Alan-G

Graeme,

Spotted it on SIDC that you have bit of bother with employment law and your employer.

Fab 1 (me wifey is an HR consultant).

If you need help, then give us a shout.

Alan, Jen and the wee one.

Dan 2

iTrader: (2)

I'll let him know Alan if he doesn't already

G.Mac

iTrader: (2)

Any advice would be gatefuly received, shall copy paste the topic on here

Graeme

G.Mac

iTrader: (2)

Right here goes.

I resigned last month due to a no of reasons and my previous employer has deducted training costs from my final payment (£975) as I resigned within two years of completing my training course for my Chief Officer certificate of competancy.
What happened was In december last year I was still at College when I was told they were going to have to bring me back to sea due to staffing problems so I had to cancell my MCA Orals and two medical first aid courses, thus not allowing me to complete the course. At this time I informed HR that I could come back to college on the 21st April for 5 weeks to finnish everything off and it took them over 6 weeks to pass this information on to our Marine Super who then came back saying "No" and could not give me any date when I could complete said course as there were too many staff going to college over the next year. My problem is that they made me sign a training bond before going to college or they would not send me, which I signed as I cannot further my carrer without getting my Chief Officers ticket.

This is what the training bond says




UNDERTAKING TO REPAY EXPENSES INCURRED DURING EXTERNAL TRAINING COURSE

Whereas I, Graeme Mcfarlane, "My address" a member of staff of the Scottish Ministers, employed as a Second officer in the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency, have been allocated a place in relation to a course of study leading to the award of the Certificate of Competancy as Chief Mate at Glasgow College of nautical Studies and whereas Scottish Ministers, as evidenced by the signature to this undertaking, undertake

a. to pay the course fees, including those in respect of examinations, charged by the college in respect of my participation in the said course of study

b. to pay 50% of the costs of any books essential to the course

c. to pay the agreed subsistance costs whilst attending the course

now therefore I, Graeme Mcfarlane hereby undertake as follows :-

1. In the event that while remaining in the employment of Scottish Ministers I voluntarily withdraw from or terminate my said course of of study early without Scottish Ministers prior consent in writing then I shall be liable to make payment to the Scottish Ministers of the amount specified in paragraph 5 herunder.

2. In the event that while remaining in the employment of Scottish Ministers I am dismissed or otherwise compulsorily discharged from my said course of studythen I shall be liable to make payment to the Scottish Ministers of the amount specified in paragraph 5 herunder except that I shall not be so liable in the event that my dismissal or discharge arises out of the discontinuance generally of the course referred to above.

3. In the event that my employment by the Scottish Ministers is terminated whether at my instance or at the instance of the Scottish Ministers of the amount as specified in paragraph 5 herunder except that I shall not be so liable in the event that my said employment is terminated by reason of redundancy.

4. In circumstances where I voluntarily terminate my employment with the Scottish Ministers before the expiration of a period of 2 years after the end of the said course of study then I shall be liable to make repayment to the Scottish Ministers of the amount as specified in paragraph 5 herunder except that the total amount which I may be required to repay shall be reduced by 1/24th part for each calender month after the end of the said course of study during which I remain in the employment of the Scottish Ministers.

5. The amount which I may be required to repay to the Scottish Ministers shall be the total amount which the Scottish Ministers shall have paid to me or on behalf in terms of the second preamble to this undertaking.

6. In the event that my employment by the Scottish Ministers is terminated whether at my instance or at the instance of the Scottish Ministers and any sums that might be repayable to the Scottish Ministers pursuant to this undertaking remain unpaid then such sums may be set off against any pay allowances, pension benefits or other payments due to me

signatures.....


I would have no problem with this if I had finnished the full course but I wasnt allowed to as my employers removed me from the course by bringing me back to sea early.

any advice greatfuly received

Alan-G

Nice one Dan.

Fab 1 is on the case

Fab 1

Hi Graeme

Alan G (hubbie) pointed me to the thread. I hope I can help.

Firstly the terms you signed are as I would have expected. They are there to protect the company who is as they would state 'investing' in their employee. Your previous employer has introduced this as complying with best practice as many employers find that they invest in staff, only to find that once the employee has finished their course paid for by the employer they go elsewhere and the company has lost out on their 'investment'. The terms that you signed were as you could say, a 'safeguard' and detterent to those employees who undertake a course of study to further their education and to ensure their services are retained therefore in the company view 'paying back' what they have invested. In today's market where there is a talent shortfall ensures the skills gap is met, and helps to retain talent for the organisation.

In terms of the money that has been deducted. Unfortunately from what I can read in Clause 5, this is with regards money that has already been paid. Therefore although you had to withdraw from the course, the excess of £900 deducted was in the companies view, money paid to you for course fees/mileage/books etc etc etc.

However as with any terms you have an appeal.

I need you to answer a few quick questions before I can really help,

1. Did your employer inform you how much would be deducted and when before they made the deduction?

2. Did they ask for a repayment agreement?

3. Did you 'work your notice' period?

4. Were you paid your full holiday entitlement?

Once I get the answer's to the above I can advise the best way forward.

Jen

G.Mac

iTrader: (2)

to answer your question

1. I just found out a couple of days ago, I have asked them to provide me with the information as to how they came to that figure

2. No, unless thats part of the contract I signed above

3. Yes

4. We dont get holiday entitlement, it is a strange leave system we work, they say I am going to loose most of my leave entitlement as I was at college so I dont know how much I will be paid.
I have not been informed on how much / when I will be paid my notice ran out last Wednesday.

I cant remember how much rostered leave we get but we work 22 days on 19 days off (on a ship)

Fab 1

Hi GMac

Just to confirm, has the money been deducted? or is it still to be deducted?
and if it was deducted was the first time you realised that money was to be deducted when you went to your bank? or received your wage slip. Before this time there was no notification from HR/Payroll?

What I meant in terms of a repayment agreement was have HR/Payroll suggested a repayment agreement being pay the money at ? per month for ? many months?

With regards holiday entitlement were you employed as part of the Mod or Merchant Navy?

Are you part of a Union?

Finally you mentioned your notice period ran out but you don't know when you will be paid, is your usual payment date expired and nothing was transferred into your bank?

There are a few options that you can explore depending on the answers to the above, mainly these are, appeal against the deduction,
You are entitled to a detailed written explanation as to how the deduction was calculated.
I can't see any agreement in the terms of your study that you sacrifice leave to attend college, this is also an avenue to explore, and if you are sacrificing leave days' plus paying back in excess of £900 gives you additional scope for a case.

Although you have signed an agreement regarding the terms of your study depending on your answers to the above you can also argue unlawful deduction of salary, this in my opinion wouldn't really be substantiated if you were to pursue a claim via tribunal, however it is a good leverage in appeal discussions.

Jen