Another Post deleted.......what is the point in having......
05 April 2002, 06:38 PM
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Also I have remembered that I was not moderating the board for a while in the middle of March, due to a back injury and so might not of been able to read the whole thread from start to finish or reply to emails if I was sent any, but I had informed the moderator forum of this.
SORRY FOR BEING SICK BUT MAYBE I SHOULD OF CARRIED ON WITH A SLIPPED DISC THAT WAS FECKING PAINFULL?
Just checked back in my mail folder and there is not a single mail about this TOYO
thread!
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] ian
[Edited by ian/555 - 5/4/2002 7:48:29 PM]
SORRY FOR BEING SICK BUT MAYBE I SHOULD OF CARRIED ON WITH A SLIPPED DISC THAT WAS FECKING PAINFULL?
Just checked back in my mail folder and there is not a single mail about this TOYO
thread![img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] ian
[Edited by ian/555 - 5/4/2002 7:48:29 PM]
05 April 2002, 07:04 PM
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Ian,
Please be assured that the vast majority of us really appreciate the time and effort the moderators put in.
I have e-mailed moderators and Simon about posts I thought could be damaging to scoobynet in the past.
I don’t get on scoobynet during working hours but spend probably a couple of hours in the afternoon and a couple of hours at night on it, can only imagine the amount of time moderators have to spend on here to trawl through all the threads and make decisions whether it is libellous or not.
I agree that some times I wonder why something has been deleted when I couldn’t see anything wrong with it, but hey, its not my site, I’m not trying to keep myself from legal action and I don’t give up my spare time to keep the site functioning and above all I’m grateful for Simon and all the others for keeping scoobynet going.
Finally, I have met some great people and some good friends on here. Simon got me involved in preparations for my greatest passion the world Rally Championship and I enjoy the social functions.
Scoobynet is much more than a Subaru information website it is a “Community” and we should be thankful for all those that keep the “Community” together.
Lee
[Edited by logiclee - 5/4/2002 8:15:09 PM]
Please be assured that the vast majority of us really appreciate the time and effort the moderators put in.
I have e-mailed moderators and Simon about posts I thought could be damaging to scoobynet in the past.
I don’t get on scoobynet during working hours but spend probably a couple of hours in the afternoon and a couple of hours at night on it, can only imagine the amount of time moderators have to spend on here to trawl through all the threads and make decisions whether it is libellous or not.
I agree that some times I wonder why something has been deleted when I couldn’t see anything wrong with it, but hey, its not my site, I’m not trying to keep myself from legal action and I don’t give up my spare time to keep the site functioning and above all I’m grateful for Simon and all the others for keeping scoobynet going.
Finally, I have met some great people and some good friends on here. Simon got me involved in preparations for my greatest passion the world Rally Championship and I enjoy the social functions.
Scoobynet is much more than a Subaru information website it is a “Community” and we should be thankful for all those that keep the “Community” together.
Lee
[Edited by logiclee - 5/4/2002 8:15:09 PM]
04 May 2002, 12:38 AM
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LOL.... scoobynet mods strike again 
The most memorable thread i saw was the one in "non-scooby related" where this guys asked what toyo tires were like.Well he gets a few replies saying "****" and so the Moderator say`s "come on guys, if your going to reply make sense and give reasons to why you dont like them" ....
Well Claudius(one of the posters who constantly drives "The Ring") replies "they overheat and bits fall off them under hard driving" ... well blow me, an hour later the whole thread is edited under the excuse *edited due to liabelous content* .... hehe, and to think he actually did what the moderator requested and got the thread closed because of it!!!!
No doubt the same will happen here
Rich.
The most memorable thread i saw was the one in "non-scooby related" where this guys asked what toyo tires were like.Well he gets a few replies saying "****" and so the Moderator say`s "come on guys, if your going to reply make sense and give reasons to why you dont like them" ....
Well Claudius(one of the posters who constantly drives "The Ring") replies "they overheat and bits fall off them under hard driving" ... well blow me, an hour later the whole thread is edited under the excuse *edited due to liabelous content* .... hehe, and to think he actually did what the moderator requested and got the thread closed because of it!!!!
No doubt the same will happen here
Rich.
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04 May 2002, 09:23 AM
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Richi,
Look, we've been told time, and time again, that any post that is detrimental to the interests of this community, will be deleted !!
So what the heck would you expect to happen, when someone states that a particular tyre is overheats, and falls apart ????
If we all stopped buying these tyres, because of a post on Scoobynet, Simon would certainly lose his sponsorship from said company, then he'd have to fork out, from his own pocket, which would put more pressure on him to charge us for the use of Scoobynet, and therfore, would be to the "detriment of the community" !!!!!!
However, it does cause a bit of a dilemma, if the community aren't warned, or advised about what certain products, may, or may not do, in certain conditions, or circumstances, because then they could end up going to the "big Ring in the sky", and then there would be less people creating "hits" on Scoobynet, meaning less interest from advertisers, meaning SDB would be under more pressure to charge, which would be to the detriment of the community......GET THE PICTURE.......
I didn't see Steves post, so can't comment
Mark.
