mark_CTR

Lets get one thing straight! The P1 is an awesome B road-eating monster and I loved it.

Saturday morning arrived and I couldn't wait for lunchtime. So after a brief brush with death (a Toyota Land cruiser had a blow out when it was overtaking me ) my father and I drove up to Reg Vardy's to test drive the P1. The salesman drove it for the first mile or so to show me what it could do. He put his foot down in first and after a slight pause we took off, Jesus all that torque nearly pulled my stomach through my backside. Anyway he pulled up and let me in to the driving seat. Getting out of the car I could hear the four-pot rumble and it sounded awesome. So off I go for a two hour test drive round my favourite B roads. What can I say it was awesome, dispatching bends like they weren't even there? This car made me feel like nothing could unglue me from the road, it made me feel invincible. Even when it started to rain I didn't let off the pace. Went round a roundabout at a ridicules speed it just slid all the way round, big grin As for the huge rear wing I didn't find it intrusive to my driving at all. Now some observations . The gearbox was nowhere near as slick or precise as the CTR's. The driving position was great but it didn't feel that I was sitting any lower than the CTR. The steering rack and feel was excellent but it didn't feel any quicker than the CTR. Brakes were very good but tended to fade a bit (it also had the big disk conversion). Interior looked dated compared to the CTR and it rattled a lot. The engine note from inside the cabin was also disappointing no howling scream like the CTR. So after pulling back into the garage I was on a high and so was my father (after he scraped himself from the side of the car ) I asked what kind of deal he would do me on the CTR so we went inside to talk figures. He said he would give me 15k (which was nice after 7 months of ownership ) for the CTR leaving nine grand finance.

So my father and I climbed back into the CTR had headed off down the road and retraced the route we had taken in the P1. Within 10 mins I knew I wasn’t going to part with the Type R. Why you might ask? Well the P1 is a B rd munching monster, but the CTR isn't that far behind, huge grip levels and great adjustability and nearly as much fun in the twisties as long as you are aware of the limits of FWD. As for performance the P1 was awesome especially 0-60 and the torque oh my god! Now I know it's quicker than the CTR I'm not disputing that for one second. But from 60 to 100 it didn't feel that much quicker than the CTR, maybe because it's the CTR’s engine fills the cabin and your senses, I don't know . But it was nowhere near 9k better car than the CTR not even 5k (second hand I might add). My next car will be a rally bred special, the P1 convinced me of that, the experience stayed with me all weekend. So whether it's a Subaru or an EVO I'll be getting one. But for now and the next two years it's the CTR. I'm over the moon I test drove the P1 it's a legend and I loved it. But it made me appreciate just how good the CTR really is.

Subaru P1

Ride/Handling = 10
Performance = 10
Drivetrian = 7
Brakes = 9
Grin factor = 10

CTR

Ride/Handling = 9
Performance = 9
Drivetrian = 10
Brakes = 10
Grin factor = 10

RB5-Black

The salesman drove it for the first mile or so to show me what it could do


hope it was on a track (cough) there was a big incident in scotland where two doctors were killed by a young salesman

Alpine

I run a crx type R as my main runabout and I know what you mean about the engine noise.. The Honda redlines at 8200 and doesn't really kick in until 5600.. It is nowhere near as fast at the WRX but in terms of sound it's a million dollars...

PS I know the answer to this is to change the backbox on the WRX and this is on my list...

MartinM

I won't tell you I told you so (see your original thread)...but I told you so

EvoRSX

I hoppe it was suitably warmed up first before thrashing the **** off it?????

David_Wallis

You Had the brakes Fade? And it had the big disk conversion

Are you sure it was brake fade?

David

adamp

Just to add the reverse view of this thread, I own a P1 and have done for a year and a half. 4 months ago (due to personal circumstances) I almost had to sell the P1. As a viable alternative I went to drive a CTR.

The Civic is a great car and once you have got used to the 2CV style gear box it's also a great drive. It's quick and very composed on the twisty stuff and once you get the second cam to kick in it really screams. Suffice it to say that I was pretty impressed. I didn't however find it a mad a car as its predecessor, the Integra, but this was actually a good thing as it was an easier car to drive long distances.

I talked numbers etc with the dealer and then... got back into the P1 to drive home. All I can say is that the P1 is leaps and bounds ahead of the CTR and was actually a lot louder too. The car just feels (to me) much more solid, safe and composed. I agree with the brakes being a bit cack, but shouldn't be with the Alcons!

Anyway as I could afford to keep the P1 it didn't become an issue and I would agree that 9 grand is a lot of money over a CTR but then again they seem to be growing on trees at the moment and are not a limited production model, the P1 is.

