only 340bhp
10 August 2013, 01:39 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: derby
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
only 340bhp
Just had car on the dyno, should it have been ran in 4th rather than 3rd.only made 340.9bhp, was expecting more...
Recent forge rebuild
Sti gearbox conversion
Sti tmic
Decat
Green panel filter
Sti pinks
Sc38 turbo
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Road mapped by francis at rom performance
Recent forge rebuild
Sti gearbox conversion
Sti tmic
Decat
Green panel filter
Sti pinks
Sc38 turbo
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Road mapped by francis at rom performance
Trending Topics
10 August 2013, 02:34 PM
#9
If its a 5 speed box it's usually done in 3rd gear, Who mapped it out of interest,
I find it hard to believe that 550 pinks are holding it back at 340bhp, They are usually good for 380 ish.
I find it hard to believe that 550 pinks are holding it back at 340bhp, They are usually good for 380 ish.
Last edited by The Pink Ninja; 10 August 2013 at 02:35 PM.
10 August 2013, 03:43 PM
#14
Kind of looks laggy to me? Full power at 4500rpm ish? That's only 250rpm less than my s206?
Can't say as I've never seen an sc38 but is that about right? Just curious!
Can't say as I've never seen an sc38 but is that about right? Just curious!
11 August 2013, 09:11 PM
#18
Dan....Are you sure it's an SC38 you have on there? Isn't it a Blouch 18G?
Also, it was mapped on a hot day if i remember rightly and i have to take into account intake and engine temps temps too.
Your injectors aren't maxed out just yet and it is running a bit on the rich side but to be fair at the time that was the right strategy to use from all the DET/knock i was hearing at the time in order to squeeze some meaningful grunt from it.
We get what we can on the day within safety margins which includes how much DET we are getting on the day. I don't like mapping them as lean or running as much ignition timing as i would run on my own car and i cannot control they way you drive your car so within safety margins is the way. It may not be so BHP friendly at the time but at least you can give it death without fear of your motor going pop. You'll find as ambient temps become cooler power will go up anyway. Equally, lots of boost doesn't mean more power either.
I've also told you i'm happy to take another look at the mapping when it's mutually convenient, and now the weather is cooling off a bit, and you've changed your uppipe to an aftermarket pipe after your factory pipe split we might be able to extract a few more ponies and some more torque from it but again it's got to be done safely and once your injectors are properly maxxed out that's it.
I'm not going to map your car to oblivion just to extract the absolute max from it. That's not how it's done and regardless of how well forged the bottom end is too much of everything will kill it.
380bhp from 550cc injectors, maybe with some methanol but on pump gas 99RON not unless you lean them right out a lot further than i'd like on a customers car.
ETA: Just noticed Dan, you've said it was RR'd in 3rd gear when it should have been 4th. As has been stated 3rd gear with a 5spd box, 4th with a 6spd box. You make max power in 4th gear on a 6spd box.
Also, it was mapped on a hot day if i remember rightly and i have to take into account intake and engine temps temps too.
Your injectors aren't maxed out just yet and it is running a bit on the rich side but to be fair at the time that was the right strategy to use from all the DET/knock i was hearing at the time in order to squeeze some meaningful grunt from it.
We get what we can on the day within safety margins which includes how much DET we are getting on the day. I don't like mapping them as lean or running as much ignition timing as i would run on my own car and i cannot control they way you drive your car so within safety margins is the way. It may not be so BHP friendly at the time but at least you can give it death without fear of your motor going pop. You'll find as ambient temps become cooler power will go up anyway. Equally, lots of boost doesn't mean more power either.
I've also told you i'm happy to take another look at the mapping when it's mutually convenient, and now the weather is cooling off a bit, and you've changed your uppipe to an aftermarket pipe after your factory pipe split we might be able to extract a few more ponies and some more torque from it but again it's got to be done safely and once your injectors are properly maxxed out that's it.
I'm not going to map your car to oblivion just to extract the absolute max from it. That's not how it's done and regardless of how well forged the bottom end is too much of everything will kill it.
380bhp from 550cc injectors, maybe with some methanol but on pump gas 99RON not unless you lean them right out a lot further than i'd like on a customers car.
ETA: Just noticed Dan, you've said it was RR'd in 3rd gear when it should have been 4th. As has been stated 3rd gear with a 5spd box, 4th with a 6spd box. You make max power in 4th gear on a 6spd box.
Last edited by scoobiewrx555; 11 August 2013 at 09:44 PM.
12 August 2013, 07:17 AM
#20
pretty certain 550's can be taken to 380bhp on normal fuel without methanol, if not i would be very suprised that every other mapper does this.
The fact of the matter is that power is what you would expect from an SC36, even then a little low.
The fact of the matter is that power is what you would expect from an SC36, even then a little low.
12 August 2013, 08:18 AM
#21
As i've already explained, you would have to lean those injectors right out to a point where i certainly wouldn't feel comfortable running them with my average customer regardless of what timing and boost is mapped.