Look, we've been told time, and time again, that any post that is detrimental to the interests of this community, will be deleted !!
So what the heck would you expect to happen, when someone states that a particular tyre is overheats, and falls apart ????
If we all stopped buying these tyres, because of a post on Scoobynet, Simon would certainly lose his sponsorship from said company, then he'd have to fork out, from his own pocket, which would put more pressure on him to charge us for the use of Scoobynet, and therfore, would be to the "detriment of the community" !!!!!!
However, it does cause a bit of a dilemma, if the community aren't warned, or advised about what certain products, may, or may not do, in certain conditions, or circumstances, because then they could end up going to the "big Ring in the sky", and then there would be less people creating "hits" on Scoobynet, meaning less interest from advertisers, meaning SDB would be under more pressure to charge, which would be to the detriment of the community......GET THE PICTURE.......
I didn't see Steves post, so can't comment
Mark.
04 May 2002, 09:28 AM
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Rich
With a site as popular as this, you have to be careful. Ask SDB how many letters a month on average he receives threatening legal action against Scoobynet. As you can imagine he does not have the time or the resources to fight all of these. Sad fact of life, but the truth. You may feel that sometimes the moderating is a little over zealous, but we continually tread a fine line between allowing freedom of speech and protecting Scoobynet.
This is not a matter to be taken lightly.
Chris
With a site as popular as this, you have to be careful. Ask SDB how many letters a month on average he receives threatening legal action against Scoobynet. As you can imagine he does not have the time or the resources to fight all of these. Sad fact of life, but the truth. You may feel that sometimes the moderating is a little over zealous, but we continually tread a fine line between allowing freedom of speech and protecting Scoobynet.
This is not a matter to be taken lightly.
Chris
04 May 2002, 10:59 AM
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i think we should be honest - but the moderators have got to do what they have to do to cover their asses . maybe if we devise a system of giving points out of 10 or something for a product or service then thats fair. manufacturers and companies should be aware of what we think of them and respond to it-its free marketing for them,- plus this is after all a community site and and a country with freedom of speech.[blimey its only sat.am -must be the speckled hen i drunk last night!]
04 May 2002, 11:37 AM
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Surely if someone buys a set of tyres and they overheat and bits fall off them then he has every right to tell whoever he likes providing he gives all the facts and those facts are the truth.
If I post on here saying Product X is a pile of crap then the post should be deleted, but if I say Product X is a pile of crap "in my opinion, BECAUSE..." then I don't see a problem.
If we carry on like this even saying that Product X is better than Product Y will be outlawed and half the point of a BBS will be down the tubes.
Rant over.
If I post on here saying Product X is a pile of crap then the post should be deleted, but if I say Product X is a pile of crap "in my opinion, BECAUSE..." then I don't see a problem.
If we carry on like this even saying that Product X is better than Product Y will be outlawed and half the point of a BBS will be down the tubes.
Rant over.
04 May 2002, 12:13 PM
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I think some people are missing the point. If someone states that they tried product X, and the results were *******, it is not libel.
So when someone stated that when they used a certain tyre at the Ring, it overheated, and bits of tread fell off, the post would NOT have been deleted because someone was worried about legal action, even if that was the reason given.
Toyo sponsored SDB for his world record, they are splashed over the sponsored car he drove. Use some common sense
Of course some posts should be deleted, or edited, that's common sense too, but don't get confused over what's deleted for "Politics", and what gets deleted for common sense, or "legal" reasons.
Mark.
So when someone stated that when they used a certain tyre at the Ring, it overheated, and bits of tread fell off, the post would NOT have been deleted because someone was worried about legal action, even if that was the reason given.
Toyo sponsored SDB for his world record, they are splashed over the sponsored car he drove. Use some common sense
Of course some posts should be deleted, or edited, that's common sense too, but don't get confused over what's deleted for "Politics", and what gets deleted for common sense, or "legal" reasons.
Mark.
04 May 2002, 01:26 PM
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If you've got a beef with a product, why not tell the manafacturer?
(btw, as I'm typing this, the post just arrived, it's 1.15PM ffs! )
I don't get the whole, scoobynet / SDB gettin sued for libel, it's says next to the comment who posted it, why don't they get sued
Bob
(btw, as I'm typing this, the post just arrived, it's 1.15PM ffs!
)I don't get the whole, scoobynet / SDB gettin sued for libel, it's says next to the comment who posted it, why don't they get sued
Bob
04 May 2002, 01:32 PM
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I fail to see how Scoobynet can be help responsible for what anyone says on it. You quite clearly state at the bottom that 'opinions expressed are not necessarily...' just quote that back to all those letters and say sorry take it up with the poster!!
I think you should be allowed to express your opinions on cars, products, etc cause at the end of the day that's all it is - one persons opinion v's another!
I think you should be allowed to express your opinions on cars, products, etc cause at the end of the day that's all it is - one persons opinion v's another!
04 May 2002, 01:33 PM
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I am not speaking anymore as a moderator of Scoobynet as I resigned last week.
