Kingsize K2

Saw Quentin last night banging on about duel fuel cars and was wondering whether this could be done to a Scoob?

Any ideas?? Would it result in a huge power loss (having a 50 litre tank in the boot can't help either )

FYI I am not considering this - just interested!

Flat 4x4

Normally aspirated only ?

RB5-Black

You can get a mod that replaces the fuel tank on some cars for a 50/50 one. If you believe the green people they say you should get no power loss compared to 95 Ron unleaded.

blummin hippys

Scot123

I'm interested in this as well..

As far as I know LPG is way cheaper and has a higher octane rating than petrol ( over 100 I think ), however my concern is does it produce the same energy as petrol?


Scot

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

If search worked you would find some threads in drivetrain which relate to this subject.

It was not clear if anyone had suceeded in converting a scoob yet although someone was trying IIRC.

I don't think the power loss would be significant IMHO.

F

Katana

I'd rather have a NOS powered car.

Kingsize K2

And as we all know, if fuel costs would come done... We might save a few thousand a year - each

RB5-Black

LPG will only be cheaper until people start using it. When there are enough of the population on LPG the goverment would have to put the tax up to cover what it's loss on petrol. It's a catch 22 only the tree huggers think it's better and hippys suck IMHO.

julllie

My husband drives a converted Forester and has nothing but problems with it. From what I understand it suits some vehicles v well but not others. Apparently with the Subaru it does something bad to the tappits and Subaru dealers don't know what to do with these conversions at servicing time.

chiark

No-one that I have spoken to has recommended converting a turbo.

Regarding performance, you may find a slight gain - this stuff is equivalent to over 100 RON!

Nick.

NotoriousREV

Although the octane is higher, octane is not a measure of power. The calorific value of LPG lower than petrol which means you need to burn more of it to make the same amount of power. Fuel consumption is worse on an LPG powered vehicle, and performance is a little "wooly". I have an LPG "powered" Lexus IS200 BTW, and I wouldn't reccommend it

Sieze

I think lpg engines run with approx 10% less power than petrol ones.It does have a higher octaine rating so you can run more boost though on turbo cars. The problem with it (I have heard) is that the exhaust gas temp is much higher (especially on turbo cars) so it puts alot of stress on the c/heads / valves / manifold and turbo.

Are there any Australian turbo LPG users out there?

Pete Croney

I have two customers that has LPG converted turbo Imprezas and one that has a Forester turbo LPG.

Virtually no loss of performance, but virtually no one sells the stuff.

sempers

Guy I sail(ed) with had a gas powered corsa - Ok, not exactly a performance car, but I couldn't detect any real difference between gas / petrol modes. It's ******* cheap... Took him about 6 months to write off the costs, at 40mpgish.

Given the amount of jungle juice the scoob guzzles, it could be good... And for the record, as far as tree hugging goes, I'm the anti-christ

- Mark.

^Qwerty^

Jordens in Hull (scoob dealer) told me that putting lpg on a scooby was a bad idea. They said it would greatly reduce the engine life due to the reduced lubrication properties of LPG compared to petrol.

I have no idea how true this is, but would, I guess by along similiar lines to the 4* and UL problem. Different chemicals, same problem?

BuRR

What was this about the Government giving grants to fit the stuff? Does the Impreza qualify?

NeilS

All the cars that qualify for the grant are listed on this web site http://www.est-powershift.org.uk/reg...rch/quick.html

No Scoobs unfortunately.

IanA

I looked at a gas converted Range-Rover before I got the scoob. Loss of perfomance and mpg tends to occur with cheaper, less well-sorted conversions (this according to dealer). A good quality conversion should give only a slight loss. In terms of availability the same dealer that BP are committed to putting LPG at all of their petrol stations this year.

Neil, do you know where your customers had their cars converted?

Final point to consider, we have been warned of an incident up north where a fire started in a converted Range Rover. The tank bleve-ed (techno-speak for went bang) and blew the roof some distance away. A French firefighter lost his legs in a similar incident last year. Steer clear of DIY conversions!

JayRaj

It was Fifth Gear on Channel 5, not Driven.

NotoriousREV

ALL conversions will give a loss, around 15% increase in consumtion, negligible power loss in the lower rev range up to 10% loss at higher revs. This is simply due to the chemical nature of LPG vs petrol, i.e. the lower calorific value = less energy per litre.

