(ALSO POSTED IN LIGHTING FORUM)

On 15 August 2000 I spent £631.37 with Graham Goode on 2 x PIAA driving lamp kits, plus brackets and Super White headlamp bulbs. I fitted the lamps plus headlamp bulbs myself around the end of August to our two MY00 cars, which were both less than a month old.

One of the H4 headlamp bulbs failed in Carolyn’s car on 20 December. I called Graham Goode and they said return it, which I did on 30 December. I then heard nothing from them.

Early in January the second headlamp bulb failed in Carolyn’s car. I wrote to Graham Goode on 14 January and returned this bulb also. Three weeks passed and they had ignored both letters.

On 04 February I emailed Graham Goode. Lee Wileman responded the next day and said “Sorry we haven’t contacted you but yes the matter is in hand we have returned them to PIAA but we may have a problem as they were out of their warranty period”.

They ignored me again.

On Friday 02 March one of the H3 driving lamp bulbs on my car failed. I sent Graham Goode the following email the same day:

QUOTE
Today I have had one of my H3 120w bulbs fail (in our other Impreza to the EWC1 failures), bought at the same time. I shall be sending this back to you also.

This is unbelievable and utterly inexcusable.

PIAA are selling probably the most expensive bulbs in the world and they do not last any time whatsoever.

I am not particularly interested in what PIAA say. My contract is with you the retailer, not the manufacturer. Whether they are or are not in warranty is also irrelevant.

Under the Sale and Supply of Goods and Services Act the goods have to be fit for the purpose and expensive bulbs that fail after a few months are not fit for the purpose. When I have sent the third bulb back if you do not agree to replace them I shall issue a summons in my local county court.

I have chosen not to splash this over Scoobynet (4000 members) yet but if it is not resolved satisfactorarily I shall have no hesitation in doing so.
UNQUOTE


The following day Graham Goode himself replied:
QUOTE
I am sorry to hear that you have had problems with your PIAA bulbs purchased from us, If you have not already sent the bulb back please do so and mark it for my attention. I would hope there is an explanation for the failures that we can identify for you.
UNQUOTE


I sent the H3 bulb back on 13 March, with the following covering letter:
QUOTE
I refer to our recent email exchange regarding my third PIAA bulb failure. I am returning the bulb herewith.

Proof of original purchase is per my letters of 30/12/2000 and 14/01/2001.

As mentioned I am not interested in PIAA’s warranty, my approach is my rights under the Sale and Supply of Goods and Services Act, which state the product must be fit for the purpose, and clearly they are not. My contract is also with you the retailer, not PIAA.

Since nearly three months has passed since I first wrote to you I would like this resolved within the next fourteen days, i.e. either the bulbs replaced or a full refund.
UNQUOTE


Fourteen days passed and Graham Goode ignored me again. I sent the following email on 28 March:
QUOTE
I presume you are in receipt of the third bulb I returned with my letter of 13 March. In my letter I said I would give you 14 days for a full refund or replacement of the bulbs.

The 14 days expired yesterday and I have heard nothing from you.

It has now been three months since I first wrote. I am not prepared to let this go any longer.

If I do not hear by close of business on Friday that you are either refunding my money or replacing the bulbs, I shall post the full story on Scoobynet (where a lot of your custom derives from). Nothing libellious, just the truth, which is fairly unsatisfactory. I shall keep returning it to the top of the forum until I get replacement or refund.

I am sorry to have to do this, but three months is long enough.
UNQUOTE


On 29 March Graham Goode replied:
QUOTE
Sorry about the delay there is a letter in the post to you today.
UNQUOTE


Graham Goode’s letter said:
QUOTE
I am sorry about the delay getting back to you, the bulb had been passed to me but I completely forgot about it until I received your email.

Having carefully inspected the bulb I note that the glass portion of the bulb has turned grey, this indicates low voltage as stated on our “trouble shooter list enclosed”. Therefore I strongly suggest you check out the wiring particularly the connectors on the back of the bulbs. As a gesture of goodwill I am prepared to supply you another bulb at 50% discount, if this is of interest to you please get back to me.
UNQUOTE


I replied on 31 March:
QUOTE
I am in receipt of your letter of 29 March.