I personally volunteered alot of my time for free to help keep this bbs going, as I thought that it would be a shame to lose it again due to potentianally libellous/slanderous statements made by others. I wish I had not bothered now, as a moderator you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. If anyone here feels that they could do a better job than I did, then feel free to contact Simon De Banke or Shaun Fennings at webmaster@scoobynet.co.uk as there is currently a vacancy.
Maybe the problem of people posting statements that could be deemed by moderators to be border line in there legal standing could be avoided if a register of every users full name and address was kept on record, so that if any threat of legal action was made to Scoobynet then there details could be passed to the people concerned and the bbs and moderators could continue without the threat of being personally sued and losing their Homes!
But the trouble with this would be that, Scoobynet is deemed to be the publisher, and the moderators the editors and as such we are liable for any and all statements made on this bbs.
If anyone would personally like to underwrite the risk of Scoobynet and its moderators being sued due to the content of the bbs then I am sure that the Webmaster would be very interested in hearing from you but I doubt very much that this will happen!
regards ian not a moderator anymore despite what it says on the left!
I personally volunteered alot of my time for free to help keep this bbs going, as I thought that it would be a shame to lose it again due to potentianally libellous/slanderous statements made by others. I wish I had not bothered now, as a moderator you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. If anyone here feels that they could do a better job than I did, then feel free to contact Simon De Banke or Shaun Fennings at webmaster@scoobynet.co.uk as there is currently a vacancy.
Maybe the problem of people posting statements that could be deemed by moderators to be border line in there legal standing could be avoided if a register of every users full name and address was kept on record, so that if any threat of legal action was made to Scoobynet then there details could be passed to the people concerned and the bbs and moderators could continue without the threat of being personally sued and losing their Homes!
But the trouble with this would be that, Scoobynet is deemed to be the publisher, and the moderators the editors and as such we are liable for any and all statements made on this bbs.
If anyone would personally like to underwrite the risk of Scoobynet and its moderators being sued due to the content of the bbs then I am sure that the Webmaster would be very interested in hearing from you
but I doubt very much that this will happen!regards ian not a moderator anymore despite what it says on the left!
04 May 2002, 02:00 PM
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Why not get a list together of interested parties email addresses and have a name & shame/Excellent customer care mailing list? Theyre not difficult to set up, most of them are free, try listbot or something?
luv bumpy x
luv bumpy x
04 May 2002, 02:29 PM
#20
OK
Dingy. I'm not even going to get into this with you as we had a long conversation about this where you promised me you would not post any more on the subject and told me you understood fully the reasons for it, even though both you and I hated those reasons.
Even though you understood and agreed to all this, you still posted more which I have to feel slightly betrayed over.
Mark
This is getting tiresome. I take HUGE offense to the suggestion that I deleted a thread about TOYO tyres (which I don't even remember seeing, let alone deleting) due to ANYTHING to do with them sponsoring me.
I am sick to the back teeth of you stating that I moderate based on politics or anything other than in the interests of scoobynet and the scoobynet community / to protect myself from legal action.
I think the suggestion above about underwriting the threat of legal action is a VERY good point. If you would like to do this, I will gladly leave ANY thread that I would normally have deleted for legal reasons at your discretion.
It is probably of no interest to you that I have not had time to be moderating scoobynet of late and almost ANYTHING that has been deleted / moved / locked has been done so by our volunteer moderators who have absolutely NO commercial interest in this community or scoobynet. There is NOTHING in this for them except to support you all!!! How on EARTH could the moderating still be under question by you as beeing a benefit to SDB!!!!
Please stop posting this kind of thing. It is insulting to me personally and to those that give up their time ONLY to support you and keep this place going!
Ian
You have been so incredibly supportive of scoobynet and the community and to me personally. I am REALLY sorry (as I told you personally) to lose you as a moderator. I really hope whoever takes over from you can do half as good a job as you.
I know it is difficult to hear the kind of thing in this thread and the ones that pushed you to make your decision, but rest assured, the people who truly appreciate what is involved in the job of moderator, and the ones that have the knowledge of how and why we really do things (rather than having the luxury of speculation and fantassy) know you did a really good job.
All the best
Simon
Dingy. I'm not even going to get into this with you as we had a long conversation about this where you promised me you would not post any more on the subject and told me you understood fully the reasons for it, even though both you and I hated those reasons.
Even though you understood and agreed to all this, you still posted more which I have to feel slightly betrayed over.
Mark
This is getting tiresome. I take HUGE offense to the suggestion that I deleted a thread about TOYO tyres (which I don't even remember seeing, let alone deleting) due to ANYTHING to do with them sponsoring me.
I am sick to the back teeth of you stating that I moderate based on politics or anything other than in the interests of scoobynet and the scoobynet community / to protect myself from legal action.
I think the suggestion above about underwriting the threat of legal action is a VERY good point. If you would like to do this, I will gladly leave ANY thread that I would normally have deleted for legal reasons at your discretion.
It is probably of no interest to you that I have not had time to be moderating scoobynet of late and almost ANYTHING that has been deleted / moved / locked has been done so by our volunteer moderators who have absolutely NO commercial interest in this community or scoobynet. There is NOTHING in this for them except to support you all!!! How on EARTH could the moderating still be under question by you as beeing a benefit to SDB!!!!
