alter_ego

I have passed several of these in Bellshill / Coatbridge. None of them seem to comply with the signing rules. If anyone's been done post here and I'll give you more info.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

I didn't think 20MPH zones were strictly enforceable?

Does anyone know?

Paul_M

If the speed limit has a green circle like many of these so-called "twenty's plenty" zones are then it's definitely not enforceable.

If it's a red circle, and there are repeater signs every so often (can't remember exact distance) plus the council have went through the proper legislation to apply a different limit, then it could well be enforceable.

H7

Difficult to make them enforceable - I doubt if car speedos are accurate enough at that speed.

alter_ego

>> bluenose172
They are enforceable allright (although not the ones I have referred to in North Lanarkshire).

>> Paul M
1) Correct
2) Repeater signs are not required in a 20 MPH Zone as opposed to a 'normal' 20 MPH Limit where they are (assuming that there are streetlights).

>> H7
If your speedos not that accurate, that's your problem, not theirs.

skyenet

It really seems to **** folk off when I stick to 20mph through these zones (with a very accurate speedo). But the route I take through Bellshill does indeed pass through areas where there are Nurserys, Primary Schools and kids playing so I think it is a good idea. Usually its the folk using them as a short cut to miss out Bellshill's one way system that speed in them. IMHO

The 15mph through Strathy park is enforcebale though, as many folk have found out.

alter_ego

Oh, well. they're 'advisory'. www.northlan.gov.uk/living+here/roads+and+transport/road+safety/twentys+plenty+initiative.html.

More pish from these arseholes in the toytown 'parliament' in Edinburgh.

So we now have two types of 20 MPH zones. Real (enforceable) ones under U.K. law (which there are in Scotland) and unenforceable ones under Scottish guidance.

How is the poor motorist expected to know the difference?

20 MPH speed limits by stealth; how many people know that they're not 'real' speed limits. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Paul_M

This should not be legal IMO - although I'm not disputing whether it actually is. The whole point of repeater signs is that you can always work out the speed of the road at any time - either there's a repeater sign to show you every 200m or so, or else the speed is the default for that road (with streetlights 30, single carriageway 60, dual carriageway/m-way 70).

So you're driving down a street in town with streetlights and there are no signs on any lampposts, you think to yourself "can't remember if I passed a limit sign 5 mins ago" but there's no way to work out whether the limit is 30 or 20!

Suppose that's one way to help replenish the chancellor's coffers since they started painting cameras yellow

IMO 20 MPH limits are a good thing in certain areas, but only if they're properly signed with repeaters. What's the point of making a so-called safe speed zone when they don't make it as visible as possible?

Amanda-Jane

Most of you in the Motherwell area will know that The Loaning is rather long and during the day I always travel at 20mph but in the evenings (after about 9pm) I travel about 30mph as the young kids should be in bed.

There have been several speed traps recently and mostly between 12 noon and 1pm as that is a busy time at the nursery school on the The Loaning. I spoke to one of the traffic guys one day when they were in the nursery and asked them if they could enforce the 20mph but they said they couldn't but were stopping people and advising them that very young children are about and to try to keep below 30mph to avoid a nasty incident.

My son is not too bad when it comes to road sense but if he sees something across the road that he wants he just goes for it, which is a worry but all children are the same I suppose.

I am totally for the 20mph zones and really wish they had the red instead of the green! Maybe if some of you guys had young children you would feel the same!

AJ

alter_ego

>>Paul_M
the speed is the default for that road (with streetlights 30,
Scottish Road Traffic Law, state secret No.1:
There is no default '30' on class 'A' & 'B' roads with street lamps in Scotland (only on class 'C' and unclass).
Law: The Restricted Roads (Classification or Type)(Scotland) Regulations 1985. I haven't found *anyone* who knows this (although ISTR someone on this board did post a comment months ago).

>>Amanda-Jane
I am totally for the 20mph zones and really wish they had the red instead of the green!
Take it up with your councillor; there's nothing to stop them implementing an enforceable (U.K. type 20 MPH Zone) or a traditional 20 MPH limit (also enforceable). But they won't do that because it would cost money. They are not interested in safety. They are only interested in clobbering the motorist.
As to the traffic cops, I am appalled. They have no more right to pull people up for doing more than 20 in one of these zones than if there was no 20 MPH limit sign at all. As I said in my third post on this thread, "20 MPH speed limits by stealth".

sambo sei

well if anybody gets caught speding in a 20's plenty just point out to the cops that prince william got away with 60 in a 20 the other day, so go spend your time taking his license away as 3 times the speed limit sounds like a banning offence to me...

bloody monarchy, get away with **** like that just coz of their surname

</rant>

[Edited by sambo sei - 22/06/2003 00:17:25]

jaf01uk

If I remember correctly the last time I came across it in "The Highway Code" which is the publics interpretation of the law "if you are on a road with steetlamps and no other indication as to speed limit the speed is 30mph" And the vast majority of people do not realise that any other shape or colour of speedlimit signs other than the red circle is advisory ie. roadworks, motorway gantrys and the like,

alter_ego

>>jaf01uk
"if you are on a road with steetlamps and no other indication as to speed limit the speed is 30mph"

No longer so; see: http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 (Scroll down to the bottom of para. 103) * The 30 mph limit applies to all traffic on all roads in England and Wales (only Class C and unclassified roads in Scotland) with street lighting unless signs show otherwise).
I don't know when The Highway Code became aware of this state secret, but the 1999 edition made no reference to the difference in Scotland.

Paul_M

AFAIK the ones on motorway gantries are enforceable as well. Can anyone confirm?

alter_ego

>>Paul_M
AFAIK the ones on motorway gantries are enforceable as well. Can anyone confirm?
AIUI the only place where there are enforceable gantry speed limits in the U.K. is the M25. They have a circle of red lamps around the indicated speed). The regulations do allow them (I think) to be used elsewhere, but they aren't.[/b]

[Edited by alter_ego - 22/06/2003 13:40:42]

Paul_M

Cool... so I can safely ignore those stupid 20MPH "limits" on the M-way in the middle of the night because one lane is closed even though there's no-one working on the road