This is totally unacceptable. You mention the "bulb" in the singular (the one you "forgot" about - I can see how much thought and priority this was given) so I presume this was the H3 one I returned last.

What about the two previous H4 bulbs I returned to you (my letters of 30/12/00 and 14/01/01)?

Dealing with the H3 bulb first, this was as fitted to the lamps as supplied by you. I have not touched them. So, if there is a fault with the connectors on the back of the bulb then it is a manufacturing or assembly fault.

I spent £631.37 with you in one go. I do not feel you have dealt with these issues with any urgency (I first wrote to you three months ago) or commitment. I need not remind you of where this stands legally with what is clearly a product that is not fit for the purpose.

I have expended a great deal of my time (and thus money) over the last three months and got nowhere. I am not going to do this any longer. Having just telephoned, I understand you will be in today and will pick up your emails.

If you do not agree to give me a full refund or replacement for all three bulbs by 6pm today then I shall post the whole sorry story on Scoobynet (over 5000 members plus many many more read it), plus the Mitsubishi, RSOC, EVO forums and any others I think of. I will keep returning it to the top of the threads so everyone reads it. There is a current thread on Scoobynet regarding persistent PIAA bulb failures and although I am itching to reply to it I have resisted so far. This will change at 6pm. All these people can them make up their minds if they want to do business with you. I shall also go over your head and make my complaints made clear to PIAA direct.

I am sorry, but the outcome of this is up to you.
UNQUOTE


Graham Goode ignored me again. On 01 April I sent the following:
QUOTE
Re my email yesterday, I have extended the deadline of posting on Scoobynet etc until Monday evening, ONLY out of courtesy to you in case you did not pick up your emails yesterday.

There will be no further extensions.
UNQUOTE


Since then, nothing…….

I THINK THIS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.



[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 02 April 2001).]

 

Dave,

QUOTE
good on ya, you have given them more than adequate time to resolve this
UNQUOTE



To be honest, if I was purchasing this type of stuff I would go to scoobysport. I cant remember how many times I have seen Pete C say he would send replacement bulbs to people who have had problems with bulbs.
In the 21st century customer service is going to take over from price competition IMHO.

robski

 

I think you have been more than fair with this supplier, small claims would be a great way to go, I do hope you are able to resolve the problem. I think you are right to publish on the web, I for one will not use the srvices of this supplier

 

I have to agree that the bulbs or the total package are crap, I have a bulb go every three months or so. They hardly ever get used as the covers are on most of the time and I dont flash with my headlights. I think I have had five bulbs and a maximum of 30 minutes total with the PIAA lights on. The worst spent money on my car.

I purchased the kit new with the car from Leicester main dealer.

[This message has been edited by Mr Leigh (edited 02 April 2001).]

 

Dave

It does sound like you have been ignored, and this is not a good thing.

I would be unhappy, however, if you abused scoobynet by bringing this post up to the top of the page other than to legitimately reply to a question or update us as to a new situation.

It is good to let us all know that this has happened though as customer service is so important to the majority of us.

I do think the legal approach you suggested would be a better way to go though.

I truly hope they sort it out as I have had good experiences of them lately.

All the best

Simon

 

Jeeps - how utterly unacceptable.
I will be steering clear of them from now on.
Hope you get it sorted.....

Gastro

 

I had a similar problem with PIAA Superwhite bulbs. I had one blow after roughly three months. I returned it direct to PIAA rather than going back through the supplier. To be honest they were very good about it. The only thing that annoyed me was that they only replaced one bulb, which as you know isn't a great idea as the other one has a tendancy to blow shortly afterwards. I did point this out to PIAA, but they said it should be OK - however a week later, the other blew .

After more phonecalls / emails, two new bulbs arrived. One has since blown again and I have now given up on them. I use the Philips VisionPlus bulbs now, which are just as good and only a third of the price.