Please stop posting this kind of thing. It is insulting to me personally and to those that give up their time ONLY to support you and keep this place going!
Ian
You have been so incredibly supportive of scoobynet and the community and to me personally. I am REALLY sorry (as I told you personally) to lose you as a moderator. I really hope whoever takes over from you can do half as good a job as you.
I know it is difficult to hear the kind of thing in this thread and the ones that pushed you to make your decision, but rest assured, the people who truly appreciate what is involved in the job of moderator, and the ones that have the knowledge of how and why we really do things (rather than having the luxury of speculation and fantassy) know you did a really good job.
All the best
Simon
04 May 2002, 02:30 PM
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It's only libel if it's not true.
If someone bought a tyre from company X and it was of poor quality and he/she states this then he is only telling the truth about what happened in his/her experience. Can't be sued for that. To say that all tyres from company X are of poor quality IS libel if based purely on one persons experience, they would need to prove that all tyres are inferior. Just make sure that your posts are 'IMO' or 'In MY Experience' etc. because that's what they are!. The Moderators have to cover their *****, let's not make it any harder for them OK.
In addition regarding sponsorship - are we not allowed to post about poor experiences with whatever company just because they happen to be a sponsor? Surely they can't be excluded from opinions. Company X's products don't suddenly become good just because they've become a scoobynet sponsor.
my tuppence worth.
If someone bought a tyre from company X and it was of poor quality and he/she states this then he is only telling the truth about what happened in his/her experience. Can't be sued for that. To say that all tyres from company X are of poor quality IS libel if based purely on one persons experience, they would need to prove that all tyres are inferior. Just make sure that your posts are 'IMO' or 'In MY Experience' etc. because that's what they are!. The Moderators have to cover their *****, let's not make it any harder for them OK.
In addition regarding sponsorship - are we not allowed to post about poor experiences with whatever company just because they happen to be a sponsor? Surely they can't be excluded from opinions. Company X's products don't suddenly become good just because they've become a scoobynet sponsor.
my tuppence worth.
04 May 2002, 02:44 PM
#22
Nobody has ever said that sponsors cannot have bad reviews on here apart from people who are speculating.
This has never been the case.
About libell. Are you speaking from a standpoint of experience and legal training? Because it is unfortunately not as simple as that. BUT...
Even if it WAS as simple as that..
How on earth can the moderators know whether what you are saying is true or false? Just because you say it is true, how can we know that?
Should we only delete the ones we know to be false? I'm sure that would go down well with people who say "just becuase I don't know you personally my posts get removed, but person x was allowed to say his piece!".
I have personally had some of the worst service and been ripped off by more people than I care to remember, but you won't ever see a SINGLE post or comment from me stating this. I could quite happily do this, but through respect for the people that can't and to avoid setting bad examples, I don't.
I'm sure comments about me doing things for my own reasons fit in perfectly with that.
Regards
Simon
This has never been the case.
About libell. Are you speaking from a standpoint of experience and legal training? Because it is unfortunately not as simple as that. BUT...
Even if it WAS as simple as that..
How on earth can the moderators know whether what you are saying is true or false? Just because you say it is true, how can we know that?
Should we only delete the ones we know to be false? I'm sure that would go down well with people who say "just becuase I don't know you personally my posts get removed, but person x was allowed to say his piece!".
I have personally had some of the worst service and been ripped off by more people than I care to remember, but you won't ever see a SINGLE post or comment from me stating this. I could quite happily do this, but through respect for the people that can't and to avoid setting bad examples, I don't.
I'm sure comments about me doing things for my own reasons fit in perfectly with that.
Regards
Simon
04 May 2002, 04:13 PM
#23
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Presumably Scoobynet is actually a limited company and so, Simon cannot be sued "for his home"????? Granted that Scoobynet Ltd could be sued and made bankrupt which is obviously something we don't want to see happen, so all in all, it doesn't make any real difference and we all need to be equally careful!!!
Dingy, I know the details of what happened RE: New Age (as by now I'm sure, most others do too ) but you are not going to achieve anything by continually bringing it back up, over and over on here!!!!!! If anything, you are loosing respect in the community because of it, something I'm sure you don't really want to do as a supplier (and you know which side of the fence I stand on so please take this as constructive critisism!!!) Also, I don't see Harj posting on here anymore so I don't think you're "protecting" anyone.........
Cheers,
Matt
Dingy, I know the details of what happened RE: New Age (as by now I'm sure, most others do too
) but you are not going to achieve anything by continually bringing it back up, over and over on here!!!!!! If anything, you are loosing respect in the community because of it, something I'm sure you don't really want to do as a supplier (and you know which side of the fence I stand on so please take this as constructive critisism!!!) Also, I don't see Harj posting on here anymore so I don't think you're "protecting" anyone.........Cheers,
Matt
04 May 2002, 05:27 PM
#24
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Simon,
"I am sick to the back teeth of you stating that I moderate based on politics or anything other than in the interests of scoobynet and the scoobynet community / to protect myself from legal action."
Well that's the way that it comes across !!!!