Dave Thornton

I had a LPG Range Rover for 10,000 miles:

FACTS:
No loss in performance
Much smoother and quieter
Oil stayed cleaner
MPG 20% worse
Poor conversion caused problems
Had to plan journey to time fill ups (230 mile range)
Takes longer to fill up (230 miles = 90 litres on a RR)
Sometimes you diverted to a BP station and they had run out

Would I recommend it? Yes, but only with an approved, warranted conversion, and only on a gas guzzler such as a Range Rover.

Eldar

LPG Scooby? There isn't a kit yet, but thats probably demand rather than technical.

LPG has an octane value of 110, so is good for high compression engines. It also has an energy content of around 90% of petrol. Turbo engines can (and are) converted. A proper system will maintain 90% power (Ford manage 100%) and an increase of 10-15% fuel consumption.

There are 2 types of conversion, single point (one injection point and mixer, bit like a single carb) and multi-point, with an injector close to each inlet valve as possible. Avoid single point injection absolutely.

The difficult bit is sorting out the ECU interface so the LPG ECU interfaces properly with the car ECU, and dousn't make the car think it is broken, and go into limp-home mode or wear out the injectors by running them dry.

A conversion, properly done, should cost about £1,500, and reduce fuel costs by 50 to 60%. Insurance isn't normally a problem, if fitted by an LPGA registered converter.

There is a lot of rubbish about engine wear. For cold starts LPG is excellent - it doesn't wash the oil from the bores , so reduces wear. There is no evidence that LPG causes valve or any other wear.

The fuel is pretty easily available, around 35 to 39p/litre. If you are able, you can get your own tank (LPG central heating tank), buy LPG at 17P, add fuel duty, 6p, and VAT and you get around 25p/litre.

I've a BMW 530 V8 thats been on LPG for 50k miles of its 170k mile life, and that does 19mpg on LPG (a better system should give 23 mpg), which is the cost equivalent of around 55mpg. If I want 100% power, switch to petrol. The performance loss of a large, heavy tank in the boot isn't a problem. Weighs about the same as a chubby passenger...

When the WRX arrives I'll look at LPG.


Sorry for the long post

Eldar.

Kingsize K2

Eldar,

If you do go ahead with the conversion, please keep me informed as to whether you think it is worth while/ if you have any problems.

In my experience, Scoob's are major gas gusslers and if I can cut my fuel costs whilst barely affecting the performance, I think it would be £1500 well spent.

Pete C - virtually no loss of performance but hard to find?? So possibly recommended in your experience if more readily avaliable?

GavinP

Pete,

Following on from the post above, do you know who did the LPG conversions ?

Thanks

Gavin

sempers

I think hard to find might depend on where you are in the country... in the W of london area, autogas equipped stations are 10 a penny...

Pete Croney

Hi Gavin

I know that one was doen by a company near Bristol and one in the Netherlands. No company details though.

PGMabley

Might get bigger flameouts with LPG!

Paul

mike_s14

I run a converted 200sx on LPG for the past 20 months and its the best thing I've ever done to save money...

Like been said before there is a slight loss of power, but when running 15psi boost its far smoother than petrol to drive.

I fill up for 26p/ltr in a 80 ltr tank 80% full 16.64 for on average 300 miles... it rocks

Mike

[Edited by mike_s14 - 5/29/2002 1:36:31 PM]

scooby555

I would seriously consider this if the conversion costs where reasonable and the stuff was more readily avavilable.

But as has already been said if more people got into it would the robbing barstewards tax it on par with petrol ?????

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

A lot of installers say that turbos cars cannot be converted. Obviously this is crap, and these installers are not worth talking to. Would it be blatant advertising to ask for reccomendations to be posted by people who have had turbo cars converted who are happy with the result?? After all, if you have problems with it afterwards, it is not a fault of runnng on LPG ( which is cleaner all round ), it is due to a poor installation, or poor equipment, or both. As for the cost, once people start using it the government will go crying, and add super fat prescott tax to it, or smiley teeth blair tax. The LPG tank at the house is the best option if you can do it. However in a few years time, things may change, if enough LPG is used, then petrol will have to get cheaper. LPG is a by-product of the petrol refining process, as is diesel, so will there soon be a surplus of petrol in relation to the others. Til I find someone who can offer a good conversion, ( with tuning possibilties also )I will drive a diesel everyday ( isnt red diesel 20p/ltr , or so ive been told..... ), and save the petrol car for havin fun in.
Soon there will be proper gas injection systems on the market I hope, which will hopefully be the answer weve been looking for.