Big Thanks to API - Big NO THANKS to Autoprotect!
27 March 2012, 02:09 PM
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Big Thanks to API - Big NO THANKS to Autoprotect!
Hey Guys
Been lurking on this site for a while getting lots of useful information since buying my current Spec D back in June 2010 and finally decided to create an account and share my experiences of Subaru ownership so far...
As the title suggests I have recently had some work done by the fantastic guys at API. I suffered the all too common piston ring failure on my car back in November so started my research on the best place to get a rebuild and after finding lots of positive information on this site and several lengthy calls to David I finally settled on booking the car into API. By this time it was early December and I dropped my car in and drove off in the courtesy API wagon.
Once stripped down the turbo was found to have a large crack in the housing which was probably also contributing to the symptoms that lead me to discover the ring failure. There was also a crack in the oil pick up pipe which left much longer could well have caused a complete engine failure so it was lucky the engine was stripped down when it was!
David and I discussed options and we went with the following replacement parts to rebuild:
Supertech Forged Pistons with NPR Rings
ACL race big end bearings
APi 11mm parallel heat treated head stud set
SC46 Turbo
Cosworth Bafled Sump
Perrin Induction Pipe
I picked the car up a little over a week ago (I think David was rather glad to get his courtesy car back after 3 and a half months!) and have since put a good 700 miles on the running-in map and its performing superbly I couldnt be happier the guys have done a fantastic job and I cant wait to get the 1000 miles out the way and get it properly mapped!
Anyways Im sure you are wondering why on earth it took 3 and a half months to get that work done... Well firstly the delay had nothing whatsoever to do with API and I really appreciate the patience from David and everyone else there while I was trying to sort things out.
When I bought my car I took out a 2 year comprehensive warranty with Autoprotect so once the failure was discovered I contacted them and they told me I would need to get the engine stripped down and they would send out an engineer to look over the failed components before authorising payment. Sure enough the engineer turned up had a look over everything and went away to write his report back to Autoprotect. At this point everything seemed fine he seemed to be in agrement with what the guys were telling him so we expected a quick decision and the rebuild could start...
How wrong were we?
The next morning I get a call from David - Autoprotect rejected everything! I couldnt believe it so got on the phone to them. I spoke to some helpdesk agent who apparently was unable to put me through to any of their management team but would pass on a message for them to call.
I eventually got a call back from a manager who was unable to confirm exactly why the claim had been rejected but said it was all in the report however I would need to get this from Wessex Garages (The dealer I bought the car from).
Fair enough so I got on to them to get the report which several days later was emailed to me. Basically the engineer (From a company called Millbank) had stated that the damage to the engine was not consistent with the parts that had failed i.e. there was no scoring on the bore from the damaged rings nor was there any evidence of metal fragments in the sump. This was a complete lie as David had already stated otherwise. The report concluded that the parts the engineer examined were not from the same engine! I added some comments questioning the lack of detail and sent it to David who did the same, this was then passed back to Autoprotect.
After a few days of waiting and getting nowhere with Autoprotect I got fed up so decided to track down a contact number for Millbank and see what the hold up was. I spoke to a lady who seemed to be under the impression I was calling from Autoprotect (I didnt bother to correct her at this point) she stated that the report had been "adjusted" as requested and sent back to Autoprotect.
A few days later I receive a letter containing the adjusted report. This now goes into more detail and states that the ring failure could have only been caused by detonation because I had been using low octane fuel!! I have never put anything lower than 99RON in that car. He also states that the damage to the pick up pipe was progressive but it should have caused complete starvation. I find it highly suspicious that the engineer effectively rewrote his report based on mine and Davids comments and that so much detail was left out of the original report.
At this point after lots of going back and forth with Autoprotect they agreed to cover the cost of the turbo as there was no way to argue it was anything other than sudden mechanical failure.
By this time we were well into February and I comissioned an independent report on the engine to be carried out by Dekra. They confirmed that the failed parts were caused by defects / production faults (They even included pictures - one clearly shows the cracked ring matching the scoring on the bore)!
Autoprotect wrote to me in response saying that they did not cover parts that were subject to manufacturer recalls so the claim was still denied however they would offer me and additional £500 on top of the turbo claim. This was a bit confusing as neither reports made mention of recalls so I contaced IM group who confirmed there were no recalls on my car and they even contacted Autoprotect on my behalf to inform them.
