MorayMackenzie

Adam,

You could always send what you know to people written on the back of a stamp...

Moray

robski

Ok, so our new monsta deal is broquet for £99

but is there any scientific proof yet!?

I seem to remember someone knowledgeable (Pete Croney?) was going to look into it, was it ever done, reported on?

robski

RonaldoH

The use of metals as catalysts to promote chemical reactions is not new. A number of different tin-alloy driven electrocatalysis reactions, in fuel hydrocarbon mixtures, which benefit combustion performance as well as fuel stability, are documented as far back as the 1930's and '40's.

Broquet international limited : "Therefore whether you have a car, truck or ocean-going vessel, the Broquet is guaranteed to be able to help cut your fuel costs and emissions - or your purchase price will be refunded"

So, if they are that confident in the product, and it dont work-Then SDB would simplt not sell em. I remember him looking into these a long long time ago.

R

AJC

If you go to the Broquet website they're selling this for £72.85 plus £2p&p. I have to admit it's not my bag but surely the ScoobyShop should be negotiating a discount not a monster markup?

Andrew

robski

Ronnie,

Im not a chemist, I freely admit to that, but even someone as simple as I, knows that there are extremes to anything.

Im sure that if you added some lead lumps to your fuel tank it would help something in your engine, valve seats?
wouldnt help your cat I admit.

But, is there any proof that for the scoob it helps by a measurable amount?

This surely isnt that hard to manage to prove?

Si, maybe you have something to comment?

I would like to see someone who can tune the scoob engine well comment on this, for example Bob Rawle, has a tuned scoob, been able to have the tuning pushed further after adding broquet? or has knock been proven to be lowered on an extremely tuned engine?

On the money back point, do you have to return the goods? if so, how you gonna get em out of your fuel tank? do you have to prove that you got no benefit?

robski

David Lock

Andrew,

Impreza Turbos require 2 number 8 pellet in-tank units which is 2 x £72.85 = £145.70 list price. I understand the ScoobyShop price is £99.00 for the pack which is a very substantial discount. David.

mutant_matt

I agree with Robski - we'd like to see some independent proof from someone who counts.... If this was forthcoming then I think a whole loads of Scoobynetters would snap 'em up....

Matt

mutant_matt

Last post didn't quite work so will try again...:

And now it has - Doh!!!! ..SNIP...


[This message has been edited by mutant_matt (edited 12 April 2001).]

Adam M

To my knowledge, Bob Rawle has tested these things. Mail me offline and I will tell you what I know.

Just to add,

I two eight element broquets in my MY96 wrx, and since buying the 22B, have another two in that too.

PeterJ

The word is that Prodrive put these as standard on P1's. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

ex-webby

Hi Chaps

We haven't done any scientific testing ourselves, but when you start looking into it (as we did before offering it the community) there are so many highly respected companies that say good things about it that we thought "if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us"..

Petrol costs so much money, that £100 is not a big deal when you look at your costs for the year, so I have to say.. I'm using this special promotion to get some for myself to just "give it a go".

It's a substantial saving, and a tiny amount of money in comparison to the amount I spend on fuel a year, and it sounds like it will pay for itself and make my engine safer also.

Cheers

Simon

RussP

I've got two in my Sti5 and it hasn't melted any pistons yet!

So i'm happy.

Seriously, it definitely feels smoother and maybe gives a tad more mpg, but that may be the engine loosening up.

RonaldoH

Well, i put Jelly Tots into my tank this morning and now my car produces smoke of varying colours, similar to a rainbow.

Fat Boy

Re P1 - Yes,I've heard that it has the brocquets, which is why in the owner's manual it tells you that you can run on 95 if you want, not that I would sully my baby with that muck .

Triggaaar

LOL Ronaldo

Since I'm posting:
David always seems to be increadibly helpful re broquets, and offers a money back gaurantee (fishing line could be used to get them out). I've been wanting to give these a try when I've been able to get the cash (£99 seems difficult to refuse).

