Kames 2003
14 February 2003, 01:41 PM
#1
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Guys, just getting round to thinking about Kames dates for this year, does anyone have any preferences, suggestions etc. Double header weekends inc. camping and bevy (and pool for Stu's missus), single days, other combined activities ?
---john---
---john---
14 February 2003, 03:11 PM
#2
I've been thinking of sending you an e-mail about this 
As I've managed to get the KH dates once every two months, it would be ideal to have a Kames event in the months between (ie April, June, August, October ?)
I'd suggest either June or August for a double header/camping one.
Other than that, a mix of Saturdays and Sundays and we should keep most people happy
John
As I've managed to get the KH dates once every two months, it would be ideal to have a Kames event in the months between (ie April, June, August, October ?)
I'd suggest either June or August for a double header/camping one.
Other than that, a mix of Saturdays and Sundays and we should keep most people happy
John
14 February 2003, 04:35 PM
#5
John, I agree with John 
I'm happy doing either Saturdays or Sundays. Either way means I can make a weekend of it and take the long route
For the double-header, it would probably be a good idea to set up before we light the barbie and open the tinnies
I'm now first reserve for this Sunday's SS-R meeting at Kames, but I ain't doing a 350-mile round trip on the offchance that someone else doesn't turn up
There's a few in the North West who've expressed an interest in coming up this year, so I'll have to see if I can translate into actual bodies on the day...
[Edited by Miles - 2/15/2003 12:59:28 AM]
I'm happy doing either Saturdays or Sundays. Either way means I can make a weekend of it and take the long route
For the double-header, it would probably be a good idea to set up before we light the barbie and open the tinnies
I'm now first reserve for this Sunday's SS-R meeting at Kames, but I ain't doing a 350-mile round trip on the offchance that someone else doesn't turn up
There's a few in the North West who've expressed an interest in coming up this year, so I'll have to see if I can translate into actual bodies on the day...
[Edited by Miles - 2/15/2003 12:59:28 AM]
14 February 2003, 05:54 PM
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JohnS, tried e-mailing you, has you address changed ?
Doug, I will work around Daves dates.
Once the Muirkirk Dome gets built central heating won't be needed.
The cost has gone up to £25 per head to hire the track, anyone think this is excessive ?
---john---
Doug, I will work around Daves dates.
Once the Muirkirk Dome gets built central heating won't be needed.
The cost has gone up to £25 per head to hire the track, anyone think this is excessive ?
---john---
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14 February 2003, 06:14 PM
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John,
For the track hire to increase by £5 isn't excessive. I'd still say its good value for money. A nice day out is also had by all.
JohnS has moved his job and now works for Shell.
John.J.Stewart@shell.com but you're just better with john@sidc.co.uk
For the track hire to increase by £5 isn't excessive. I'd still say its good value for money. A nice day out is also had by all.
JohnS has moved his job and now works for Shell.
John.J.Stewart@shell.com but you're just better with john@sidc.co.uk
15 February 2003, 12:33 AM
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Thing is guys, you lot will never comit properly, so I can't ask for, either the kitchen to be opened, or to get somone in, 'cause the first thing I'm asked is, 'how many are we catering for' !!
---john---
P.S. It would be a good idea for you two to lay off the Burgers
[Edited by John Stevenson - 2/15/2003 12:22:44 PM]
---john---
P.S. It would be a good idea for you two to lay off the Burgers
[Edited by John Stevenson - 2/15/2003 12:22:44 PM]
15 February 2003, 02:23 PM
#12
The Muirkirk Dome ????
With regards folk not committing themselves, is it practical to say that folk would need to book a particular day via the SIDC shop (or wherever) and that additional spaces will be limited ? This way, we could set the number of places to be enough to cover expenses, such as Stan, and already have a financial commitment from people (though they could still not turn up, but forfeit their 25 quid). Only provide enough spaces as would be needed to cover the day. This way, the people who commit can be sure that their track time won't be cut if more folk turn up on spec.
Part of the problem seems to be that folk monitor the threads on Scoobynet, don't commit because there's no real need to (from their point of view) and say they'll come along. On the day, they wake up, look out the window and don't like the weather and decide to stay in bed, polish their dumpvalves, or whatever. The decision's a no-brainer to them, as in their mind they only said they "might" come along and anyway, they've not paid any money already, so they're not losing out financially either.
This then leaves an event that looked like it was going to be over-subscribed, but when you get there there's only half a dozen cars wanting to go on track. The people who couldn't be arsed turning up have created a hole, but more likely than not, that hole could have been filled by others wo actually wanted to come, but didn't bother actually saying so beforehand as all indications were that it was all booked up.
For me, the commitment's there for definite, but someone who's more local may be more inclined to decide on the day.