If you, were SO worried about the "community", I'd have thought that when a product, or the level of service a company provide is questioned, it would be in the INTEREST OF THE COMMUNTY to know about it, and rather than just deleting a thread permanently, it could be qualified, and then reinstated if appropriate.
No intelligent person, is going to complain about a blatantly libellous post, that gets deleted.
YOUR way deprives the COMMUNITY of important information, that at best will cost them money, and at worst, could be dangerous.
"Good" reports about companes, or products are take at face value, even though the "poster" may have an ulterior motive !!!
If it's NOT POLITICS, then maybe you should take a little more interest in what your moderators are deleting, and why !
Maybe then, we can stop the COMMUNITY being ripped off by the minority, and prevent putting them in potentially dangerous situations !!!
Maybe if YOU were to post about your experences of getting ripped off, it wouldn't happen to others !!!
I'm "sick to the back teeth" of you claiming your only interests, are for those of the COMMUNITY, but when it comes to it, do SFA to protect them !!!!
I'm not having a go at the moderators, they operate under your guidance, and do the best they can, within the limitations you allow them.
Mark.
"I am sick to the back teeth of you stating that I moderate based on politics or anything other than in the interests of scoobynet and the scoobynet community / to protect myself from legal action."
Well that's the way that it comes across !!!!
If you, were SO worried about the "community", I'd have thought that when a product, or the level of service a company provide is questioned, it would be in the INTEREST OF THE COMMUNTY to know about it, and rather than just deleting a thread permanently, it could be qualified, and then reinstated if appropriate.
No intelligent person, is going to complain about a blatantly libellous post, that gets deleted.
YOUR way deprives the COMMUNITY of important information, that at best will cost them money, and at worst, could be dangerous.
"Good" reports about companes, or products are take at face value, even though the "poster" may have an ulterior motive !!!
If it's NOT POLITICS, then maybe you should take a little more interest in what your moderators are deleting, and why !
Maybe then, we can stop the COMMUNITY being ripped off by the minority, and prevent putting them in potentially dangerous situations !!!
Maybe if YOU were to post about your experences of getting ripped off, it wouldn't happen to others !!!
I'm "sick to the back teeth" of you claiming your only interests, are for those of the COMMUNITY, but when it comes to it, do SFA to protect them !!!!
I'm not having a go at the moderators, they operate under your guidance, and do the best they can, within the limitations you allow them.
Mark.
04 May 2002, 05:45 PM
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I'm not touching this with a 60 foot pole. Most of my posts are bollox anyway but if SDB was to come up to me face to face and say "steady on you're gonna get me into trouble" then I would not say anything to get him into the ****. It is no different on the net. SDB is paying for the webspace. We are simply users. What good is an inflammatory post on a board that has been shut down for Liable? Nobody can see it and SDB has a big legal bill and an **** ache that he can do without. Its pointless. Its all well and good quoting free speach an civil liberties, but it aint you who is landed in the **** it is SDB. If I had the choice of deleting the post of being forced to pay X000 pounds in damages, I wouldnt think twice, would you?
At the end of the day it is HIS board and as such he can do what ever he wants with it. I'm am amazed on a regular basis that he puts up with the some of the **** that is slung his way.
and there was me thinking I wasnt going to touch this arguement with a 60 foot pole
astraboy.
but if SDB was to come up to me face to face and say "steady on you're gonna get me into trouble" then I would not say anything to get him into the ****. It is no different on the net. SDB is paying for the webspace. We are simply users. What good is an inflammatory post on a board that has been shut down for Liable? Nobody can see it and SDB has a big legal bill and an **** ache that he can do without. Its pointless. Its all well and good quoting free speach an civil liberties, but it aint you who is landed in the **** it is SDB. If I had the choice of deleting the post of being forced to pay X000 pounds in damages, I wouldnt think twice, would you?At the end of the day it is HIS board and as such he can do what ever he wants with it. I'm am amazed on a regular basis that he puts up with the some of the **** that is slung his way.
and there was me thinking I wasnt going to touch this arguement with a 60 foot pole
astraboy.
04 May 2002, 06:23 PM
#26
R19KET
We have been through all of this time and time again.
I could just leave this post as saying "By all means, PLEASE send me a solicitors letter stating that you are now legally responsible for any damages or legal expenses incurred by scoobynet in response to libellous posts, and the community, and myself will be incredibly grateful for your support." but as always, I feel compelled to explain AGAIN where you are missing the points.
"rather than just deleting a thread permanently, it could be qualified, and then reinstated if appropriate"
Unfortunately we don't have the time to spend removing a thread, going through it with expensive legal advise to re-word other peoples posts, then put it back up again, only to have the next few posts contain further material, to take it back down again and do the same.
There have been a few threads that I can remember where I have spotted them early on and posted saying "OK. This has been very well worded so far, please let's not spoil it by posting something that means the thread needs to be removed." and sure enough within a few posts this happens.
I also feel it is far more insulting to pick out one individual in a thread and alter THEIR words.
And the last important part of this (which has by the way come from having to live and breath these decisions, not just comment on them every now and then from the confort of your non-liable position) is that editing posts and leaving the thread up reduces our legal position in showing due-dilligence (sp?) as it shows that the comments were INDEED those of scoobynet and the moderators.