I do find it hard for a firm like PIAA to justify selling some of the most expensive bulbs and then only provide a three month warranty period - pile of crap really. That aside the treatment that Dave has had is unacceptable - I await GGR's reply with interest....

Chris

 

Dave m8,

It's nothing to do with the quality of the kit you've bought - you've made the classic mistake of fitting the PIAA lights before fitting gold wheels......

Hope you get it sorted though

Kevin.

 

I heard the PIAA's were unreliable, we look after the local police scoobs and they're in for bulbs all the time, that's aswell prodrive pads, bridgestones.....

To feel you are being ignored is bad, to know you're being ignored is worse but for the guy to just come out and say he forgot is just disgusting customer service!

I don't think I can afford to shop at GGR but after the things I've just read I won't be saving up!!!

I hope you get it sorted.

Bob

 

Extracted from PIAA Website

<B>Why 90 days warranty & not lifetime?</B>
Bulbs are warranted for 90 days from the date of purchase from defects in workmanship and materials under normal use.
PIAA's 90 day warranty for bulbs is one of the best in the industry.
This Limited Warranty specifically excludes defects resulting from misuse, abuse, neglect, alteration, modification, improper installation, unauthorized repairs, submersion, theft, vehicle crash, or
by any other type of impact.
While there are many external elements a bulb is subjected to in it's lifetime, proper care in the installation process should provide you a considerable usage under normal use.

<B>Are my bulbs covered under warranty?</B>
All PIAA bulbs are warranted for 90 days from the date of purchase from defects in workmanship and materials under normal use.


<B>This is the third bulb to blow out in four months; why does this keep
happening?</B>
Bulb failures caused by voltage surges have become more common as new vehicles have placed greater demands on factory electrical systems.
<B>The main lamp ground wire must be connected to the battery negative terminal or to a cable leading to it.</B>
If a voltage surge occurs, the bulb will look like it was struck by lightning! The
metal base & glass will be burnt or the filament will blow up! Refer to the
Trouble Shooting section of this web site for more information. "www.piaa.com"



[This message has been edited by ndouglass (edited 03 April 2001).]

 

Ignoring the slow responses for now, but have you tested the voltage at the back of the buld with all the lights on (and your normal accesories, cooling fan, AC, etc.)?

Steve

 

Sorry to hear you're getting the run around Dave...I know how you feel...Sucks dont it

 

Bad news Dave, sorry to hear about that mate, Ive always found GGR to be impeccable with their service to me, I think its because I only deal with 1 source there (Wayne) who is always spot on for me.

I always use the phone and NEVER NEVER Email any company as Email is the last thing I check and I think that most other companies would be the same if the phone is always ringing as at GGR it always is.

Hope it all gets sorted soon mate.

Harj...

 

Sorry to hear such things.

I've kinda been saving up for AP 330mm brakes, Gp.A dump valve and induction kit from GGR, but this got me very vorried. I suppose I'll spend my money elswhere.... Too bad for GGR as that was probably close to £1500 those 3 PIAA bulbs cost them.

It seems like they don't think about such things...

 

Sigmud I don't think GGR would mess around with AP Kits as they keep 20 in stock unlike most others who have to order them, I know of 12 people on this BBS who have had their kits and are all happy just as I am with their service and parts.

When ever I want something I call them day before and its with me the day after, absolutely no problems with them. I never email them though which could be the major problem.

Harj...

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by tokyo_steve:
<B>Ignoring the slow responses for now, but have you tested the voltage at the back of the buld with all the lights on (and your normal accesories, cooling fan, AC, etc.)?

Steve[/quote]

Steve
The cars were only four weeks old when the lamps and bulbs were fitted. The PIAA loom and relay supplied were used. Good earth connections to bare metal were made and any additional wiring used was heavier gauge than PIAA's. All wiring joints were made using spades and bullets. I did the install myself. The only other option is that the car had faulty wiring when it left the factory, or there is a problem with the bulbs........

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by webmaster:
<B>Dave

It does sound like you have been ignored, and this is not a good thing.

I would be unhappy, however, if you abused scoobynet by bringing this post up to the top of the page other than to legitimately reply to a question or update us as to a new situation.

