer after a service, about 3 weeks ago. Of course when the bloke came out and tried it himself the damn thing worked... so they refused to accept that there was a problem.
Any suggestions? It's booked into the local dealer but the earliest I can get it to them to look at it is likely to be next weekend. It's messed me about 5 or 6 times over Christmas and I'm starting to get paranoid about it.
Every now and again, I go to disarm the alarm using the remote and nothing happens. Once the alarm has failed to respond once, I can press the button 'til I'm blue in the face but nothing happens. This can happen with the car parked anywhere but it doesn't seem to be RF interference - the places where the problem has occurred have previously been fine and there's no obvious pattern to it.
It gets better, however. I have two remotes, and once the first one has failed to get a response, neither will the other. I know both remotes are working, because if I walk away and come back later (anything from 30 minutes to several hours) either remote will do the job with no problem at all.
A couple of times I've even unlocked the car using the remote, then left it for a few minutes while loading stuff into the boot (so that the immobiliser rearms automatically) and then can't get the alarm to recognise the remote to disable the immobiliser so I can drive off. And on one of those occasions even putting my PIN into the keypad wouldn't get the alarm to cooperate. This morning at 5:20am I unlocked with the remote, loaded the boot, armed it again, went indoors for a few minutes, then when I came back out to drive off to London the damn thing wouldn't unlock again. Ended up using the key and PIN, which isn't the most popular thing with the neighbours at 5:30am...
The first time it happened was actually at the dealer after a service, about 3 weeks ago. Of course when the bloke came out and tried it himself the damn thing worked... so they refused to accept that there was a problem.
Any suggestions? It's booked into the local dealer but the earliest I can get it to them to look at it is likely to be next weekend. It's messed me about 5 or 6 times over Christmas and I'm starting to get paranoid about it.
04 January 2005, 04:14 PM
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Sorry to hear that you are having problems.
You sound pretty sure that this is not an RF interference problem, so I won't go into details about that here and I assume that you have tried new batteries in the Radio Keys.
Putting those possibilities aside, the fact that both Radio Keys fail to operate the alarm at the same time tends to suggest that the problem may be with the antennae or receiver within the ECU. The Keypad should always disarm the system, provided the individual PIN code is entered correctly - if the keypad operation is also intermittent then the problem could be that the keypad connector at the alarm unit is not inserted correctly or has worked loose. The antennae connection is also in the keypad connector and a poor connection could explain the problem, particularly at this time of year as the terminals expand and contract.
If the keypad connector looks to be secure, and you are still experiencing the same problem, then it may be the receiver itself within the alarm unit at fault - although it is unusual for it to fail intermitently in this way.
Alarm ECUs are available individually from your dealer (part no: SACC3465). All new alarm units and vehicles from January 2001 will have the "Tetra-Resistant" receiver boards fitted as standard to overcome RF interference problems.
Hope this may be of some help.
SS
You sound pretty sure that this is not an RF interference problem, so I won't go into details about that here and I assume that you have tried new batteries in the Radio Keys.
Putting those possibilities aside, the fact that both Radio Keys fail to operate the alarm at the same time tends to suggest that the problem may be with the antennae or receiver within the ECU. The Keypad should always disarm the system, provided the individual PIN code is entered correctly - if the keypad operation is also intermittent then the problem could be that the keypad connector at the alarm unit is not inserted correctly or has worked loose. The antennae connection is also in the keypad connector and a poor connection could explain the problem, particularly at this time of year as the terminals expand and contract.
If the keypad connector looks to be secure, and you are still experiencing the same problem, then it may be the receiver itself within the alarm unit at fault - although it is unusual for it to fail intermitently in this way.
Alarm ECUs are available individually from your dealer (part no: SACC3465). All new alarm units and vehicles from January 2001 will have the "Tetra-Resistant" receiver boards fitted as standard to overcome RF interference problems.
Hope this may be of some help.
SS
10 January 2005, 06:09 PM
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This is actually a very common problem! Haven't got time now, but if you do a search on this forum, you will find many topics around this problem. I have responded to many of them and you will see what causes it and how to get round it.
10 January 2005, 06:13 PM
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13 January 2005, 03:17 PM
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From the initial post I assumed that we were confident that this was NOT a case of "Radio Lock-Out", so I explored the other possibilities above. However, on the subject of radio lock out….
Radio Lock Out
All alarm systems manufactured for use in the UK in ’99 were required to operate on the frequency of 433MHz. Subsequently, in late 2000, the government allowed the introduction of the “Tetra” radio network for telephone companies/police/fire/ambulance services etc, which was allocated the 420-430MHz bandwidths.
Although not exactly the same frequency, these “Tetra” transmitters are licensed and so are allowed to operate at around 20,000 watts, compared with the alarm systems 0.5 watt radio key (necessary so that your radio keys remain exempt from annual licensing!)
As a result, when you are near a transmitting “Tetra” mast you can get a degree of “bleed over” as their signal isso much stronger and this can swamp the transmission from the radio key. This problem is not exclusive to this system and can occur on any number of manufacturers systems produced prior to 2001.
The receiver boards were redesigned to focus more accurately on the 433.92HHz frequency as soon as this problem became evident, however, systems manufactured before 2001, with the older receiver boards, are not faulty and were NOT considered eligible for warrant , although as a goodwill measure, customers who suffered from “exceptional” radio lock-out (ie lived or worked below a mast) were offered an upgraded receiver board if the vehicle was still within the warranty period.
