Oliver T.

Having owned a p1 now for 14 weeks,for the last 6 of them weeks it has been at the dealers.To cut a long story short,the car is having a new engine fitted under warranty,as the other engine blew up.Now 6 weeks on I still haven't got the car back,and I'm totally pissed off with the whole situation.I've got to the point now that as soon as I get the car back I'm considering selling it staight away.Before I got the p1 I had an evo6 and before that an m3 evo.Both mitsubishi and bmw were excellent towards customer service,but as for subaru they are totally and utterly crap.Come back mitsubishi/bmw all is forgiven.

Cheers A very pissed off p1 owner.

P.S Sorry for the moan but I had to get it off my chest.

Yorkie

Stories like this make me realise why Subaru are no longer the top of the JD Power listing. They are also lagging behind in the World Rally Championship and performance of the new WRX is behind the previous Turbo model. The term "resting on their laurels" springs to mind.[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Yorkie

KenG

Sorry to hear that Oliver. What did they say was the delay?

A friend of mine had an engine let go on his M3 and it took just short of 4 months to get fixed. The unique bits for limited manufacturing run performace cars are probably much harder to get.

Ken

Oliver T.

Ken they couldn't source the parts in this country,so they had to order them from Japan.These took a month to arrive,or so I'm led to believe.Then they've been working on it in between other jobs,instead of working on it constantly until it was done.

Cheers.

johnfelstead

A month for parts? Thats a bit naughty. Doesnt sound right to me.

I think once the car is sorted you should keep the car and find another dealer, the dealer has the bigest impact on your owning pleasure or otherwise in these circumstances IMHO.

Get some fun out of the car, it would be a shame to just have bad memories of a superb piece of kit.

KenG

People think it is a bit strange that I buy my Scoobies from a dealer in Richmond when I live in Leeds. Its all down to the quality of service for me. Unfortunately less caring dealers are not helping the Subaru brand name.

I hope you get it resolved soon and follow John's advice by finding a dealer who cares about customer service. We must meet up when you get the beast back.

Ken

Oliver T.

Ken the dealer in question was spot on when I bought the car from them.In fact I would have definately bought another car from them.It's only now that this has happened that my opinion has changed.If I decide to keep the car(that is if I ever get it back)sounds good to me about meeting up.

Hos

iTrader: (1)

I agree with what John Felstead said about the dealer.

I think my dealer is excellent and they fall over backwards for me. Makes me want to buy a subaru next car round just so i still have the same level of service.

I've been stuck twice on a friday afternoon just before they go home and they have managed to squeeze me in and sort any problems i've had out.

I seriously hope the new shape at the end of the year is something special

Johnny Bence

Oliver - as a fellow P1 owner I would suggest you give the car a go once you get it back, it really is bloody amazing. Sounds like you need to change your future dealer though! Thats bad luck, and hopefully someone from Subaru is reading your thread and maybe making a few phone calls?

But please don't judge the car on the dealer standards, you'd be missing out on an fantastic car.

Take it easy.
Johnny

DJ140

Have you tried FR Pulleyn, in York? I have received excellent service from them, no complaints at all.

They have sorted out paint, clutch and MAF problems, on my MY00 Turbo.

Dan

Petoir

I went the other way and ditched the P1 for an Evo 6 TME. Subaru's treatment of my P1 and their seeming inability to return my phone calls about why my car had to have three gear boxes in four months drove me round the twist - especially as I had to ponce around in a bottom of the range legacy estate. (I supplied my own cloth hat, pipe and labrador)

They kept replacing 3rd, 4th and 5th gear because of high speed grind on change up.

I offered a fairly simple solution to Subaru.

"Convince me that this gear problem won't return and we're cool, but I don't want it coming back to haunt me out of warranty. If you don't convince me or replace the box completely I'm getting rid for an Evo as soon as you give it back"

Twenty two calls to dealer and IM later, not one single person called me back over a period of eight weeks while the car was off the road. The only response I ever recieved was three people that said "This isn't normally a problem on the P1" Oh really, great, thanks.

