dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Can someone please tell me why a car that cost over £150K to build, is entered by a professional Tuning company that produces and supplies aftermarket parts via the subaru dealer network, turns up with team a liveried motorhome, a handful of liveried cars, their own pit girls, promo team as well as half a dozen mechanics and a pro driver can be classed as f*cking club class in Time Attack ????

Sounds like a back hand promotion deal to ensure a "title" to me.

Which I think is totally disgraceful as lesser cars built, driven and funded by their owners are forced into Club Pro and Pro.

I think its incredibly unfair as I thought Club Class was essentially for cars built at home by enthusiasts that want to have a crack at some form of motorsport.

Rant mode off

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

I am with you on this Daz!

leecalcars

iTrader: (37)

Are you talking about cadwell yesterday Daz ?

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Not specifically Cadwell no.

More the fact that they are in club for the whole season.

They are without doubt a Pro entry and its completely and utterly unfair to the rest of Club not to mention discouraging new comers to the sport who will no doubt think why should I bother entering if they have to compete with a pro team with a £150,000 car.

leecalcars

iTrader: (37)

Well I was at cadwell yesterday for summer in the park and time attack and the pro-r team was there with full set up and an Impreza 320r whit/blue understand totally where you are coming from as this is the route I'm possibly going to take in my own built car.
How can I as a sole competetor compete in club class against a team with thousands behind them it's a farce mate and the organisers need to have a good look at this but I suppose we all have to start somewhere and maybe trying to move up the ranks

wrx287

iTrader: (8)

Does that mean RCM will enter Club Class when they come back aswell. Maybe their "Pro" driver cant live with the big boys

Its the same in Clubman Rallying though. The richest guy wins. Down by me there use to be a clubman event (i;e the home built rally car) then a guy turns up with a Subaru Impreza S14 WRC with full backing from ProdriveSurprise surprise people lost intrest then. Will be the same in club class. Guys arent going to spend hard earned money on preparing a car then turn up to be beaten by a Pro Tuner/Driver combo with money no object.

leecalcars

iTrader: (37)

Exactly wrx287 hit the nail on the head !

chris_wrx

iTrader: (4)

hi just gonna add my two pennies worth i know the team and the guys quite well i know for a fact its not cost 150k pro r are just offering some sponsership. the car is run by a independant garage using its own mechanics/unpaid friends

the motor home is the drivers personal holiday motor

the promo girls and team are all to do with pro r and having nothing to do with the team bar offering thier support

as for the pro driver did any one who was there see his two offs????

and though he did win his class he was slower than a fwd crx ??

mathersuk

In Reply to you post on both ScoobyNet and others .

I felt it was only fair that i joined up and added some facts to the current post .

Like many competitors in time attack i have a title sponsor as a long established Subaru Dealer i obviously went to Subaru Parts with their new aftermarket venture . They have very generously donated wheels and brakes and other items from their Pro R road range .
My car was purchased from Prodrive as a STOCK JDM sti for £17000 and to date we have spent approx £35K on engine suspension and body work mods so a total of £52,000 . At the race events Subaru / Pro R are in attendance to support the SIDC owners club and promote their aftermarket business , the fact that they bring pit girls etc is in line with all other companies at many of the TA events.
In Club Class the current horse power stakes are actually like this

Andrew Barbour Evo V5RS 730 BHP
Eric Holmes Evo V6 660BHP
Simon Nutter Evo V5 630BHP
Marc Kemp EVo V8 600BHP
Jon Mathers ( Me) Subaru Impreza 575 BHP

It's nice to be called a Pro Drive and i really appreciate your positive comments unfortunately the only Pro racing i have ever done is representing Team GB in Jet Skiing for 6 years in the 1990's.

If you could take the time to look at the TSL timing data you will see that i never top any of the speed traps by quite some way but with the control tyre being a road Pirelli we have managed to concentrate on handling rather than expensive horsepower.