But like so many others, I can't see why they cannot be proved to improve efficiency - stick an engine on a bench - run it in controlled conditions - see how much fuel it uses - repeat, adding and removing broquets to give enough results to remove random element. If it really works, every new car in the country should be fitted with them.

z80

Sorry guys,

I simply couldn't resist & have gone ahead and bought some at the monster deal price.

I'm particularly mad though as I 've got a P1 & it's supposed to have the stuff in it anyway. Apparently too much Broquet isn't possible & benefits are still to be had.

I'll keep you closely informed of any differences that are noted. (If any body is interested).

Cheers,

z80

chiark

I'm with trigaar on this one...

Simon, why not send out some "real" ones, and some "placebo" ones that just look like the real things.

I do wonder how much of this is psychological - rounding down the amount of fuel put in rather than up, feeling the car idling smoother.

I'm a natural born cynic, and may still give 'em a shot, but why can't we have empirical conclusive proof that they work?

I also thought that a catalyst had to be present at the point of a reaction taking place, not 6 feet away floating in a container!

Someone, please, put me out of my misery and tell my why this works.

Nick.

David Lock

Hi Guys & Gals,
Broquet always causes a debate! I am reading this at 8.22 pm, it's my daughter's birthday (15) so forgive me if I don't post a long and detailed reply. I promise that this weekend I will reply personally to you answering all the points raised. Is that OK?
However let me say quickly that it is wrong to assume that Broquet hasn't been tested and, of course, it has been around for 60 years so it's not some new "wonder" product - just an old technology that offers very real benefits today. Have a nice weekend folks. David.

vmax

I havr found some information which you all might find usefull.

Adam M

The pellets are the size of pebbles, ans are trapped in a metal gauze. They dont dissolve, and too big to block anything.

There is no way thet will affect any warranty, once in you could never tell they were there unless you were looking for them and even then it would be difficult.

MarkF

I recently fitted Broquets to my 93 WRX. I had been using Millers octane booster but heard a few good reports about Broquets and thought "Why not?"
The first run after fitting them was unbelievable. The engine was so much smoother than previously. Even using 2 bottles of Millers it never felt as smooth. Having had them in for a few weeks now I can also say that the fuel consumption has decreased slightly. Used to get 300kms out of a 50l tank but now get about 330. If you read the Broquet information they reccon that another Scooby user got about 9% increase in economy. Added to this if Prodrive add them as standard to P1's, can they really bad? I don't think so. A tuning company with their experience isn't going to do something that costs them money just for the hell of it.

vmax

Do Prodrive actually use them in the P1? Or is this another wives tale ?

MarkF

vmax, yes they do.

PeterPerfect

I read somewhere on this bbs that IM fit these to all UK cars.
Anyone like to confirm ?

Bob Rawle

I have used Broquet in both Imprezas that I have owned. I too got curious about what it was claimed to do and invested really to find out. At the time I had Sti 2 Wagon running with Link ecu (later Motec), HKS Hiper, Scoobysport downpipe, HKS induction kit etc. I was really interested in seeing if I could use Broquet to increase fuel quality enough so that I could run more ignition advance. The reduction in ron rating from 98 to 97 (SUL) had necessitated my retarding my timing by several degrees and I was keen to get it back.

I installed the Broquet with a virtually empty tank for safety reasons, drove to the nearest garage for SUL (round trip of 20 miles or so). Driving back I started to notice differences, idle quality improved, engine ran more smoothly, car felt more willing to pull and more flexible. Over the next few weeks I monitored fuel consumption and did get an improvement, not by the 9% some people have mentioned but I certainly got 5%, bear in mind that this is over my "normal" terrain where I use the performance of the car to the full as well as cruise. I found that I had to reduce the fuel map values in order to maintain my optimum AFR. Timing ... well I tried to advance it up, the engine had a higher compression ratio than a saloon so as soon as I pushed it the big red light went off, it was purely down to charge temperature increase due to the boost I was running (1.4 bar) and the small early intercooler. Then I started to use booster as well and was able to make small increases in timing but the charge temperature of the small intercooler was still the limiting factor. I covered some 35000 miles with Broquet in the tank with that car.