Anyway, I got shut as soon as it came back - another reason being that they said they'd respray the apalling front lip chips under warranty. Then I got a bill for £80 because I'd scratched the underside of the lip. All this married to the dire brakes, terminal understeer, cracking pirellis and sh*te interior, a recipe for disaster, all on a car under a year old. They really should have made 500 of those things.

The Evo is simply stunning in every dept, fingers crossed Mitsu, Ralliart and the car will stay as good as they've been over the last six months!

And until that Alfa Romeo guy sorts the front end out I won't be returning to the fold.

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

T'is why my P1 has gone and I too will become an EVO owner (with mods ) soon !

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Double posting

[Edited by Mellow Yellow ! - 5/18/2002 11:46:11 AM]

Chris L

Yorkie

You are very welcome to pop down anytime for ride in MY01 WRX. I guarantee you it is not slower than the old car (in actual fact it is quicker than my old MY00 and handles considerably better )

Chris

[Edited by Chris L - 5/18/2002 12:23:02 PM]

Ex-Bitten Hero

Umm... yes, but your car is hardly standard! If you compare an out-of-the-box MY00 and MY01, the MY00 is a fair chunk faster, courtesy of being 150kgs less lardy. My MY00 PPP will leave any MY01 for dead both in-gear and top-end unless you have around 280bhp...

Interior's nicer though on the MY01 and it looks good with the Morettes.

Cheers
Richard

MTR

Oliver T,
The dealer nor their mechanics caused your engine to 'let go in a VERY BIG way'.

But they will rebuild it properly, when they can get the parts in a usable condition.
If the parts sent are deemed to be not satisfactory, then they have to order new ones, and just have to wait for new bits.
Japan might be 2 minutes away by phone, but is quite a long way, by boat.

The P1 engine is supplied as a complete set of parts not a short or full motor as is the case with other Imprezas, so requires a complete build in the workshop.

I have no idea if they have been leaving your car and doing bits on it now and then, but I know the mechanic working on it, and he will try and get it perfect for you.

I have no doubt that it is frustrating having to wait for your car to be fixed, but surely its at least a comfort to know that the £xxxx repair bill is being paid for by Subaru, not by you.

This uncaring dealer is the same one that has supplied a FOC courtesy car to Stratman after his car was stolen, until he can get sorted out.

As they say there are two side to every story.

You may be completely justified in your dissatisfaction.

Or you may be very lucky that after 'possibly' ragging the sh*t out of your car and it breaking a rod and completely trashing the entire engine, you are getting it fixed for **** all.

How would you have felt if they had tried pulling the 'you have over revved the engine 'scam, and we aint paying.
Its possible by the way, even with a rev limiter. Try accidentaly putting your car into 2nd gear at 100mph.
Or 'we have to send it away for examination with a metalurgist and await his findings'. Results = been thrashed, now you disprove it.

There was a very well publicised case involving a Vauxhall Monteray, were the owner was left with a £8K I think, rebuild to pay for himself, that went on for over 12 months. It made it on to top gear, but I cannot remember what the final outcome was.

I am not trying to defend the dealer, or cast blame on you for the blown engine, but when they agree to fix a VERY costly repair with ABSOLUTELY no questions asked, you should perhaps be a little more grateful.

I would be.

Just a thought.

Cheers MTR

bluto22b

Petior, shame on you young man. I traded a Legacy in for my Forester and I definately do not wear slippers (except in the house) and I do not smoke a pipe (only when I drive the Austin Maxi, 180 bhp mind !). Don't stereotype cars in this way. Do you wear a baseball cap back to front by the way ?......Blutes

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

I have to agree with MTR. You are lucky indeed to get the car fixed with no questions asked. I bet they would have taken a different approach if they knew what a pain in the **** you are.

Lets face it, they're fixing it FOC and we've heard stories of warranty claims being rejected for very trivial things, let alone a P1 engine.