As I think on, charge people one rate for booking in advance, and 10 quid more for just turning up on the day, provided there are spaces left.
Ramble over. 10 points to anyone who can understand my point
With regards folk not committing themselves, is it practical to say that folk would need to book a particular day via the SIDC shop (or wherever) and that additional spaces will be limited ? This way, we could set the number of places to be enough to cover expenses, such as Stan, and already have a financial commitment from people (though they could still not turn up, but forfeit their 25 quid). Only provide enough spaces as would be needed to cover the day. This way, the people who commit can be sure that their track time won't be cut if more folk turn up on spec.
Part of the problem seems to be that folk monitor the threads on Scoobynet, don't commit because there's no real need to (from their point of view) and say they'll come along. On the day, they wake up, look out the window and don't like the weather and decide to stay in bed, polish their dumpvalves, or whatever. The decision's a no-brainer to them, as in their mind they only said they "might" come along and anyway, they've not paid any money already, so they're not losing out financially either.
This then leaves an event that looked like it was going to be over-subscribed, but when you get there there's only half a dozen cars wanting to go on track. The people who couldn't be arsed turning up have created a hole, but more likely than not, that hole could have been filled by others wo actually wanted to come, but didn't bother actually saying so beforehand as all indications were that it was all booked up.
For me, the commitment's there for definite, but someone who's more local may be more inclined to decide on the day.
As I think on, charge people one rate for booking in advance, and 10 quid more for just turning up on the day, provided there are spaces left.
Ramble over. 10 points to anyone who can understand my point
15 February 2003, 03:29 PM
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Thats 10 points to me then, makes perfect sense.
Off down to Kames tomorrow with the SS-R club but Elise is getting its long overdue makeover, so will be marshalling for a change.
Iain
Off down to Kames tomorrow with the SS-R club but Elise is getting its long overdue makeover, so will be marshalling for a change.
Iain
15 February 2003, 03:32 PM
#14
John
I am game for a few weekenders down at kames and a few sunday day thrashes, will be at kames tomorrow testing out the secret mods tomorrow and hopefully all is ok befotre final mod gets welded on to rear axle/chassis
Neil
I am game for a few weekenders down at kames
and a few sunday day thrashes, will be at kames tomorrow testing out the secret mods tomorrow and hopefully all is ok befotre final mod gets welded on to rear axle/chassisNeil
15 February 2003, 04:50 PM
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For anyone who hasn't done Kames, take it from me, it's a must !.
I only made one of the days last year due to being offshore when the others were on.
JohnS recommended that I went. I was positive that the drive wouldn't be worth it for the sake of a few laps of a wee sprint track ... wrong !. It was brilliant.
I would actually say that on the right day and if the right bunch turn up, it can be better fun than KH.
The fact that the laps are timed makes it interesting and a bit competetive.
For folks that don't know, the format is three laps of the track (only one car on track at a time).
It's from a standing start. When you cross the finish line, you can see your time displayed before you turn off the track to return to the pits.
Then stick your car in the queue for your next run and have a natter.
IIRC, I managed a 98 sec run which I was quite pleased with but others were much quicker (like John and Tut).
Highly recommended - brilliant fun.
I only made one of the days last year due to being offshore when the others were on.
JohnS recommended that I went. I was positive that the drive wouldn't be worth it for the sake of a few laps of a wee sprint track ... wrong !. It was brilliant.
I would actually say that on the right day and if the right bunch turn up, it can be better fun than KH.
The fact that the laps are timed makes it interesting and a bit competetive.
For folks that don't know, the format is three laps of the track (only one car on track at a time).
It's from a standing start. When you cross the finish line, you can see your time displayed before you turn off the track to return to the pits.
Then stick your car in the queue for your next run and have a natter.
IIRC, I managed a 98 sec run which I was quite pleased with but others were much quicker (like John and Tut
).Highly recommended - brilliant fun.
15 February 2003, 05:20 PM
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Neil, Iain, see you tomorrow.
John are you going?
I am second on ss-r reserve list but need a tyre to fit stnd 99 16' wheel b4 I go on.
I spent today polishing my dump valve so I don't have any excuses!
John are you going?
I am second on ss-r reserve list but need a tyre to fit stnd 99 16' wheel b4 I go on.
I spent today polishing my dump valve so I don't have any excuses!
15 February 2003, 05:55 PM
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Stu, your points are absolutely correct. I'll be limiting the places to a finite amount and charging up front. That way as you say, the cost is covered and if people don't turn up it just means more time for everyone else.
I know the timing makes it quite interesting, but remember this is not a race, the timing is there for your own benefit to pit you against yourself.