I now own a STi 5 four door running with programmable engine management and other goodies. I installed Broquet two weeks ago.

I had already mapped the ecu with as much advance as I reasonably could and was again interested in wether Broquet would make a difference to this car. Same installation process, drive to the same garage after and got exactly the same improvement in all areas on the way back home, car was very much smoother and really felt willing to go. I had already taken a dyno curve of the "before" and waited a week to get the "after". I did the comparison with exactly the same map in the ecu. I was hoping for a power improvement ... I didn't actually get that, what I did get was a very quiet Knocklink, before fitting I would get a couple of steady lights up above 5800 rpm, now nothing. So no increase in power but, I felt the opportunity to raise the anti by increasing timing. Since then I have changed the turbo again and so maybe this is not a fair statement but I have been able to increase timing since then and the car is now producing some 20 odd comparitive horsepower more than before (lots more torque though). As I say, I am not sure how much of that is down to the turbo change but what I can say is that I certainly was able to advance it up by 1-2 degrees.

So sorry for the epistle but having spent quite a lot of time and effort in attempting to determine its benefits I though that some of you may find this post of interest.

My conclusion is ... engine runs more smoothly, fuel consumption improves in like for like driving situations, performance may be increased if programmable management is used. In short its a benefit and worth the money IMHO.

BTW, Broquet in P1's ? the P1 is quoted as having 276 bhp at 6500 rpm and 259 ft lb at 4000 rpm "using 100 ron fuel". Given the best UK fuel is 97 ron and I have established that Broquet will allow an engine to run more optimally then I would say its a fair bet, Subaru quote "only" 3 degrees of det retard when running on 95 ron, that means yes it dets but that the ecu compensates, given my own experience of mapping for 95 ron use then normaly going from 97 to 95 ron means approx 4 degree retardation is required, as the car is obviously optimised for 100 ron then something like Broquet must be used to achieve the desired result in the UK. Just my opinion.

Bob

russell hayward

Bob,where have the P1 power figures been quoted using 100 RON fuel ?

I seem to remember a post from Mike Wood, I think, stating the ECU had been mapped using UK 97 RON fuel that had been shipped over to Japan from the UK.

Either that or my memory has gone on the blink !

Ta

Russ

bugs bunny

At the recent Doncaster show a company were selling 'similar' products with a claim of 4 ron increase for £42 (for a 2 litre engine). They had an insurance policy against engine damage and a few interesting letters of recommendation. Company was Spitfire Multi-Spark of Horsham.

SDB

Bob

Thank you for that info. That is great news.

So this presumably means that my Type R will be "safer" on it?

I'm not bothered about performance improvements, I only really care about engine safety, and I guess the fuel economy will be a nice bonus.

Thanks for the reassurance.

Cheers

Simon

David Lock

Bugs,
With respect the product that you describe as "similar" is, as I understand it, a claimed spark improver which claims to generate 5 sparks from one. I know no more about it except that it has nothing to do with Broquet and in no way can it be described as a "similar". How it manages to increase the RON rating is unclear to me.

Bob/Simon,
Thanks for your efforts Bob and I will e-mail you separately as I have a number of questions, especially about power improvements. Note even a 5% fuel saving over 35,000 means over £300 saved for a say 22 mpg car - paying for Broquet 3 times over.
Simon, Yes I really believe Broquet will help protect your engine because the combustion process is smoother - so less stress. More complete combustion means less "muck" left in the combustion zone and oil which stays cleaner for longer.

Trigaar - if you are reading please let me have your e-mail address as your profile one doesn't seem to work.

Cheers, David

Markus

Well, I've been toying with the idea of dropping Broquet in the blackbeast for a while, and with the current monster deal, it'd be silly not to try. Hey, I'll attach fishing line to the gauzes so if I do have any problems I'll just fish them out, sorted.