What were you doing when it went bang?

F

wilf

Sorry to hear of your bad experience and IM's poor service.
Give it a go though when the car is returned.

Reading MLR Forum you read similar horror stories and I think alot of Mitsi dealers treat EVO owners badly as well. It seems that franchised dealers don't appreciate the cars or the customer and specialist dealers are the way to go.

Fortunately no probs with my P1 to date. Still grinning every time I drive it.

johnfelstead

i dont think your post is very fair MTR.

The guy bought a very expensive car with Full, 3 year waranty, so he is entitled to expect the car to be repared free and in a timely fashion.

Of course, if parts are supplied faulty that will cause a delay and maybe the dealer isnt to blame for that, but the bottom line is he isnt getting good service having to wait 4 weeks just to get parts that can be used. At the very least IM should have some stock to cover this kind of situation. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to realise that the P1 engine is more likely to suffer failures than a standard UK turbo after all.

It's also unfair of you to start going on about how the guy MAY have ragged the *** off the car.

The P1 is a fabulous car, but it's no use having a fabulous car if half it's life is spent in bits, this isnt a TVR, this is a Subaru.

You should be able to understand the guys frustration, i certainly do. The important thing is that once the car is back on the road, he actually gets to enjoy it. Sometimes changing dealer, even if they were not at fault, can help in that process. It would be a great shame for him to go through the rest of his driving life thinking Subaru's are ****e because he was so disalusioned with the P1 experience.

Get it fixed, change the dealer and enjoy the car, they are fantastic.

Finaly, it's in the interests of the dealer to get the car repaired under waranty, as IM pay them to do that, they are not doing the guy any favours, they are running their business. If there were any iffy issues, IM would send out an IM employed inspector to asses the work and OK it or not. This has got nothing to do with the franchised dealers wants or otherwise. It was exactly the same situation when all the MY97/98 cars were getting piston slap issues, IM sent out technitions at first and then they realised it was a widespread problem and just let the dealers repair the cars without inspection.

Subaru dealers make their living out of doing waranty work, IM get sales because they supply the cars with 2 years extra waranty cover than FHI provided. It's all about business.

Good look with the repair, stick with it and get some fun out of a superb car.

dhorwich

Just think when you eventually get it back you will have a practically brand new engine....

If i were you i would wait till you get it back drive it for a week then make a desicion... i think it might just change your mind....i.e having the p1 back in tip top condition and pulling like a steam train...

Dan

MTR

John Felstead,
I don't mean to sound too antagonistic, but felt that Oliver was being less than realistic about his expectations of the dealer.
And I can empathise with his frustration.

But frustration comes free engines don't.

Face with frustration and a free totally new engine or pay £5K/£6K I know which I would choose.

When the P1 engine parts are delivered the mechanics have to measure the crank/rods then order mains and big end shells to suit the parts delivered.
The crank/rods and shells do not come as a set!!
Additionally the brand new cylinder heads and valves (both sides)have to be built up with the cams and the neccesary shims ordered for the valve buckets.
IM do not supply a complete range of all the sizes of all the shims to the dealer.
Additionally when one of the cylinder blocks that is delivered is found to be damaged, and has to be sent back and a new one sourced from Japan, with its matching pistons as well, it all takes time.

Your quite right that an owner should expect good service, and I think he is recieving good service.
If the dealer that strips the engine can satisfy IM of the validity of the claim then an inspector isn't sent out.
Unless of course IM suspect something.

But either way, if anyone had to take their car back to a dealer with a snapped conrod, and totally trashed engine, it may not be suprising if they then wanted to know what the heck happened, and how.
Resulting in a potentially lengthy period of investigation, before any parts were ordered, if the claim was even agreed.

I wonder if Ford and Vauxhall etc are quite so amenable at paying
to fix blown engines, no questions asked?
Irrespective of how costly. Were NOT talking a crank and a set of shells here.