Avoidance.
There are a few points that should be remembered:
- All vehicles that passed through the import centre from January 2001 are equipped with the latest receiver boards that are "Tetra Resistant" and so should not experience this problem.
- A keypad is fitted to ALL models with the UK standard fit alarm system (from 99 MY) as an emergency override, in the event of loss, damage, flat radio key battery etc. (The keypad also allows the driver to access a number of features and is a complete programming tool for the dealers) and so pushing/recovery of vehicle’s should not be necessary provided you know your override PIN and ow to operate the keypad.
- The keypad can NOT be effected by "Radio Lock-Out", as it is hard wired into the system and does not rely on a radio transmission.
- The keypad allows only THREE PIN attempts and then will "Lock Up" if an incorrect number is entered a third time. This is a secuity feature to prevent random attemts at steeling the vehicle, however, it is also an inconvenience if you are suffering "Radio Lock Out" and enter your PIN incorrectly.
- The PIN number should not be entered too quickly or too slowly - when a digit has been pressed the small LED built into the keypad will illuminate briefly as confirmation and only then should the next digit be entered.
If an incorrect digit is pressed or the delay between entering digits exceeds10 seconds, then the LED above the keypad will flash rapidly and the PIN attempt should be abborted and started again after 30 seconds.
Due to the small size of the keypad some users may find a rubber tipped pencil easier to use. DO NOT use the sharp tip of a ball point pen etc, or press excessively hard on the keypad as this will only damage the membrane and cause a digit to remain pressed, causing a continual incorrect PIN.
My advice is to read the alarm system's instruction manual, practice entering the PIN before you need it and, if you bought the car second hand, ensure you know the correct PIN as this could have been changed by the previous owner and can be changed to one of your own choosing, following the instructions in the alarm booklet.
Ensure your keypad is operational before you need it on a dark night!
I hope this has cleared up a number of points that have been raised and will help to keep eveyone mobile.
SS
Radio Lock Out
All alarm systems manufactured for use in the UK in ’99 were required to operate on the frequency of 433MHz. Subsequently, in late 2000, the government allowed the introduction of the “Tetra” radio network for telephone companies/police/fire/ambulance services etc, which was allocated the 420-430MHz bandwidths.
Although not exactly the same frequency, these “Tetra” transmitters are licensed and so are allowed to operate at around 20,000 watts, compared with the alarm systems 0.5 watt radio key (necessary so that your radio keys remain exempt from annual licensing!)
As a result, when you are near a transmitting “Tetra” mast you can get a degree of “bleed over” as their signal isso much stronger and this can swamp the transmission from the radio key. This problem is not exclusive to this system and can occur on any number of manufacturers systems produced prior to 2001.
The receiver boards were redesigned to focus more accurately on the 433.92HHz frequency as soon as this problem became evident, however, systems manufactured before 2001, with the older receiver boards, are not faulty and were NOT considered eligible for warrant , although as a goodwill measure, customers who suffered from “exceptional” radio lock-out (ie lived or worked below a mast) were offered an upgraded receiver board if the vehicle was still within the warranty period.
Avoidance.
There are a few points that should be remembered:
- All vehicles that passed through the import centre from January 2001 are equipped with the latest receiver boards that are "Tetra Resistant" and so should not experience this problem.
- A keypad is fitted to ALL models with the UK standard fit alarm system (from 99 MY) as an emergency override, in the event of loss, damage, flat radio key battery etc. (The keypad also allows the driver to access a number of features and is a complete programming tool for the dealers) and so pushing/recovery of vehicle’s should not be necessary provided you know your override PIN and ow to operate the keypad.
- The keypad can NOT be effected by "Radio Lock-Out", as it is hard wired into the system and does not rely on a radio transmission.
- The keypad allows only THREE PIN attempts and then will "Lock Up" if an incorrect number is entered a third time. This is a secuity feature to prevent random attemts at steeling the vehicle, however, it is also an inconvenience if you are suffering "Radio Lock Out" and enter your PIN incorrectly.
- The PIN number should not be entered too quickly or too slowly - when a digit has been pressed the small LED built into the keypad will illuminate briefly as confirmation and only then should the next digit be entered.
If an incorrect digit is pressed or the delay between entering digits exceeds10 seconds, then the LED above the keypad will flash rapidly and the PIN attempt should be abborted and started again after 30 seconds.
Due to the small size of the keypad some users may find a rubber tipped pencil easier to use. DO NOT use the sharp tip of a ball point pen etc, or press excessively hard on the keypad as this will only damage the membrane and cause a digit to remain pressed, causing a continual incorrect PIN.
My advice is to read the alarm system's instruction manual, practice entering the PIN before you need it and, if you bought the car second hand, ensure you know the correct PIN as this could have been changed by the previous owner and can be changed to one of your own choosing, following the instructions in the alarm booklet.
Ensure your keypad is operational before you need it on a dark night!
I hope this has cleared up a number of points that have been raised and will help to keep eveyone mobile.
SS
13 January 2005, 03:22 PM
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By the way, for those of you that do not have a copy of the Operating Instructions these can be found at
http://www.subaru-impreza.org/subaru...pic.php?t=2476
SS
http://www.subaru-impreza.org/subaru...pic.php?t=2476
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