AWD

Does anyone know whether these things are legal in the UK?

I know that you can buy them here as I have seen them advertised but if you fit one and it ends up giving a shock to a thief, even though it will only scare him and not kill him, could you be prosecuted for assault?

I'd love to have some sort of proper deterrant to the hordes of theiving b***ards out there but I don't want to end up in the slammer for it....

Any thoughts/info?

AWD

AWD

I've read the posting a few months ago whech talked about the AutoTaser and seen the website (http://www.spytech-uk.com) but I'm still not convinced about the way the law actally views it.

Does anyone actually have one of these? If so has it ever gone off?

I wonder whether insurance would pay for the cleaning costs of un-soiling your car seats after a thief had been zapped.

DavidRB

Do some searches for the AutoTaser, it's been discussed before. There's no way it's dangerous, it's more of a "surprise" shock than a "killer" shock (think of the legal implications if it could maim or kill).

It's probably not much more dangerous than the Electric Chair machines that you see in the arcades. All it takes is a thief with a pair of washing-up gloves...

Dippy

Be careful, any electric shock which causes involuntary muscle action can kill. It depends on the person, heart condition etc. This device is unlikely to kill, but there IS a risk!

However if you put a warning sticker in the window which reads something like "This car is protected by potentially lethal electric shock-inducing equipment", and the equipment in question can only be discharged on someone who has broken into the car, then I can't see that you'd be in any danger from the law.

After all, if a toerag breaks into a substation and dies whilst climbing on a transformer, the inquest usually brings a verdict of "by misadventure" or "serves the little sh*t right!"

sgould

By placing a sticker saying:
"This car is protected by potentially lethal electric shock-inducing equipment"...
You are only admitting that you know about the problem and can still cause you problems.
If the theif was to get a shock and suddenly step back into a moving car (for example) you would be in serious trouble.
This is the problem with the law. If you try to protect yourself, your screwed.
It is a simmilar device to the smoke deterent (your car fills with smoke when it is broken into) this is not allowed as the thief could get injured due to lack of visability. (Isn't that stupid - ****ing thieves).

AWD

At least it hasn't got to the levels that it is like in America. I've heard stories of thieves breaking into houses, injuring themselves in the house and then successfully suing the home owner for having an unsafe house.

i.e. Even if you're the sole occupant of a house and there are some unsafe things in it you can get sued if some tosser breaks in and injures himself.

Coming back to the AutoTazer - I wouldn't want to be in a situation where some elderly thief gets a shock form the car (or a younger one with a heart condition) and then gets seriously injured or killed by a side effect of the shock. I wouldn't want to be involved in the test case in which these gizmos get banned. They sound great for getting our own back on the thieving buggers out there but it is a risk on our part as well.

Screwed if you protect your car - if they can't get the car they'll vandalise it or set fire to it.

Screwed if you don't....

Me... cynical.... naaah ;-)

DavidRB

I think it is dodgy is because if the emergency services need to move a vehicle, they don't take too kindly to being zapped in the process.

Sadly, the legal system in the West is moving towards entirely removing personal responsibility. If <I>anything</I> bad happens to you, it isn't your fault and you can sue.

Kill your pet dog by putting it in the microwave to dry? Sue the manufacturer for not telling you not to do it.
Scald yourself when you spill coffee in your lap? Sue the company that sold you the coffee for not warning you it might be hot.

I still think my favourite deterrant was the sticker that read something like
"Protected by CS Gas. I get fined, you go blind."




[This message has been edited by DavidRB (edited 07 September 2000).]

Stuart H

The AUTO TASER is perfectly legal because it is <B>not</B> designed as a weapon but is designed and marketed as a car security device. It therefore does not fit within the definition of a weapon and consequently does not fall within the prohibition of the Firearms Act 1968 Section 5(1)(b).

The device itself outputs 0.5 joules per impulse at 50000 volts and 6 watts of energy for half a second. The output power of the Auto-Tazer is about equal to that of a Christmas tree light (6 watts) even though the output is 50000v the maximum average power output is 6 watts.

<B>Respiratory failure due to nervous inhibitions or damage to the nervous system:</B> The TASER does not produce enough power to damage nerve tissue. It simply produces electrical signals confusing the nervous system by overloading the nerve fibers with meaningless signals. No deaths of this nature have been reported or have been postulated or published by any medical authority.

<B>Skin and flesh burns:</B> A tremendous amount of heat generated by high power currents would have to occur for this type of burn. The nine-volt batteries of an AUTO TASER do not produce enough power to cause any more than perhaps slightest of surface burns. Testing in hospital settings has shown that the TASER does not to cause burns.