At this point I have heard nothing back from Autoprotect. I received an email from Wessex Garages this morning stating that this had been escelated with their management so am waiting for a response.
Nearly 4 months and still ongoing... At least I have the car back and can enjoy it albeit with a large credit card bill that needs settling.
Been lurking on this site for a while getting lots of useful information since buying my current Spec D back in June 2010 and finally decided to create an account and share my experiences of Subaru ownership so far...
As the title suggests I have recently had some work done by the fantastic guys at API. I suffered the all too common piston ring failure on my car back in November so started my research on the best place to get a rebuild and after finding lots of positive information on this site and several lengthy calls to David I finally settled on booking the car into API. By this time it was early December and I dropped my car in and drove off in the courtesy API wagon.
Once stripped down the turbo was found to have a large crack in the housing which was probably also contributing to the symptoms that lead me to discover the ring failure. There was also a crack in the oil pick up pipe which left much longer could well have caused a complete engine failure so it was lucky the engine was stripped down when it was!
David and I discussed options and we went with the following replacement parts to rebuild:
Supertech Forged Pistons with NPR Rings
ACL race big end bearings
APi 11mm parallel heat treated head stud set
SC46 Turbo
Cosworth Bafled Sump
Perrin Induction Pipe
I picked the car up a little over a week ago (I think David was rather glad to get his courtesy car back after 3 and a half months!) and have since put a good 700 miles on the running-in map and its performing superbly I couldnt be happier the guys have done a fantastic job and I cant wait to get the 1000 miles out the way and get it properly mapped!
Anyways Im sure you are wondering why on earth it took 3 and a half months to get that work done... Well firstly the delay had nothing whatsoever to do with API and I really appreciate the patience from David and everyone else there while I was trying to sort things out.
When I bought my car I took out a 2 year comprehensive warranty with Autoprotect so once the failure was discovered I contacted them and they told me I would need to get the engine stripped down and they would send out an engineer to look over the failed components before authorising payment. Sure enough the engineer turned up had a look over everything and went away to write his report back to Autoprotect. At this point everything seemed fine he seemed to be in agrement with what the guys were telling him so we expected a quick decision and the rebuild could start...
How wrong were we?
The next morning I get a call from David - Autoprotect rejected everything! I couldnt believe it so got on the phone to them. I spoke to some helpdesk agent who apparently was unable to put me through to any of their management team but would pass on a message for them to call.
I eventually got a call back from a manager who was unable to confirm exactly why the claim had been rejected but said it was all in the report however I would need to get this from Wessex Garages (The dealer I bought the car from).
Fair enough so I got on to them to get the report which several days later was emailed to me. Basically the engineer (From a company called Millbank) had stated that the damage to the engine was not consistent with the parts that had failed i.e. there was no scoring on the bore from the damaged rings nor was there any evidence of metal fragments in the sump. This was a complete lie as David had already stated otherwise. The report concluded that the parts the engineer examined were not from the same engine! I added some comments questioning the lack of detail and sent it to David who did the same, this was then passed back to Autoprotect.
After a few days of waiting and getting nowhere with Autoprotect I got fed up so decided to track down a contact number for Millbank and see what the hold up was. I spoke to a lady who seemed to be under the impression I was calling from Autoprotect (I didnt bother to correct her at this point) she stated that the report had been "adjusted" as requested and sent back to Autoprotect.
A few days later I receive a letter containing the adjusted report. This now goes into more detail and states that the ring failure could have only been caused by detonation because I had been using low octane fuel!! I have never put anything lower than 99RON in that car. He also states that the damage to the pick up pipe was progressive but it should have caused complete starvation. I find it highly suspicious that the engineer effectively rewrote his report based on mine and Davids comments and that so much detail was left out of the original report.
At this point after lots of going back and forth with Autoprotect they agreed to cover the cost of the turbo as there was no way to argue it was anything other than sudden mechanical failure.
By this time we were well into February and I comissioned an independent report on the engine to be carried out by Dekra. They confirmed that the failed parts were caused by defects / production faults (They even included pictures - one clearly shows the cracked ring matching the scoring on the bore)!