The price increase set by East Ayreshire does not include Stans costs, so if we want Stan along there will be a small extra cost. My own personal opinion is that Stan's presence really makes a difference, when you can see your time so accurately. Once you acheive a bit of consistancy round the circuit, the difference between a good set and a bad one is usually 1/100ths of a Second (it's amazing that you can feel if it was good or bad, yet the difference might be 0.1secs). Hand timing is so inaccurate that the margine of error can be 2 secs.
So what do you all think to events being limited to 25 cars at £30 per car to include Stan and his timing gear ?
---john---
I know the timing makes it quite interesting, but remember this is not a race, the timing is there for your own benefit to pit you against yourself.
The price increase set by East Ayreshire does not include Stans costs, so if we want Stan along there will be a small extra cost. My own personal opinion is that Stan's presence really makes a difference, when you can see your time so accurately. Once you acheive a bit of consistancy round the circuit, the difference between a good set and a bad one is usually 1/100ths of a Second (it's amazing that you can feel if it was good or bad, yet the difference might be 0.1secs). Hand timing is so inaccurate that the margine of error can be 2 secs.
So what do you all think to events being limited to 25 cars at £30 per car to include Stan and his timing gear ?
---john---
15 February 2003, 06:33 PM
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I'm afraid any SIDC days at Kames will also have to exclude more 'Exlusive' Impreza's after all we don't want their special paint getting damaged !! 
(P.S. I'm not letting anyone out on a track that thinks a rear seat will make a differene to chassis dynamics)
[Edited by John Stevenson - 2/15/2003 6:33:40 PM]
(P.S. I'm not letting anyone out on a track that thinks a rear seat will make a differene to chassis dynamics)
[Edited by John Stevenson - 2/15/2003 6:33:40 PM]
15 February 2003, 06:51 PM
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PMSL @ John
Ricey
ps - will becoming along for the banter and if required to make the BBQ worth while you guys bring the stuff and I will make the food and change the money for it
Chef Ricey
Ricey
ps - will becoming along for the banter and if required to make the BBQ worth while you guys bring the stuff and I will make the food and change the money for it
Chef Ricey
15 February 2003, 07:38 PM
#22
Thirty quid for a day's fun is still damn good value for money in my book. Heck, I know some ladies who charge alot more than that per hour
Regarding the "real-time chronographic analysis" provided by Stan, (it's NOT timing - as the insurer's wouldn't approve), the key benefit on top of what's already been mentioned is that you get a clear view of how you've improved over the course of a day, and can see instantly the effect of a different line through a corner (or over the grass in some cases - eh, John?).
The other use is to see what your "magic lap" was - based upon your quickest first, middle and last laps - and see if you achieved it in reality Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you do
One idea to attract extra bodies, who may not want to go out on track but would increase the numbers of people wanting food, might be to also organise a show-and-shine competition, where each entrant chips in a fiver that could then be used as prize money, or to buy a small trophy or something.
[Edited by stu200 - 2/15/2003 9:16:06 PM]
Regarding the "real-time chronographic analysis" provided by Stan, (it's NOT timing - as the insurer's wouldn't approve), the key benefit on top of what's already been mentioned is that you get a clear view of how you've improved over the course of a day, and can see instantly the effect of a different line through a corner (or over the grass in some cases - eh, John?).
The other use is to see what your "magic lap" was - based upon your quickest first, middle and last laps - and see if you achieved it in reality
Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you do One idea to attract extra bodies, who may not want to go out on track but would increase the numbers of people wanting food, might be to also organise a show-and-shine competition, where each entrant chips in a fiver that could then be used as prize money, or to buy a small trophy or something.
[Edited by stu200 - 2/15/2003 9:16:06 PM]
16 February 2003, 09:43 PM
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Kames today with ss-r. Cold and very unorganised with no timing.
Plenty of guys abusing their cars doing 'auto tests' earlier but once the cones were away I couldn't check my dif. was working properly!!
John, after today I offer my full support to SIDC/SNet Kames days.
Could also offer full exterior and engine cleaning services if people are interested and I can secure a mains source and water supply. (paid for of course)
I polish a mean dump valve!
[Edited by Dougster. - 2/16/2003 9:44:55 PM]
Cold and very unorganised with no timing.Plenty of guys abusing their cars doing 'auto tests' earlier but once the cones were away I couldn't check my dif. was working properly!!
John, after today I offer my full support to SIDC/SNet Kames days.
Could also offer full exterior and engine cleaning services if people are interested and I can secure a mains source and water supply. (paid for of course)
I polish a mean dump valve!
[Edited by Dougster. - 2/16/2003 9:44:55 PM]
16 February 2003, 10:51 PM
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Dougster
Good to see you all today at Kames. Couldn't belive how cold it was but thankfully I did an Artic Survival course years ago. Never got a chance to see the Autotest as I was marshalling on the the Start line all day until well after 5pm. It sounded and looked entertaining from what I could see. Never seen Kames as busy as today.