I also agree that the dealer is paid for doing warranty work on the cars, but did you know they get paid a fixed amount for specified jobs.
If they run into difficulties, they do not get paid extra. So they want to see the back of the car more than anyone.

Bad mouthing a dealer who is attempting to rebuild a complete engine at no cost to the customer, (it was stripped almost as soon as it arrived), and without any reluctance on the part of the dealer or IM at funding a VERY EXPENSIVE claim, is reason to be satisfied in my opinion.

The mechanic can only work on the car if he has the bits to fix it.
Sometimes as customers we would do well to remenber that.

Cheers MTR

johnfelstead

he isnt getting a FREE engine MTR, he paid a lot of money for a car that had a full 3 year waranty, nothing is ever FREE in this world.

He could quite easily have bought an STi V Type R for half the price and recieved virtually the same car, but he chose to pay extra for the P1 so he would have 3 years waranty. I dont think it's unreasonable for him to expect what he paid for.

As to the failure of his engine. Just because it threw a rod doesnt mean it's his fault. When engines fail they can go in hundreds of diferent ways, some result in big end knocking, some throw a rod through the block. You cant predict that.

I dont see why you feel the need to start going into specifics on the parts used in this engine, thats none of your or our business and quite frankly, if i was the owner or dealer reading this, i would be seriously unhappy about the specifics of the engine failure finding their way onto the net.

The main issue is that the guy is unhappy, he is entitled to be based on the time his car is off the road. I just hope once it is repaired he gives the car a chance to show what a superb piece of kit it is, it would be a shame if he doesnt.

scoobynutta555

John

without being pedantic the sti type R is not "virtually the same car". I have owned both and they are totally different to drive. Agreed they are similar cars and i believe the P1 is based on the typeR

johnfelstead

sure, i agree, but you get my idea. The P1 isnt like a completely diferent package, in some circumstances the STi is better with the centre diff control capability.

Oliver T.

MTR,
You seem to know an awful lot about my car and what was exactly wrong with it and what it requires.I may have been better speaking to you to find out how long it was going to take!
My gripe is not with the mechanics at the garage,as I appreciate what they are doing.(please tell your mate this who is fixing it).
Nor is it with the sales guy who I dealt with at the dealers,as it is he who seems to have speeded the job up.
My dissatisfaction is the fact that the car went into the dealers on the 7th april and I was told that when I returned from holidy on the 25th that it should be ready.From the 25th I have rung the dealers and have been told it would be ready for the following week.This has now gone on for nearly 4 weeks.If I had been told that it wasn't going to be ready for x amount of weeks then far enough.But to be told every week that it would be ready then it isn't,this is what pisses me off.Don't get me wrong I don't want the job rushed but to keep getting fobbed off every week,it is now starting to get to me.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable wanting to know when my car is going to be ready after 6 weeks.

Thanks John for seeing my point of view.

Cheers.

scoobynutta555

yeah i agree john, but only for gravel and snow lol. i could do with the water spray and the retractable mirrors that seem to have gotten lost to the P1

Dont miss the adjustable diff tho! nightmare in the wet even with settings forward

marty

Oliver
I sort of know the problems you are having.I have had a P1 for 2 years,The first year i had no problems but then i had to have the engine re-built and a piston replaced.A month later i had to have both heads re-built because of problems with the tappets jamming in the head.On average it has gone back 2-3 times a month with other faults with suspension problems,which have took the dealer 12 months to find and fix.I have thought about selling the car but there is no other car that sounds the same with a performance exhaust on eg my scorpion which makes it pop and bang on over-run.
After taking the car for a run i keep changing my mind and decide to keep it.I just hope i dont have any problems when the warrenty runs out.
marty

johnfelstead

Left foot braking would allow you to get the most out of the centre diff. I am crap at it at the moment, i have been with S de B many times when he has been playing with the CD and LFB and it transforms the handling if you can do it properly, which S de B can. Pretty amazing grip and balance can be generated that way.