Autoprotect wrote to me in response saying that they did not cover parts that were subject to manufacturer recalls so the claim was still denied however they would offer me and additional £500 on top of the turbo claim. This was a bit confusing as neither reports made mention of recalls so I contaced IM group who confirmed there were no recalls on my car and they even contacted Autoprotect on my behalf to inform them.
At this point I have heard nothing back from Autoprotect. I received an email from Wessex Garages this morning stating that this had been escelated with their management so am waiting for a response.
Nearly 4 months and still ongoing... At least I have the car back and can enjoy it albeit with a large credit card bill that needs settling.
27 March 2012, 02:12 PM
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Forgot to mention. I sought legal advice and was advised to report this to my finance company (Black Horse) as well as they could well be liable as under the sale of goods act the car was not sold fit for purpose. They are currently investigating the issue as well and want to send yet another engineer to inspect the components removed from the engine. Thankfully David still has these to hand.
hope you get everything sorted out!!
27 March 2012, 03:21 PM
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Sounds like its been a real PIA with the warranty company.
At least you've got the car back on the road now and can use it properly.
What was the solution for the oil pickup pipe issue ? did APi replace with an original or is there a aftermarket one available ?
At least you've got the car back on the road now and can use it properly.
What was the solution for the oil pickup pipe issue ? did APi replace with an original or is there a aftermarket one available ?
27 March 2012, 03:49 PM
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Autoprotect are a bunch of crooks imo. There whole procedure is designed to put you off claiming.
They insist on having the engine striped at the owner's expense if they refuse the claim (which they will). At main dealer prices that strip down is about £600 plus your car in pieces if / when the claim is refused. All they really needed to do was a compression test and put a camera up the bores to inspect the damage.
Did they ask you to authorize the removal of your ECU (at your expense) so it could be posted to them for examination?
They insist on having the engine striped at the owner's expense if they refuse the claim (which they will). At main dealer prices that strip down is about £600 plus your car in pieces if / when the claim is refused. All they really needed to do was a compression test and put a camera up the bores to inspect the damage.
Did they ask you to authorize the removal of your ECU (at your expense) so it could be posted to them for examination?
27 March 2012, 03:54 PM
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Cheers Nooblygoobly yea they have done a great job I'm so glad to have the car back despite everything else going on.
DT-SPD - Not sure weather the replaced pipe is original or aftermarket sorry will have to check with David.
chopperman - Your exactly right thats exactly what I was told before the work commenced. They didnt ask to have the ECU sent to them fortunately or that would have caused yet more delays.
DT-SPD - Not sure weather the replaced pipe is original or aftermarket sorry will have to check with David.
chopperman - Your exactly right thats exactly what I was told before the work commenced. They didnt ask to have the ECU sent to them fortunately or that would have caused yet more delays.
27 March 2012, 04:26 PM
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The oil pick up pipe we fitted is a standard one. We make sure that it fits properly and is not under tension when the locating bolt is fitted and tightened. It is difficult to tell once one has broken whether it was fitted properly, or whether it was under a strain.
But looking at the evidence and knowing that it is a static part, it is a simple enough conclusion that it broke because it was under strain.
Just by simply fitting it in position and checking if the locating bolt hole lines up with the thread in the block is no big deal and on quite a few it is 1/4 to 1/2 a hole out at initial fit.
QED I think.
David
But looking at the evidence and knowing that it is a static part, it is a simple enough conclusion that it broke because it was under strain.
Just by simply fitting it in position and checking if the locating bolt hole lines up with the thread in the block is no big deal and on quite a few it is 1/4 to 1/2 a hole out at initial fit.
QED I think.
David
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27 March 2012, 05:32 PM
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The oil pick up pipe we fitted is a standard one. We make sure that it fits properly and is not under tension when the locating bolt is fitted and tightened. It is difficult to tell once one has broken whether it was fitted properly, or whether it was under a strain.
But looking at the evidence and knowing that it is a static part, it is a simple enough conclusion that it broke because it was under strain.
Just by simply fitting it in position and checking if the locating bolt hole lines up with the thread in the block is no big deal and on quite a few it is 1/4 to 1/2 a hole out at initial fit.
QED I think.