I feel we were very organised on the start line as a Car was going off every 120 to 130 seconds. This meant that drivers should have been getting a run at least once an hour. There were no offs or any other hold ups on the track. There were nearly 200 runs. I think that is pretty good considering there were 30 cars booked and turned up.
However that raises a good point that I reckon it would be better limiting the number to around 20 to give people more runs on track and I know the SS-R are looking at reducing the number on the next outing. The SIDC Kames events seem to attract about the right number of entries to ensure a reasonable amount of time on track. Its harder with the SS-R club as there are so many people wanting to take their cars out on track events. No easy Answer I suppose.
I think its a shame that Kames didn't lay on any facilities such as the cafe when they got around £800 for today's event. They would have made a lot more if thy had, plus some warm drinks and food would have gone down nicely. I didn't get the chance to sample the delights of the club BBQ.
[Edited by skyenet - 2/18/2003 9:32:29 AM]
Good to see you all today at Kames. Couldn't belive how cold it was but thankfully I did an Artic Survival course years ago. Never got a chance to see the Autotest as I was marshalling on the the Start line all day until well after 5pm. It sounded and looked entertaining from what I could see. Never seen Kames as busy as today.
I feel we were very organised on the start line as a Car was going off every 120 to 130 seconds. This meant that drivers should have been getting a run at least once an hour. There were no offs or any other hold ups on the track. There were nearly 200 runs. I think that is pretty good considering there were 30 cars booked and turned up.
However that raises a good point that I reckon it would be better limiting the number to around 20 to give people more runs on track and I know the SS-R are looking at reducing the number on the next outing. The SIDC Kames events seem to attract about the right number of entries to ensure a reasonable amount of time on track. Its harder with the SS-R club as there are so many people wanting to take their cars out on track events. No easy Answer I suppose.
I think its a shame that Kames didn't lay on any facilities such as the cafe when they got around £800 for today's event. They would have made a lot more if thy had, plus some warm drinks and food would have gone down nicely. I didn't get the chance to sample the delights of the club BBQ.
[Edited by skyenet - 2/18/2003 9:32:29 AM]
17 February 2003, 10:34 AM
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Glad you all had a nice day yesterday.
Iain, EACC is a car club, not a comercial venture. So getting someone to come and open the Cafe means someone (i.e. Maureen and/or Edgar) to volenteer to do this. Kames is more or less used every weekend from about now till Sept/Oct. These peeps have jobs and lives so I'm sure you will understand the difficulty involved. And besides, has anyone ever asked officially ?
---john---
[Edited by John Stevenson - 2/17/2003 10:45:40 AM]
Iain, EACC is a car club, not a comercial venture. So getting someone to come and open the Cafe means someone (i.e. Maureen and/or Edgar) to volenteer to do this. Kames is more or less used every weekend from about now till Sept/Oct. These peeps have jobs and lives so I'm sure you will understand the difficulty involved. And besides, has anyone ever asked officially ?
---john---
[Edited by John Stevenson - 2/17/2003 10:45:40 AM]
17 February 2003, 03:50 PM
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John
I really don't know the details of whether an official request was put in for the cafe to open. Very hard to ask somebody to do this when you can't gaurantee how many will turn up. As it was there was a great turnout, despite the overcast, freezing day. Certainly can understand somebody giving up their time to open a cafe. I had a good day despite not being on track, and get myself so busy that I never even got hungry. Got a sore arm from waving the flag all day though.
Iain
I really don't know the details of whether an official request was put in for the cafe to open. Very hard to ask somebody to do this when you can't gaurantee how many will turn up. As it was there was a great turnout, despite the overcast, freezing day. Certainly can understand somebody giving up their time to open a cafe. I had a good day despite not being on track, and get myself so busy that I never even got hungry. Got a sore arm from waving the flag all day though.
Iain
17 February 2003, 05:49 PM
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Thanks for the flagging, Iain!
Dougster, it became better after 2pm - there was a plain queue, and after 3pm it was less than 15 cars, so most of people had 5+ runs.
Just too few scoobs there on track, one black and myself, but I cannot drive it yet, so I couldn't show them!
And the guy who was so nice to show me the track in his car has happened to be the scary aircraft pilot we've seen in action one week earlier in Glenrothes!
Sergey
Dougster, it became better after 2pm - there was a plain queue, and after 3pm it was less than 15 cars, so most of people had 5+ runs.
Just too few scoobs there on track, one black and myself, but I cannot drive it yet, so I couldn't show them!
And the guy who was so nice to show me the track in his car has happened to be the scary aircraft pilot we've seen in action one week earlier in Glenrothes!
Sergey