It is good to let us all know that this has happened though as customer service is so important to the majority of us.

I do think the legal approach you suggested would be a better way to go though.

I truly hope they sort it out as I have had good experiences of them lately.

All the best

Simon[/quote]


Simon
Ignoring my Muppet tendencies which are well known, I have no desire to abuse Scoobynet which is why I emailed you and Richie as soon as I made the post last night to ask if you were ok with it. I had Scoobynet very much at the forefront. I have no desire to drag Scoobynet into the mire just for my own self gratification. It is also why I have only reported the facts and quotes and deliberately not added any comments of my own. It is thus not libellious in any way but a statement of fact.

I take your point about bringing the thread to the top, I have thus made this post directly after my reply to Steve rather than wait until it drops down the list.

If at any time you are concerned this thread may damage Scoobynet in any way, delete it.

Regards

Dave

 

Edit by webmaster

[This message has been edited by webmaster (edited 03 April 2001).]

 

Thanks for your informative comment Luke!

I've been using PIAA's for close to three years (purchased from Prodrive) and IMHO they are fantastic! I've had to replace both bulbs (one blows a week later) a total of twice which have been bought from GGR. I use them a great deal for night time driving and although you can be unfortunate and have a bulb blow quickly..(can also be down to vibrations)...it shouldn't reflect on the quality of the PIAA kit as a whole.

As for GGR...I've used them for years and their customer service and speed of response is usually excellent.

Again, I'm not saying that this is acceptable for D T-S but I would just like to point out that it isn't the norm for GGR so it wouldn't be fair for them to be portrayed as such in the greater scheme of things.

Good luck with your bulbs Dave, I hope it gets sorted out quickly.

Rgds
Nito

[This message has been edited by NITO (edited 03 April 2001).]

 

Dave
Sorry to hear about your problems, even more sorry to see how badly you have been treated.
IMHO
This is inexcusable, ihow often have i had the 'if we ignore him he may get bored and go away' approach tried on me - At best bad business at worst dishonest. Hey if this is not the case then this is how it looks to me - a potential customer.

Nice to see bad things as well as good things written here - freedom of speech is a good thing, we all have the right to choose who we deal with and who we spend our hard earned cash with.

Most suppliers offer goods prices are similar if not the same in cost, i will always buy from people i trust and who give good service, i do not mind paying a small premium and not always going for the cheapest option - the service and back up mean more to me. No, i do not have money to burn, i am just careful who i spend it with.

I hope that people who get bad 'press' take it as a wake up call and improve their lot. There are a lot of companies out there competeing for the same customers.

For those who get good press - credit where credit is due and don't rest on your laurels.


I hope (and am sure) that you get satisfaction from GGR.

Paul

[This message has been edited by Paul Habgood (edited 03 April 2001).]

 

I must say, that I was in the market for some PIAA driving lights but now.........?? CIBIES........???????
Also, as Harj continually tends to point out , I haven't had any probs with GGR, when dealing directly with Wayne via telephone.

However, Nito, your comment, and I quote
"I'm not saying that this is acceptable for D T-S but I would just like to point out that it isn't the norm for GGR so it wouldn't be fair for them to be portrayed as such in the greater scheme of things."
This is not a dig at you directly Nito, but surely it's the little thing's that count?
I think it IS fair to portray GGR so, because every single customer in this day and age is important as the next. Big company attitudes to simply ignore one, because there is always another customer round the corner, is not the right attitude. Every customer, no matter how small the order, should be treated the same. THIS SHOULD BE THE NORM !. If GGR had taken a couple of weeks, then this may have been acceptable, but all that time.....TUT, TUT. This is not acceptable!
However Nito, I am sure you would not treat you customer base such as this .

Cheers, Jacko.

 

I dont drive that much at night, because my back goes hairy and my teeth grow longer.

I would call them Dave, like Harj does. I know that he has bought a great deal of gear off of them and he is well happy with the service. Then perhaps this could be put to bed. E-mail is a terrible way of people sometimes seeming rude (from a companies perspective) in replies, un-less the reply is as much and more than would be said in a phone call.