Cheers

Adam

dan4

Excuse my ignorance if I am incorrect, but isn't drive train the AWD bit of Imprezas?? If so how can you rate a FWD car better than the rally bred system that Subaru uses?!? I haven't driven a CTR, but I have had other performance FWD cars (Clio Williams) and the way the Impreza turns it's power into speed blows it out of the water.

Rich B

I think you've hit the dimishing returns point of car investment!

Your Civic is fantastic value for money at £16K, just a couple of years ago you'd need 22-25K for a car with similar performance. In the real world the extra performance that a P1/STI/EVO x offers isn't that useable.

The thudding mid range launch out of corners is pretty addictive though! To any non petrol head you can't really justify the extra expense in buying anything faster, but you know you really want one!

Civic Type-R, best hot hatch whatever the magazines say!


Rich B

wilf

On the cost point I believe the same point has been made new STi UK vs M3. Or P1 vs 911 - not getting into arguments about varying rates of depreciation is it really worth the extra 30k?

At the end of your day we all buy cars with ours heart not our heads but then again you only live once.

JDMCTR

Didn't think Honda made a CRX Type R.

mark_CTR

Now now lads If you read my review I thought the P1 was amazing, the quickest car I have driven and the most stable and and composed that ate b roads for breakfast. Of cours the P1 is the better drivers car I'm not disputing that for one minute. The point I was trying to get across is that pound for pound in the cold light of day the P1 was not 9k better than the CTR. Two years ago the level of performance the CTR generates would of cost in excess of 20k, so it's one of the performance bargins of lifetime IMHO and a fantastic drive. As for the drive train I meant the gearbox.

P1Fanatic

There is no arguing the CTR is the best performance per pound car out at the moment. Pity it looks like a mini MPV on steroids otherwise it would be great car.

[Edited by P1Fanatic - 27/05/2002 16:40:42]

scoobynutta555

If you put an uprated downpipe like the scoobysport on the P1 (like mine) you will notice a heck of a rise in cabin volume, especially with a full de cat scoobysport Ive never been in a car that made such a loud and lovely noise.

Also thank God i bought my P1 brand new, hate the thought of people thrashing the daylights out of it on every test run.

LG John

I feel exactly the same about the VTS v's UK Turbo - no way is it worth the extra cash to buy more so run. But I don't care, it is better and thats good enough for me I like the diminishing returns theory, seems to apply!

bluto22b

Forgive my ignorance but what is a CRT ? .....Blutes

chiark

Blutes - Honda Civic Type R.

Mate's got one, loves it. Plus gets 30+MPG no matter how hard he tries

Scooby Dooby Blue

Blutes...

Civic TypeR

Paul

SiCotty

Now saving for a P1 or Type-RA. You can make an Impreza Loud, very very load if you want.

Si

Alpine

JDMCTR.. Mine's a Jap import labelled CRX SiR.. I was 'told' the R was for Type R... could be wrong..

hawkeye

You should be able to tell if it is a TYPE R or not by the engine all the type r's i've seen/owned have red cam covers with the R logo on them. I think the SiR was a racing spec version of the si not a type r version there is a difference.



Hawkeye

Alpine

I bow to your superior knowledge... What is the difference? This is a 1.6 putting out between 160 and 170hp depending on who's stats you read / believe..

cheers

hawkeye

The civic vti was a 1.6 twin cam vtec and pushed out 160bhp same engine as used in the vti coupe. The si was a model in it's own right. The r version came I believe with extras in racing (r) form. There was however a Civic type r old shape which pushed out nearly 190bhp from a 1.6 engine. They were imported generally in white. Boy they did fly 0-60 was mid 5's. Not taking anything away from your car it will still be fast and will be a vtec but the type r element is something quite special and reserved for 'r' model vehiles only.


Cheers Hawkeye

Alpine

Cheers Hawkeye..

I think the Honda feels 'nippy' rather than fast.. I just love Honda's reliability, and power delivery on the vtec is fun.. A great run about for keeping the miles off the scoob. Especially on sunny days. Wouldn't mind a power hike to 190hp though...

hawkeye

Alpine,
keep a look out for a civic type r old shape in white if you see one advertised go for a drive in one they really were something special. It's a while since I owned one, if i remember right it nearly revved to 10,000 yep 10,000 bike like revving, that engine noise.

it would be worth the tyre kick just for the experience, they just don't make em like that anymore.

Hawkeye

JDMCTR

You beat me to it Hawkeye, I was gonna post but I was in Uni all morning.

PopeyeP1

Not as good as Rod's Vauxhall Viva Type V. He hires it out for 450 quid a day! Anyone interested give us a shout.
Pops-you're friend

Great~taste~Bloke

lol popeye!