David
But looking at the evidence and knowing that it is a static part, it is a simple enough conclusion that it broke because it was under strain.
Just by simply fitting it in position and checking if the locating bolt hole lines up with the thread in the block is no big deal and on quite a few it is 1/4 to 1/2 a hole out at initial fit.
QED I think.
David
27 March 2012, 07:12 PM
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No surprise there mate I went through he same **** with autoprotect and just like you went to API and David is a sound guy who knows his stuff my claim went on for over a year and all I got was £1k and I also got the finance with black horse and they were crap even tho I had a 3 year warranty and the engine went pop in the first year. The engine bores were badly scorched and the piston was fcuked but the assessor who came out said it was wear and tear. I feel for you mate please keep us updated
Luke
Luke
27 March 2012, 08:01 PM
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Will do cheers. I have also been writing to Auto Express and keeping them updated as to whats been happening. They seemed quite interested and are looking to do their own investigations. I figure the more people involved the more pressure it puts on the relevant parties to resolve the issue.
I rang Wessex earlier and apparently their General Manager had a meeting with a representative from Black Horse yesterday so hopefully will hear something from them soon.
I rang Wessex earlier and apparently their General Manager had a meeting with a representative from Black Horse yesterday so hopefully will hear something from them soon.
27 March 2012, 09:16 PM
#11
Im guessing the more people you involve in this, the more chance the said company has to redirect the claim/blame.
Im not speaking of experience, but one thing is clear, you have opted for the right outcome to getting the car on the road with future proof in mind. API & Enginetuner are the bees knackers from what I read !
I wish you all the best, and I hope the outcome is a good'en.
Rob
Im not speaking of experience, but one thing is clear, you have opted for the right outcome to getting the car on the road with future proof in mind. API & Enginetuner are the bees knackers from what I read !
I wish you all the best, and I hope the outcome is a good'en.
Rob
27 March 2012, 11:09 PM
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Auto protect do just take your money and run just google them the amount of bad press about them is unreal. Also my local Subaru dealer now uses them for there warranty for cars older then 3 years so I told them good luck selling used cars then.
Last edited by the bear1986; 27 March 2012 at 11:11 PM.
28 March 2012, 12:57 AM
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Let me get this straight ... a warranty company who are happy to collect the monthly payments yet bust their nuts to avoid a payout, who'd have thought it 
TX.
TX.
29 March 2012, 05:07 PM
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Just got an email from Auto Express and they want to feature my case in Watchdog!
They are contacting AutoProtect now to see what they have to say for themselves.
They are contacting AutoProtect now to see what they have to say for themselves.
29 March 2012, 05:51 PM
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29 March 2012, 09:19 PM
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That's great news lets hope this ***** them up big time as they has been ripping people off for far too long. If u need any info from me about my case I'm happy to help.
29 March 2012, 09:55 PM
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I inherited an after market warranty with my very first scoob (STi v5), previous owner had negotiated a deal where full market value was insured rather than a pretty sh*te £1k ceiling on every claim ... I paid £25 to transfer it to my name on exactly the same basis for remainder of the year. When the paperwork arrived they had altered the words to a £1k ceiling 
spent the remainder of the year trying to get them to change it back which they never did. I have never used them or any other similar ***** again.
TX.
spent the remainder of the year trying to get them to change it back which they never did. I have never used them or any other similar ***** again.TX.
02 April 2012, 11:59 AM
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Ok had a bit of a result with Black Horse...
They have decided after their inspection that they are liable for the oil pick-up pipe failure so have agreed to cover costs for the pipe, bearings, stud bolts, gaskets and cam belt. As the level of labour is similar to the actual effort of removing the pistons they have also offered to cover the entire cost of the labour as well!
They have stated that they don’t feel that the piston failure would have been apparent when I bought the car nor would it become apparent within a reasonable time of the car being sold so won’t cover that. I am of the same opinion I believe this to be sudden mechanical failure (the rings have physically broken) so this should definitely be classed as a warranty issue.
I have spoken again to Autoprotect and argued that IM group have stated that there were no recalls on my car to which the helpdesk agent replied that the piston ring failure was due to an inherent design fault and was a recallable issue but Subaru would not admit that in public as it would cause severe damage to their reputation – so in essence it is a recall but it isn’t!!