"No intelligent person, is going to complain about a blatantly libellous post, that gets deleted."
At what point does it become "blatant"? Maybe to me, it becomes blatant as soon as it is deemed by the law to be potentially libellous??? Maybe it needs to be YOUR decision as to when it becomes blatant? The offer is there, please remember that!
"YOUR way deprives the COMMUNITY of important information, that at best will cost them money, and at worst, could be dangerous."
OK. Maybe I should switch it off? Would that increase the amount of information available to the community? Would it save people money?? PLEASE remember that we are PROVIDING information and a service, not taking anything away. If we can't add another service of allowing people to slate companies, causing us potential law suits and endless cost, then I do apologise, but we are not taking anything away!
""Good" reports about companes, or products are take at face value, even though the "poster" may have an ulterior motive !!!"
Have you not noticed the posts that say "edited by webmaster to remove commercial content"?
Some of these are to remove posts of exactly the nature you describe. We are not SUPERHUMAN! we can't read peoples minds! If you would like to spend day and night checking the boards for these kinds of posts, we will gladly delete them for you!
"If it's NOT POLITICS, then maybe you should take a little more interest in what your moderators are deleting, and why !"
I take GREAT interest in this. We often discuss the way we moderate. There is an active moderator's forum which allows us to discuss this kind of thing, and to set out guidelines. I can assure you ALL of these guidelines are set out in the interest of scoobynet and the community.
The moderators do an incredible job and sometimes pick me up on the way things are run, and I respond to that. Take the increase in number of moderators on the busiest forums. I did not want to do this as I felt it gave a draconian feel to the board. But was overrules by the majority who said this was necessary, and from what I've seen, they were right, and I humbly respect their decision.
Of course the initial guidelines come from me. But this community has thrived and continues even now to increase in popularity week after week. I have spent an incredible amount of time honing the guidelines so they work as best they can for everybody.
"Maybe then, we can stop the COMMUNITY being ripped off by the minority, and prevent putting them in potentially dangerous situations !!!"
I have no idea what dangerous situations you mean, but if you are still going on about this TOYO thread, I have no idea why it was removed. But there will have been a very good reason. If there is a problem that could be dangerous, first of all, it should be taken up with TOYO, but secondly, the bare facts can ususally be stated. I am sorry I can't save the world, I'm just trying to run an incredibly popular community forum.
"Maybe if YOU were to post about your experences of getting ripped off, it wouldn't happen to others !!!"
Don't you think I want to? Don't you think I personally wish that I could hear about all the bad things that happen to people on scoobynet, so they don't happen to me? What possible benefit could I get from not telling people about my experiences? What benefit could I get from people on scoobynet being ripped off by the same companies I have been ripped off by? PLEASE stop telling me I'm doing this for my own reasons, it would be a personal benefit to ME if I COULD post these things / hear about them!
"I'm "sick to the back teeth" of you claiming your only interests, are for those of the COMMUNITY, but when it comes to it, do SFA to protect them !!!!"
I'm not the law!!! I protect scoobynet so it is here for everyone to benefit from. I cannot provide free trips to the moon any more than I can provide a lawless zone where people can say what they want. I do everything I personally can to protect the community by posting on threads about driving to help avoid someone we all know and care about being hurt, but I am really sorry, I cannot help on the libell stuff.
AGAIN.. the offer is there if you would like to take up that mantle.
astraboy, and everyone else. Thank you
All the best
Simon
We have been through all of this time and time again.
I could just leave this post as saying "By all means, PLEASE send me a solicitors letter stating that you are now legally responsible for any damages or legal expenses incurred by scoobynet in response to libellous posts, and the community, and myself will be incredibly grateful for your support." but as always, I feel compelled to explain AGAIN where you are missing the points.
"rather than just deleting a thread permanently, it could be qualified, and then reinstated if appropriate"
Unfortunately we don't have the time to spend removing a thread, going through it with expensive legal advise to re-word other peoples posts, then put it back up again, only to have the next few posts contain further material, to take it back down again and do the same.
There have been a few threads that I can remember where I have spotted them early on and posted saying "OK. This has been very well worded so far, please let's not spoil it by posting something that means the thread needs to be removed." and sure enough within a few posts this happens.
I also feel it is far more insulting to pick out one individual in a thread and alter THEIR words.
And the last important part of this (which has by the way come from having to live and breath these decisions, not just comment on them every now and then from the confort of your non-liable position) is that editing posts and leaving the thread up reduces our legal position in showing due-dilligence (sp?) as it shows that the comments were INDEED those of scoobynet and the moderators.
"No intelligent person, is going to complain about a blatantly libellous post, that gets deleted."
At what point does it become "blatant"? Maybe to me, it becomes blatant as soon as it is deemed by the law to be potentially libellous??? Maybe it needs to be YOUR decision as to when it becomes blatant? The offer is there, please remember that!
"YOUR way deprives the COMMUNITY of important information, that at best will cost them money, and at worst, could be dangerous."
OK. Maybe I should switch it off? Would that increase the amount of information available to the community? Would it save people money?? PLEASE remember that we are PROVIDING information and a service, not taking anything away. If we can't add another service of allowing people to slate companies, causing us potential law suits and endless cost, then I do apologise, but we are not taking anything away!