Buzz em up Dave and sort it over the blower, quick easy and normally the best way

Ronnie

 

Wow, how typical. It's not our bulbs or the supplied kit, it's your car!

Blimey you should tell Subaru they are being bad mouthed on Scoobynet.

Then again, perhaps not, they probably already know! What is it with these cars? I've replaced both sidelight bulbs in less than 12 months. It's those little things that count!

I'm sure they'll sort you out, but now you're in the human nature confrontation zone, you will be viewed as a luddite pain in the ****. Wrong I know, but they will feel in a no win situation now they are deep in the hole they dug themselves.

From what I've read these are joke bulbs and it would appear you are right, they're not fit for the purpose intended. Maybe GGR are conversing to this effect with the manufacturer who are causing them so much grief. Be nice if they told you that though.

Good luck.

 

Jacko,

"it's the little thing's that count?
I think it IS fair to portray GGR so, because every single customer in this day and age is important as the next. Big company attitudes to simply ignore one, because there is always another customer round the corner, is not the right attitude. Every customer, no matter how small the order, should be treated the same. THIS SHOULD BE THE NORM !."

I agree 100% with what you say. I think you may have misread my comment. The way DTS has been treated is unsatisfactory and should be sorted, but what I am trying to put across is that this is in no way their typical attitude or response. The experience Dave has had is very poor (could possibly be attributed to a breakdown of communication in larger companies and the fact that not everyone dealing knows the full details!) and luckily unusual (let's hope it gets sorted), however it's not fair either for potential customers to be put off with the assumption that they have a sort of throwaway attitude since in over 4 yrs of dealing with GGR and many others who I know that deal with them this has never been the case and they have been excellent in dealing with all enquiries large or small.

It's good that Dave lets people know of his experience (if anything so that ggr can take the necessary steps to correct it and to hopefully sort out this frustrating problem) but as other responses have shown, this is not typical of GGR attitude thankfully which is why I for one remain a very satisfied customer.

Regards
Nito

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles Dave

I cant afford to use GGR

I have no idea how much the bulbs are but I have come across this article while surfing dont know if its of any interest whatsoever but here goes:-

It has been reported that changing from Halfords 'blue' bulbs to Osram Bilux Super H4 (a xenon charged bulb) will provide an immediate improvement. The Osram bulbs came out top in a bulb test in Auto Express earlier in the year, and the 'blue' bulbs were universally panned). They cost about £18 for the pair from Demon Tweeks, and are similar to the hugely expensive PIAA bulbs in terms of technology and light output.

ps. do you think that the light reflected off your partners Gold Wheels may have damaged the bulbs?? - just a thought

Pete

 

again,

makes interesting reading.

rw

 

ndouglass
All perfectly true but irrelevant. Any warranty is overridden by the Sale of Goods Acts (which is why the small print on a product invariably states "does not affect your statutory rights as a consumer" or similar).

Goods have to be of "satisfactory quality" - would you expect it be satisfactory that the world's (probably) most expensive bulbs fail in a few months?

 

NITO.
I have just come out from the dark room. I am now calm again.
I can't help feeling that smaller companies like yours have a more personal touch (no brown nose intended!) and the larger companies do seem on MANY occasion, to have a one lost customer is no real loss attitude a bit like Ford dealerships
As I mentioned previously, Wayne@GGR is more than helpful but it does not excuse the ignorance. Even a simple e-mail/letter/telephone call to DaveT-S saying there is no way he is getting a replacement would be a start...at least you know where you stand!
There is nothing more infuriating than companies that ignore queries/complaints.......................NITO.......NITO are you still there?

cheers, Jacko (court jester)

 

Er..oops...Jacko

You have mail !!

 

So the "Web Master" decided my view on this matter was too hot !!
But lets be serious about this

*** charges mega bucks for a bulb that is not as good as claimed.If I paid this money and they lasted such a short time. I would be well unhappy.Would you accept Brake pads or Oil lasting an unacceptable amount of time.

As for customer service.I am sure others would agree. They (GG)have not done them selves any favours.