Your AFR's would be running up to the end at around 11.5AFR at peak power which is great for power and that's how i run my own car and beyond, but because I know the way my customers drive, and quite a few of them do drive their cars like they stole them regularly, and despite the protestations of "i pootle around most of the time and only give it death at the weekends or now and again", i treat everyone the same so i take that into account.
If other tuners are getting those kinds of figures from a set of 550's, good for them, but i won't take the chance and not in the hot weather we've had recently. After a car has been tuned/remapped and a while later it goes pop ....Who gets the blame? The tuner is always the first in line to be finger pointed I see this lots, and as a tuner i won't fall victim to a number chaser. My remaps are safe, run nicely, have good strong pull/make good torque, and not at the expense of your bottom end.
Getting the right balance of boost, timing and fuelling is important and there are a lot of tuned cars out there that DET a lot in the pursuit of the best horsepower. It's not about horsepower it's about the way the car drives, so if you are chasing numbers don't come to me.
When the weather is really hot, whether you're mapping on rollers or on the road, you have to be mindful of temps and DET is plentiful so you map accordingly. The customer was given back a car that on the day was mapped safely, under hot ambient conditions, and what power/torque it made on the day was safe to do so.
Up until the rolling road day the car was deemed by the customer to be plenty quick enough for them and that's still the case i believe, and i was told by the customer that he and his friend couldn't stop laughing for the first ten minutes of driving the car at how quick and how well the car drove, and he was extremely happy up until Saturday.
Put the car on rollers and on the day it's made less than the customer expected to see/hoped for. So up until then the car was great and the customer is very happy, and suddenly after a power run it's sad faces and doom and gloom. If the car was running badly, fair enough, but it isn't.
I think it's fair to say from a tuners point of view that you're all number chasers whether you openly admit it or not and it's up until that point that you suddenly forget how well your car goes when it doesn't meet your number expectations/criteria.
Rolling roads provide you with a guesstimate, they are not verse and chapter, and the difference in results between different rolling roads and even the same ones on the same day is going to be vast. If you want accurate bhp figures stick your engine on an engine dyno, not a rolling road.
Your AFR's would be running up to the end at around 11.5AFR at peak power which is great for power and that's how i run my own car and beyond, but because I know the way my customers drive, and quite a few of them do drive their cars like they stole them regularly, and despite the protestations of "i pootle around most of the time and only give it death at the weekends or now and again", i treat everyone the same so i take that into account.
If other tuners are getting those kinds of figures from a set of 550's, good for them, but i won't take the chance and not in the hot weather we've had recently. After a car has been tuned/remapped and a while later it goes pop ....Who gets the blame? The tuner is always the first in line to be finger pointed I see this lots, and as a tuner i won't fall victim to a number chaser. My remaps are safe, run nicely, have good strong pull/make good torque, and not at the expense of your bottom end.
Getting the right balance of boost, timing and fuelling is important and there are a lot of tuned cars out there that DET a lot in the pursuit of the best horsepower. It's not about horsepower it's about the way the car drives, so if you are chasing numbers don't come to me.
When the weather is really hot, whether you're mapping on rollers or on the road, you have to be mindful of temps and DET is plentiful so you map accordingly. The customer was given back a car that on the day was mapped safely, under hot ambient conditions, and what power/torque it made on the day was safe to do so.
Up until the rolling road day the car was deemed by the customer to be plenty quick enough for them and that's still the case i believe, and i was told by the customer that he and his friend couldn't stop laughing for the first ten minutes of driving the car at how quick and how well the car drove, and he was extremely happy up until Saturday.
Put the car on rollers and on the day it's made less than the customer expected to see/hoped for. So up until then the car was great and the customer is very happy, and suddenly after a power run it's sad faces and doom and gloom. If the car was running badly, fair enough, but it isn't.
I think it's fair to say from a tuners point of view that you're all number chasers whether you openly admit it or not and it's up until that point that you suddenly forget how well your car goes when it doesn't meet your number expectations/criteria.
Rolling roads provide you with a guesstimate, they are not verse and chapter, and the difference in results between different rolling roads and even the same ones on the same day is going to be vast. If you want accurate bhp figures stick your engine on an engine dyno, not a rolling road.
12 August 2013, 08:34 AM
#22
I do understand what you are saying and i am not knocking your work however if someone purchases or has a £1300 turbo capable of much more then surely they want their moneys worth, if they are going to sit at 340bhp then they might as well have just stuck with a standard VF35 which is proven to produce those figures over and over.
12 August 2013, 08:49 AM
#24
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All too common I'm afraid: people get a component that is "capable" of a given figure and grumble when it doesn't happen, but what they fail to consider is that the "capable" rests on all of the right supporting mods being in place e.g. fuel pump, injectors,, intake, exhaust etc... The tuners spend ages finding the optimal combinations, but often the customer comes along and wants one component fitted with other components. Sometimes they get lucky and their combination works, other times it's not so effective
The ambient temps are also critical: turbo cars make less power on hot days; especially if on the top mount inter-warmer!