So just to finish up no pro driver , no unlimited budget just a Subaru dealer and his tuner mate going racing . Sorry the truth isn't as controversial as the fiction .

Jon Mathers 333

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

welcome to scoobynet

any chance of some of those free wheels? just tell em they broke

RA Dunk

This is entry level club class?

Shakes head in disbelief.

If the above figures are corrrect just WTF is the point in Pro and club Pro classes? I thought those classes were to seperate the monster BHP builds/tuners from the lower end of the scale cars.

Time Attack should really be giving their rules (or lack of them) a looking at, it's hardly giving people with lesser specced cars much incenative to join is it.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Jon thanks for posting.

Please dont think that this is any kind of attack on you as that's not the case but even your own words have illustrated my point nicely.

By your own admission you're a Subaru dealer, with backing from an after market parts supplier wanting to sell their parts through the Subaru dealer network.

You cannot seriously suggest that you shouldn't atleast be in Club pro as a bare minimum?

The whole reason I've posted this is because an entry in club class is incredibly unfair to those in the class who havent the backing that you have.

I'd love to have a crack at this with my 600bhp Classic but I really cant see the point if I'm up against what is essentially a team fully backed by a subaru dealer AND a tuning parts manufacturer/ supplier.

You tell me how that's fair to a bloke that's built his car on a drive way by himself and has to pay for every last part of the car never mind the entry fees! I'm not just talking about me here. I'm referring to what the club class was originally intended for.

As I said earlier Club Pro as a bare minimum would be more appropriate.

As highlighted above perhaps its the organisers to blame. Its just really unfair to those who would like to have a go at the sport. Club class really should be about Entry level cars.

I'm sure you see the point I'm making here.

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

have to say i agree. i sprint mine its standard ish well 360bhp. Id love to enter into something different and give it a go. But for those power levels at club class which as said is entry level in the series it would be pointless me even turning up

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

From what you say you are hardly just another normal competitor.

Now i know you don't make the rules, so it's not your fault.

BUT and you will notice it's a big but, a subaru dealer against joe blogs built in the garden shed engine is hardly a level playing field.


In my and i would assume many others opinion you are more than a clubman class outfit.

And the op's rant is somewhat understandable given the circumstances.

BUT another big one, i don't blame you for that, and as said above Time Attack need to take a very serious look at their classifications.

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE

as for the pro driver did any one who was there see his two offs????

and though he did win his class he was slower than a fwd crx ??[/QUOTE]




What!? F**K that, not going to buy Pro R stuff now.


Just kidding.

Ryan@Indigo-GT

iTrader: (4)

I completely understand where the op is coming from, we're supporting a car that we've built in this years Time Attack.

Strictly speaking I don't think there are enough classes in Time Attack and that's the issue, granted the car we've built is currently running around the 550bhp mark but if we got bumped up to Pro Class, then we'd be up against our good friends at Wallace with their 1000bhp Evo.

Ideally there should be three levels but I'm not sure there are enough participants to warrant that

On the other hand if you look at where Time Attack stems from, racing at the Tsukuba Circuit, it was never about owner built cars, it was about independent tuning companies developing road cars into track monsters to prove who the best tuning company is

RA Dunk

What's the point in more classes if people won't use the ones that are already in place?

IMO anything under 450- 500 stays in club, over 500-550 goes into club pro, (regardless if it's a tuner or private entry) anything over 700-750 goes into pro (regardless if it's a tuner or private entry).

I don't think a private entry with 600BHP should go into club class either, thats hardly fair for Joe Blogs with 400BHP.

Thats in a perfect world though, Being honest there is no easy way to work out the rules as there is just too much variations involved.

scoobyboy

so whats stopping joe bloggs going out and getting backing then?

RA Dunk

Backing isn't easy to come by TBH. Maybe he (Joe Blogs) is using his daily driver and dosent want it, I know quite a few in club class were doing this a while ago, don't know if it's still the same now though.