""Good" reports about companes, or products are take at face value, even though the "poster" may have an ulterior motive !!!"
Have you not noticed the posts that say "edited by webmaster to remove commercial content"?
Some of these are to remove posts of exactly the nature you describe. We are not SUPERHUMAN! we can't read peoples minds! If you would like to spend day and night checking the boards for these kinds of posts, we will gladly delete them for you!
"If it's NOT POLITICS, then maybe you should take a little more interest in what your moderators are deleting, and why !"
I take GREAT interest in this. We often discuss the way we moderate. There is an active moderator's forum which allows us to discuss this kind of thing, and to set out guidelines. I can assure you ALL of these guidelines are set out in the interest of scoobynet and the community.
The moderators do an incredible job and sometimes pick me up on the way things are run, and I respond to that. Take the increase in number of moderators on the busiest forums. I did not want to do this as I felt it gave a draconian feel to the board. But was overrules by the majority who said this was necessary, and from what I've seen, they were right, and I humbly respect their decision.
Of course the initial guidelines come from me. But this community has thrived and continues even now to increase in popularity week after week. I have spent an incredible amount of time honing the guidelines so they work as best they can for everybody.
"Maybe then, we can stop the COMMUNITY being ripped off by the minority, and prevent putting them in potentially dangerous situations !!!"
I have no idea what dangerous situations you mean, but if you are still going on about this TOYO thread, I have no idea why it was removed. But there will have been a very good reason. If there is a problem that could be dangerous, first of all, it should be taken up with TOYO, but secondly, the bare facts can ususally be stated. I am sorry I can't save the world, I'm just trying to run an incredibly popular community forum.
"Maybe if YOU were to post about your experences of getting ripped off, it wouldn't happen to others !!!"
Don't you think I want to? Don't you think I personally wish that I could hear about all the bad things that happen to people on scoobynet, so they don't happen to me? What possible benefit could I get from not telling people about my experiences? What benefit could I get from people on scoobynet being ripped off by the same companies I have been ripped off by? PLEASE stop telling me I'm doing this for my own reasons, it would be a personal benefit to ME if I COULD post these things / hear about them!
"I'm "sick to the back teeth" of you claiming your only interests, are for those of the COMMUNITY, but when it comes to it, do SFA to protect them !!!!"
I'm not the law!!! I protect scoobynet so it is here for everyone to benefit from. I cannot provide free trips to the moon any more than I can provide a lawless zone where people can say what they want. I do everything I personally can to protect the community by posting on threads about driving to help avoid someone we all know and care about being hurt, but I am really sorry, I cannot help on the libell stuff.
AGAIN.. the offer is there if you would like to take up that mantle.
astraboy, and everyone else. Thank you
All the best
Simon
04 May 2002, 06:41 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
Mark,
I really do suggest you take your head out of your ****, and wake up in the REAL world!
You may not agree with the way "things are", I may not agree with the way "things are", SDB may not agree with the way "things are". BUT at the end of the day, Simon, and only Simon's head is on the block. As you know NOTHING about ANY incidences that have happened in the past with legal issues, I suggest you make NO comment on what is right and what is wrong.
If you REALLY think that SDB makes ANY financial gain from sponserships (which dont exist, apart from the banner ads THAT ONLY H E L P to run this site), then you better think again. Saying he does (or indicating he does), is UTTER crap. If this was the case, then why hasn't the recent thread about TN been removed??!!
"If you, were SO worried about the "community", I'd have thought that when a product, or the level of service a company provide is questioned, it would be in the INTEREST OF THE COMMUNTY to know about it, and rather than just deleting a thread permanently, it could be qualified, and then reinstated if appropriate."
If you would like to underwrite this, then like SDB has said things could change. If it's just a case that WE are being political, then surely YOU would have nothing to lose??!!! GET REAL!!!
No intelligent person, is going to complain about a blatantly libellous post, that gets deleted.
"YOUR way deprives the COMMUNITY of important information, that at best will cost them money, and at worst, could be dangerous."
REALLY!!!!! And if Scoobynet goes down the s h i t t e r, because of legal issues, EVERYONE loses out.
"I'm "sick to the back teeth" of you claiming your only interests, are for those of the COMMUNITY, but when it comes to it, do SFA to protect them !!!!"
So he should jeopadise a financial loss, put his head on a block etc etc, to help out members of the community, that by you own assumptions we are treating badly.
How ANYONE can cast aspertions on somebody else, when they know absolutley **** all about issues, is beyond me.
When are CERTAIN people going to get through to there thick skulls that this facility is FREE for anybody to use....BUT is not free to administer and run.
I don't know about any other moderator, but I am sick to death of people moaning about issues that WE have no control over, and the fact that posts have to be removed to protect the existance of scoobynet.
I put in approx 2-3hours a day minimum, into the running of Scoobynet, and make NO financial (or other) gain from doing so. Posts like this make me wonder why I really bother. They are both insulting and unsupportive.
I really do suggest you take your head out of your ****, and wake up in the REAL world!