They have decided after their inspection that they are liable for the oil pick-up pipe failure so have agreed to cover costs for the pipe, bearings, stud bolts, gaskets and cam belt. As the level of labour is similar to the actual effort of removing the pistons they have also offered to cover the entire cost of the labour as well!
They have stated that they don’t feel that the piston failure would have been apparent when I bought the car nor would it become apparent within a reasonable time of the car being sold so won’t cover that. I am of the same opinion I believe this to be sudden mechanical failure (the rings have physically broken) so this should definitely be classed as a warranty issue.
I have spoken again to Autoprotect and argued that IM group have stated that there were no recalls on my car to which the helpdesk agent replied that the piston ring failure was due to an inherent design fault and was a recallable issue but Subaru would not admit that in public as it would cause severe damage to their reputation – so in essence it is a recall but it isn’t!!
02 April 2012, 01:33 PM
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Ok had a bit of a result with Black Horse...
They have decided after their inspection that they are liable for the oil pick-up pipe failure so have agreed to cover costs for the pipe, bearings, stud bolts, gaskets and cam belt. As the level of labour is similar to the actual effort of removing the pistons they have also offered to cover the entire cost of the labour as well!
They have stated that they don’t feel that the piston failure would have been apparent when I bought the car nor would it become apparent within a reasonable time of the car being sold so won’t cover that. I am of the same opinion I believe this to be sudden mechanical failure (the rings have physically broken) so this should definitely be classed as a warranty issue.
I have spoken again to Autoprotect and argued that IM group have stated that there were no recalls on my car to which the helpdesk agent replied that the piston ring failure was due to an inherent design fault and was a recallable issue but Subaru would not admit that in public as it would cause severe damage to their reputation – so in essence it is a recall but it isn’t!!
They have decided after their inspection that they are liable for the oil pick-up pipe failure so have agreed to cover costs for the pipe, bearings, stud bolts, gaskets and cam belt. As the level of labour is similar to the actual effort of removing the pistons they have also offered to cover the entire cost of the labour as well!
They have stated that they don’t feel that the piston failure would have been apparent when I bought the car nor would it become apparent within a reasonable time of the car being sold so won’t cover that. I am of the same opinion I believe this to be sudden mechanical failure (the rings have physically broken) so this should definitely be classed as a warranty issue.
I have spoken again to Autoprotect and argued that IM group have stated that there were no recalls on my car to which the helpdesk agent replied that the piston ring failure was due to an inherent design fault and was a recallable issue but Subaru would not admit that in public as it would cause severe damage to their reputation – so in essence it is a recall but it isn’t!!
16 April 2012, 05:13 PM
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Hi Guys
Sorry for the lack of updates - been a hectic few weeks..
Went back to API last Wednesday and had the car properly mapped. All i can say is WOW! - even now I still cant get used to how well the car pulls, as soon as the turbo starts spooling it just goes and goes right up to the redline then change gear and do it again... and again and again until I remember to look at the speedo!
The guys also swapped out the standard suspension with pink STI springs and dampers - I believe David said Type RA setup but cant remember for sure. Anyways whatever it is its a serious upgrade to what was on there before. The car is lower but not stupidly low and she same goes for the ride firmness - it all feels just right. Driving back home that night I constantly had to back off to stop myself getting into silly speeds!
Had some progress on the warranty front too. Apparently Autoprotect have now agreed to pay out in full for the claim (no doubt peursuaded by Auto Express intervention and also Motor Codes - a dispute resolution company reccomended to me by Auto Express). I havent had any official communication from them or the dealer about this. I did phone Autoprotect and spoke to their helpdesk staff who apparently are unable to give me any information over the phone and advised me to wait for a letter. Not quite sure how long that will take but hopefully not too long as I have the repair bill sitting on my credit card charging me interest.
Sorry for the lack of updates - been a hectic few weeks..
Went back to API last Wednesday and had the car properly mapped. All i can say is WOW! - even now I still cant get used to how well the car pulls, as soon as the turbo starts spooling it just goes and goes right up to the redline then change gear and do it again... and again and again until I remember to look at the speedo!