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

That would be me. I dont or wouldnt want backing from anyone if i entered the series. Its my everyday car with a few tweaks and i want to keep it that way. Id just like or want a level playing field

stuart69

iTrader: (1)

Its all about the money iam affraid
That why the numbers competing has dropped so much,it costs 2 grand an event or there abouts!

Rich mans game imo


Iam with Daz on this one

ps...were are the results from yesturday

Ryan@Indigo-GT

iTrader: (4)

Classifying cars purely on power can't work, the fairest way is through power to weight ratio. There's a couple of VX220's racing in club, they're not massive on power but they still go bloody well and I've seen what a tuned one can do, 340bhp in a VX220 absolutely demolished an Evo I know to be 420bhp

RA Dunk

It might not be perfect but it would be a hell of a big improvement over what we have now 700+ against little over 300 in club class!

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Its easy to turn the power down and fudge the figures.

As for just going out and getting the backing if only it were that easy. I've tried!!

mikeyw

A level playing field in motorsport will always be difficult, unless the rules of the competition dictate it to be so, so I think it is unfair to pick on individuals or teams involved here. They will be participating in the events because first and foremost they love driving, and they love their cars.

I'm sure that the driver of the team being singled out on this post loves cars and loves driving too. And he is not a professional driver (but clearly has ability given his results). Yes, it is clear the team are able to leverage contacts and expertise, but who would not do so if they were able, but even in their position I would imagine that it is very hard to get backing. Whilst there are some valid points of the OP, there are factual innacuracies, and some pettiness there too, which is shame as it spoils the start of a decent debate - but this is a debate to be had with the Time Attack organisers - the teams dont make the rules, they just leverage what they can to do the best they can and compete in races where they are allowed to.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Completely agree

I'd love to enter a couple of rounds of Time Attack, but i'm not really up for becoming a mobile chicane for a 600+bhp race car.

I've noticed the entry numbers are down this year..... why not introduce a 'road class' for car less than 450bhp?

Surely the entry numbers would increase massively... assuming they don't have to but a set of those Pirelli tyres though.

I'm not knocking Time Attack at all, it's a great series.
I just think there is a large potential there for making it even bigger.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

I thought the idea behind Pro-R (the "company" ) was for mere mortals like me to buy Subaru / IM branded performance products that we could fit to our cars like the PPP packages and not affect the warranty..........

Can I have an STi for £17K please

Shaun

Budgie

iTrader: (4)

I have thought many times about having a go at TA
But have been put off because of the reasons stated above

Itsaboutwinning

Racing is about corner speeds, power to weight and balance not who's got the most graphics on there car or most horse power. Driver ability is also a requirement. And unfortunately if somebody does well, people always jump on the bandwagon stating it's not fair.
I know the team and can say fact! The techs do this unpaid at nights to get the car ready for an event. And at events. They always congratulate other teams when they loose. At brands they helped 2 other teams with there cars. Knock hill the same. With those lads it's about the enjoyment of racing and the best man wins whoever that may be. No body cried about the team after round 1 when they finished 4th. Or round 2 with 3rd. But as soon as they get a couple of wins it's all wrong. Get a grip please

mathersuk

What a great debate , with some real merit and just to add some more .

As some of the replies might suggest I am a real petrol head who happens to have sold Subaru's for over 25 years and been involved with warranty friendly mods for all of that time . I am am incredibly passionate about the Impreza model and have done my best in Time attack to represent the owners Clubs and all Impreza drivers by taking on the much more powerful Mitsubishi Evo's in what was considered a slower and uglier car ( does that count ?) .
I would love to see a stock type class in TA as would most of the fans and would petition for it if there was enough backing from the owner / drivers .

I am sorry that some consider our entry sinister I genuinely thought all scooby fans would be behind us perhaps some of the doubters should come up to the round at Angelsey and see what it's really all about or even better enter , i would gladly help anyone with a Subaru wanting to enter .

Jon Mathers