You may not agree with the way "things are", I may not agree with the way "things are", SDB may not agree with the way "things are". BUT at the end of the day, Simon, and only Simon's head is on the block. As you know NOTHING about ANY incidences that have happened in the past with legal issues, I suggest you make NO comment on what is right and what is wrong.
If you REALLY think that SDB makes ANY financial gain from sponserships (which dont exist, apart from the banner ads THAT ONLY H E L P to run this site), then you better think again. Saying he does (or indicating he does), is UTTER crap. If this was the case, then why hasn't the recent thread about TN been removed??!!
"If you, were SO worried about the "community", I'd have thought that when a product, or the level of service a company provide is questioned, it would be in the INTEREST OF THE COMMUNTY to know about it, and rather than just deleting a thread permanently, it could be qualified, and then reinstated if appropriate."
If you would like to underwrite this, then like SDB has said things could change. If it's just a case that WE are being political, then surely YOU would have nothing to lose??!!! GET REAL!!!
No intelligent person, is going to complain about a blatantly libellous post, that gets deleted.
"YOUR way deprives the COMMUNITY of important information, that at best will cost them money, and at worst, could be dangerous."
REALLY!!!!! And if Scoobynet goes down the s h i t t e r, because of legal issues, EVERYONE loses out.
"I'm "sick to the back teeth" of you claiming your only interests, are for those of the COMMUNITY, but when it comes to it, do SFA to protect them !!!!"
So he should jeopadise a financial loss, put his head on a block etc etc, to help out members of the community, that by you own assumptions we are treating badly.
How ANYONE can cast aspertions on somebody else, when they know absolutley **** all about issues, is beyond me.
When are CERTAIN people going to get through to there thick skulls that this facility is FREE for anybody to use....BUT is not free to administer and run.
I don't know about any other moderator, but I am sick to death of people moaning about issues that WE have no control over, and the fact that posts have to be removed to protect the existance of scoobynet.
I put in approx 2-3hours a day minimum, into the running of Scoobynet, and make NO financial (or other) gain from doing so. Posts like this make me wonder why I really bother. They are both insulting and unsupportive.
04 May 2002, 07:22 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Ok I have found the thread in question it is
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=78640
which can be found in the other marques forum.
This thread was moderated by me and not Simon De Banke and from the way that some of the text was quoted from the thread some people must of known this?
My only reason to moderate the thread was the potentionally libellous comments made by some people. If I got it wrong I am sorry but Hey I don't see any solicitors offering to help us out! Do you?
Also if you look at when I actually moderated the posts you can see that I did it when I had time to do it! Not in the way it first appears from the posts on the thread.
SORRY BUT I GAVE A LOT OF MY TIME TO THIS BBS BUT I WAS NOT PREPARED TO BE ON IT 24/7 FFS I do have a life outside of this BBS believe it or not.
If anyone out there is thinking of becoming a moderator just realise what accusations you are setting yourself up for because it would seem that some people are not satisfied with a service that is given for FREE.
What I don't get is why this subject has been brought up now and not at the time if you felt so strongly about it?
Also if you look in my post on the matter I said
"If anyone wishes to discuss this matter then please feel free to mail me.
ian "
I don't recall receiving any mails on the matter but if you say you sent me one and would like to tell me the date and time I will have a look for it in my mail folder.
(there I was thinking that I had resigned from this sh*t)
regards
ian
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=78640
which can be found in the other marques forum.
This thread was moderated by me and not Simon De Banke and from the way that some of the text was quoted from the thread some people must of known this?
My only reason to moderate the thread was the potentionally libellous comments made by some people. If I got it wrong I am sorry but Hey I don't see any solicitors offering to help us out! Do you?
Also if you look at when I actually moderated the posts you can see that I did it when I had time to do it! Not in the way it first appears from the posts on the thread.
SORRY BUT I GAVE A LOT OF MY TIME TO THIS BBS BUT I WAS NOT PREPARED TO BE ON IT 24/7 FFS I do have a life outside of this BBS believe it or not.
If anyone out there is thinking of becoming a moderator just realise what accusations you are setting yourself up for because it would seem that some people
are not satisfied with a service that is given for FREE.What I don't get is why this subject has been brought up now and not at the time if you felt so strongly about it?
Also if you look in my post on the matter I said
"If anyone wishes to discuss this matter then please feel free to mail me.
ian "
I don't recall receiving any mails on the matter but if you say you sent me one and would like to tell me the date and time I will have a look for it in my mail folder.
(there I was thinking that I had resigned from this sh*t)
regards
ian
04 May 2002, 10:00 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
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If someone has something positive to say,then post away and let us all know.However,if it's something negative then why not just email the person asking the question.That way it's not been viewed by 1000s of people and Scoobynet is not responsible.
It's easy to berate moderators,they'll never please everyone but without them the site would last about an hour before it was swamped by threats of action from manufacturers/suppliers.Think of them as football referees-everyone hates them but without them there's no game.
It's easy to berate moderators,they'll never please everyone but without them the site would last about an hour before it was swamped by threats of action from manufacturers/suppliers.Think of them as football referees-everyone hates them but without them there's no game
.