MTR

Oliver,
If you had stated in your initial post that you had consistently been given promises that were then not met, I would have understood your position, and perhaps not felt as defensive for the dealer.
Clearly you have not felt as though you have been dealt with honestly.

However your post seemed to imply that 6 weeks was far too long and the car should have been back on the road.
A failing caused by 'Subaru's crap customer care' ie. dealer.

This then reflects badly on the dealership, and colours other peoples view of them. Maybe justifiably, or maybe a little bit biased, depending on which side of the story you hear.
And of course wether any of us gets to hear the whole story, as is now becoming clear.

The part supply and condition of the parts sent is completely outside the control of any dealer, as I have no doubt you can appreciate.

How many times have you bought something, got it home and found it wasn't right.
Do you go back and stuff the sales assistant at the shop, for a faulty item made in Korea, that came in a sealed box. How were they to know when it was delivered to them it was going to be faulty.
Would you then post on a web site what a bunch of tossers everyone at that shop was, if they genuinely were attempting to fix it, after accepting that the problem was not of the customers own doing?

The chap fixing it wants it right. He is frustrated as well.
All the mechanics would love to be able to strip a faulty car, go to the stores, on site, pick up everything they need, and immediately rebuild it.

Instead they quite often end up with several jobs in a state of partial completeness, awaiting parts.
Exactly the same as any garage in the country.

I can honestly state that they are a good bunch of blokes, and have assisted myself above and beyond the call of duty so to speak, more than once.

I do hope you get your car back very soon, and please don't allow a misunderstanding between yourself and the service manager spoil your relationship with the dealer.
They really are a very understanding gang.

Have you explained that you do not want a false promise just to keep you quiet, but a realistic forecast of when it could be done.

Good luck.

*************************

John Felstead,
The guarantee offered by most if not all manufactures usually covers failure of an item caused by faulty parts or manufacture.
They are very rarely completely open ended for ALL eventualities.

IE If you had been competing in the Spa 24 hour race and blew your engine up, they would most likely (and correctly) tell you to take a running jump, or something similar.
Even race car builders don't gaurantee their engines for that.

So in any warranty claim scenario there will always be an element of who is to blame?.
The customer for failing to use the product in a manner for which it was designed, ie misusing it, or the manufacturer for supplying faulty goods.

Subaru just as all other manufacturers, do NOT offer a 3 year 'do what you like with your vehicle warranty'
Don't check the oil, drive it non stop at maximum speed for any length of time you see fit, don't check your tyre pressures etc etc

I'm NOT suggesting Oliver had done anything like that.

But stating that when faced with a LARGE bill, I would not be suprised if a fair percentage of motor manufactures would try to get out of paying the claim, by trying to blame the owner for failing to use the product in a manner for which it was designed.

A couple who used to work with my wife had a K reg BMW 540. It was the one that BMW recognised had a design flaw with the cylinder liners. They replaced them free of charge for a limited time period, when the fault was discovered.

Unfortunately my wifes friend found out too late, as they had bought the car secondhand, and were not informed.
It was only when they were trying to sell it, that a buyer who was very knowledgable about BMWs gave them the whole story.

The car had a full service history, but suprise suprise, when they wrote to BMW asking for a new VERY EXPENSIVE engine that was required due to an admitted design flaw in the engine, which due to UK petrol wrecked the liners in the engine, they were told NO WAY!
They had to resort to legal proceedings involving a solicitor and eventually got part payment, but still had to find approx £2K.

So I find it mildly confusing when someone who is getting a replacement engine, whose failure is not caused by an established known fault(the piston slap problem), but could 'potentially' be caused by misuse, gets NO aggravation from the dealer or IM, gets a new engine (like you say not FREE) under the terms of the gaurantee, and still finds time to moan.

If it happened to my car and they said its Ok we will fix it, I would breath a large sigh of relief, thankfull for small mercies, and keep quiet, and not post on here about how useless the garage is.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be a bit miffed, being kept waiting, but not half as miffed as if I had to foot the entire bill myself.

Cheers MTR