<B>Heart Failure:</B> Dr. Robert Stratbucker performed tests by applying the TASER-Wave pulsed wave form directly to the cardiac tissue via an intracardiac electrode and found "no effect on cardiac rhythm or pumping." He also tested the pulsed waveform for interference with cardiac pacemakers. Dr. Stratbucker found "only when the shocks were delivered directly to the pacer itself did erratic pacing occur. Following the termination of the shocks, the rhythm returned promptly to pre-shock regularity." The designs of modern pacemakers withstand the pulses of electrical defibrillators that are several hundred times stronger than TASER pulses. Tests at the Cordis Medical Lab in Florida have confirmed this.

Dr. Stratbucker reconfirms his earlier findings on electrical emissions from stun pulse generators, delivered to the body surface in the recommended manner do not cause serious cardiac rhythm abnormalities in the otherwise healthy adult heart. "This study investigated electrical outputs equivalent to 400% the capacitance and 300% the battery voltage of the standard AUTO TASER, an adequate margin of safety appears to exist."

Someone will no doubt correct me if my electrical theory is wrong (its been quite a while since I did A-Level Physics). I have seen one of these things in action and I can assure you they work.

Sorry this is such heavy reading, hope it helps.

[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 08 September 2000).]

sunilp

great but didnt autocar or someone report in a group test that this device was removed in failry quick time without the need to get sizzled?...sure i read it on here or 22B

Sunil

AWD

I heard that as well. It was removed fairly quickly by cutting the steering wheel (I assume while wearing some sort of rubber gloves).

harryh

If this device doesn't cause respiratory failure, damage to the nervous system, burns or heart failure then can I just ask "What bloody use is it?"

Mr Leigh

I bit odggne once, for a jokkkke of cccourse. No ill effeccccts.

[This message has been edited by Mr Leigh (edited 11 September 2000).]

Hoppy

I've got one of these things - bought on impulse (ha ha!) at a show. I've yet to use it for real as I live in a fairly safe area - famous last words - but I've just printed out this thread for future reference/defense!

It's frankly rather a crude device and not brilliantly made. You clip it to your steering wheel with a crude key lock and the wheel then depreses the safety switch and it's ready to be armed by remote.

In my view it's nothing more than a novelty deterrent. As has been said above it can cause no real harm and nothing more than a pair of rubber gloves takes any sting right out of it.

But, it does look very scary when it goes off in the dark! And any unsuspecting casual thief would run a mile. I handle it very gingerly and worry about what I would do if the remote control failed when I wanted to remove it!

However, it is certainly no defense against a serious crim and I have another doubt, too. Might it actually INCITE damage to your car? I don't know how these guy's minds work but if a thief saw one with its warning light flashing at him, instead of passing by might he not decide to give all your body panels a kicking just to get even?

I think the best £200 quid I've spent on security was for a Barrier Deadlock. Very secure and so quick and easy to use.

Hoppy

RonaldoH

I supidly grabbed one of these at a show last year. And it b****y hurt bad. I got a wicked pain in my bicep and down my neck. It also made me feel sick.

The electric shock jumps from the tazer onto you and it is a proper shock.

They are legal evidentally and they do work. You get a remote i think to turn it off but lets just say that forgetting its 'armed'.

Ouch

Triggaaar

Ronaldo,
In the interest of providing an answer on the legal side of these things, could you sue the people who deployed this thing at a show, and publish the restults.
Cheers

AWD

Great marketing technique - electrocute your potential customers.

Doh !!

jbryant

If I was a low-life car thief and one of these things gave me an electric shock, if I couldn't get the thing off the wheel I must say I'd be somewhat angry towards the car afterwards. Bang, tinkle, bang, scratch, thud, etc.
No way I'd put one on my car. Surely a casual thief would be just as deterred with a full disklock and a Cat1?
Joolz

AWD

Disklok's are more secure as well. Cutting the steering wheel will not remove a disklok - it will remove an AutoTazer however.

ChrisB

I remember reading about a demo of these things at a show once.

Apparently, by the end of the day, people were having a competion how long they could hold onto them for.

Can you build up an immunity to electric shocks? Could just be a folk tale I suppose.

Chris.

AWD

You can't build up an immunity to electric shocks, but you can easily avoid them by using rubber gloves and shoes when touching live items (as long as their not too powerful).

I don't recommend trying to build an immunity with any electricity substations whether armed with rubber gloves or not. Otherwise you'll be immune but purely because you're no longer breathing.

DavidRB

It's more of an immunity to the surprise & the fear of being shocked. Then again, some people find static electricity more painful than others, so maybe there is a small amount of "immunity".

"Don't try this at home kids"