The guys also swapped out the standard suspension with pink STI springs and dampers - I believe David said Type RA setup but cant remember for sure. Anyways whatever it is its a serious upgrade to what was on there before. The car is lower but not stupidly low and she same goes for the ride firmness - it all feels just right. Driving back home that night I constantly had to back off to stop myself getting into silly speeds!
Had some progress on the warranty front too. Apparently Autoprotect have now agreed to pay out in full for the claim (no doubt peursuaded by Auto Express intervention and also Motor Codes - a dispute resolution company reccomended to me by Auto Express). I havent had any official communication from them or the dealer about this. I did phone Autoprotect and spoke to their helpdesk staff who apparently are unable to give me any information over the phone and advised me to wait for a letter. Not quite sure how long that will take but hopefully not too long as I have the repair bill sitting on my credit card charging me interest.
16 April 2012, 05:20 PM
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Hi Guys
Sorry for the lack of updates - been a hectic few weeks..
Went back to API last Wednesday and had the car properly mapped. All i can say is WOW! - even now I still cant get used to how well the car pulls, as soon as the turbo starts spooling it just goes and goes right up to the redline then change gear and do it again... and again and again until I remember to look at the speedo!
The guys also swapped out the standard suspension with pink STI springs and dampers - I believe David said Type RA setup but cant remember for sure. Anyways whatever it is its a serious upgrade to what was on there before. The car is lower but not stupidly low and she same goes for the ride firmness - it all feels just right. Driving back home that night I constantly had to back off to stop myself getting into silly speeds!
Had some progress on the warranty front too. Apparently Autoprotect have now agreed to pay out in full for the claim (no doubt peursuaded by Auto Express intervention and also Motor Codes - a dispute resolution company reccomended to me by Auto Express). I havent had any official communication from them or the dealer about this. I did phone Autoprotect and spoke to their helpdesk staff who apparently are unable to give me any information over the phone and advised me to wait for a letter. Not quite sure how long that will take but hopefully not too long as I have the repair bill sitting on my credit card charging me interest.
Sorry for the lack of updates - been a hectic few weeks..
Went back to API last Wednesday and had the car properly mapped. All i can say is WOW! - even now I still cant get used to how well the car pulls, as soon as the turbo starts spooling it just goes and goes right up to the redline then change gear and do it again... and again and again until I remember to look at the speedo!
The guys also swapped out the standard suspension with pink STI springs and dampers - I believe David said Type RA setup but cant remember for sure. Anyways whatever it is its a serious upgrade to what was on there before. The car is lower but not stupidly low and she same goes for the ride firmness - it all feels just right. Driving back home that night I constantly had to back off to stop myself getting into silly speeds!
Had some progress on the warranty front too. Apparently Autoprotect have now agreed to pay out in full for the claim (no doubt peursuaded by Auto Express intervention and also Motor Codes - a dispute resolution company reccomended to me by Auto Express). I havent had any official communication from them or the dealer about this. I did phone Autoprotect and spoke to their helpdesk staff who apparently are unable to give me any information over the phone and advised me to wait for a letter. Not quite sure how long that will take but hopefully not too long as I have the repair bill sitting on my credit card charging me interest.
I would still have liked to have seen these sharks on watchdog though.
16 April 2012, 05:26 PM
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Auto Express will still feature them in the Watchdog article although not everything will be in the story as they are limited to 400 words I believe. The main focus around the story will be the argument over the pistons with Autoprotect originally trying to tell me they wouldnt cover them as it should have been a manufacturer recall.
16 April 2012, 06:29 PM
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The oil pick up pipe we fitted is a standard one. We make sure that it fits properly and is not under tension when the locating bolt is fitted and tightened. It is difficult to tell once one has broken whether it was fitted properly, or whether it was under a strain.
But looking at the evidence and knowing that it is a static part, it is a simple enough conclusion that it broke because it was under strain.
Just by simply fitting it in position and checking if the locating bolt hole lines up with the thread in the block is no big deal and on quite a few it is 1/4 to 1/2 a hole out at initial fit.
QED I think.
David
But looking at the evidence and knowing that it is a static part, it is a simple enough conclusion that it broke because it was under strain.
Just by simply fitting it in position and checking if the locating bolt hole lines up with the thread in the block is no big deal and on quite a few it is 1/4 to 1/2 a hole out at initial fit.
QED I think.
David