If the mapper sees DET they're gonna pull back. No good having a car that produces 360bhp ..... once!!! 
If it's a SC360 with sub optimal supporting mods, hot ambient temps and run in the wrong gear then I'd say that's a good result!
The ambient temps are also critical: turbo cars make less power on hot days; especially if on the top mount inter-warmer!
If the mapper sees DET they're gonna pull back. No good having a car that produces 360bhp ..... once!!! If it's a SC360 with sub optimal supporting mods, hot ambient temps and run in the wrong gear then I'd say that's a good result!
12 August 2013, 08:52 AM
#26
All too common I'm afraid: people get a component that is "capable" of a given figure and grumble when it doesn't happen, but what they fail to consider is that the "capable" rests on all of the right supporting mods being in place e.g. fuel pump, injectors,, intake, exhaust etc... The tuners spend ages finding the optimal combinations, but often the customer comes along and wants one component fitted with other components. Sometimes they get lucky and their combination works, other times it's not so effective
The ambient temps are also critical: turbo cars make less power on hot days; especially if on the top mount inter-warmer! If the mapper sees DET they're gonna pull back. No good having a car that produces 360bhp ..... once!!!
If it's a SC360 with sub optimal supporting mods, hot ambient temps and run in the wrong gear then I'd say that's a good result!
The ambient temps are also critical: turbo cars make less power on hot days; especially if on the top mount inter-warmer!
If the mapper sees DET they're gonna pull back. No good having a car that produces 360bhp ..... once!!! If it's a SC360 with sub optimal supporting mods, hot ambient temps and run in the wrong gear then I'd say that's a good result!
12 August 2013, 09:17 AM
#27
My 550's ran 380 on vpower with room to spare. Mapped by the best in the business.
OP if you're really not happy then take the car elsewhere. Im sure your current map is very good and safe but if your not happy then either let Francis have another go or let another proven mapper take a look.
OP if you're really not happy then take the car elsewhere. Im sure your current map is very good and safe but if your not happy then either let Francis have another go or let another proven mapper take a look.
12 August 2013, 09:23 AM
#28
I do understand what you are saying and i am not knocking your work however if someone purchases or has a £1300 turbo capable of much more then surely they want their moneys worth, if they are going to sit at 340bhp then they might as well have just stuck with a standard VF35 which is proven to produce those figures over and over.
Cars mapped in cool/cold weather make great numbers at the time but come the summer, specially a hot one like we've just had, and these cars DET their ***** off, pull a shedload of timing and can run very flat. I often see IAM's down around 10's and 12's, and they don't go back up so easy either. Equally i see a lot of dyno sheets with great power figures but lousy torque.
I make a point to all my customers of saying, and especially in this hot weather too, see how the car runs for the next while, and if it needs tweaking, once the weather has cooled/settled down a bit i'll come up and do it, and i don't charge a penny, and although it doesn't take too long to do, as far as i'm concerned it takes as long as it takes.
I can't be any fairer than that and for the customer it's a win win.
12 August 2013, 09:37 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bagshot
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't disagree with what you say, but on a stinking hot day you wouldn't be making 340bhp from a VF35 regardless of how it's mapped, if it's mapped safely and isn't detting. I already come across enough mapped cars running far too lean and detting far too much, and they don't run nice like that either. Might be great for peak power figures but doesn't do a lot for torque.
Cars mapped in cool/cold weather make great numbers at the time but come the summer, specially a hot one like we've just had, and these cars DET their ***** off, pull a shedload of timing and can run very flat. I often see IAM's down around 10's and 12's, and they don't go back up so easy either. Equally i see a lot of dyno sheets with great power figures but lousy torque.
I make a point to all my customers of saying, and especially in this hot weather too, see how the car runs for the next while, and if it needs tweaking, once the weather has cooled/settled down a bit i'll come up and do it, and i don't charge a penny, and although it doesn't take too long to do, as far as i'm concerned it takes as long as it takes.
I can't be any fairer than that and for the customer it's a win win.
Cars mapped in cool/cold weather make great numbers at the time but come the summer, specially a hot one like we've just had, and these cars DET their ***** off, pull a shedload of timing and can run very flat. I often see IAM's down around 10's and 12's, and they don't go back up so easy either. Equally i see a lot of dyno sheets with great power figures but lousy torque.
I make a point to all my customers of saying, and especially in this hot weather too, see how the car runs for the next while, and if it needs tweaking, once the weather has cooled/settled down a bit i'll come up and do it, and i don't charge a penny, and although it doesn't take too long to do, as far as i'm concerned it takes as long as it takes.
I can't be any fairer than that and for the customer it's a win win.
12 August 2013, 09:41 AM
#30
Simon is a good tuner, no doubt whasoever. Those are pretty good numbers. It would be interesting to know what injector duty you were running to get there. Your's is an STi, AVCS helps, no TGV's, TMIC or FMIC?, Induction or flat panel?, and RR'd in November in 4th Gear. Peak torque at 4200-4300rpm and peak power at 6300rpm. Very nice indeed, Simon has done you proud.