fmic on a classic uk turbo??
16 April 2011, 11:39 AM
#1
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
fmic on a classic uk turbo??
hi guys i have bought a classic uk turbo on a 1997, standard apart from 17" alloys, dump valve and 3" exhaust with decat, i have bought a front mount intercooler and now been told by a couple people not to put it on as it will kill my scoob, is this true?
16 April 2011, 11:45 AM
#3
Probably.
I think the 97 ecu is one of the ones that can't be remapped, so fitting an FMIC without the remap, given that you ALREADY increased the airflow with your decat, just might kill it.
Ask Harvey Smith, he posts as harvey on here, for advice. He sells FMIC's, (and loads of other stuff), but won't let you buy one if it's going to kill your engine.
Oh, and go back to an OEM dumpvalve too: the VTA ones cause borewash due to overfuelling, and can also lead to early engine failure.
I think the 97 ecu is one of the ones that can't be remapped, so fitting an FMIC without the remap, given that you ALREADY increased the airflow with your decat, just might kill it.
Ask Harvey Smith, he posts as harvey on here, for advice. He sells FMIC's, (and loads of other stuff), but won't let you buy one if it's going to kill your engine.
Oh, and go back to an OEM dumpvalve too: the VTA ones cause borewash due to overfuelling, and can also lead to early engine failure.
16 April 2011, 11:56 AM
#4
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
well i was looking to remap and get a larger turbo in the near future, is this a good idea as i have been told these engines are quite fragile? oh and my car has done 117k if it makes any difference
16 April 2011, 12:39 PM
#7
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
oh yeah another thing thats worried me, near my ecu there is a earth wire that bolts to the ecu bracket, the earth wire has melted and needs replacing, does anyone know what its for?
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16 April 2011, 12:44 PM
#8
Just another of Subaru's many earths.
Question is, WHY did it melt? Try to find out why if you can, could be an indicator of something esle wrong.
What were you doing poking around the ecu, mind? You ARE talking about the one under the carpet, passenger footwell, aren't you?
I'd replace the wire with one of thicker gauge.
Question is, WHY did it melt? Try to find out why if you can, could be an indicator of something esle wrong.
What were you doing poking around the ecu, mind? You ARE talking about the one under the carpet, passenger footwell, aren't you?
I'd replace the wire with one of thicker gauge.
16 April 2011, 03:52 PM
#11
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
17 April 2011, 11:14 AM
#13
1. Is it an earth wire? Identify what the wire is and why it melted. This is worrying.
You need someone that knows what they are doing to assist you on this.
As your avatar does not include your geographic location I cannot recommend anyone in your area.
2. The 97-98 ECU is not mappable and therefore you need an aftermarket ECU as advised by Mervil above.
3. Somewhere after 300 bhp and certainly before 320 bhp you will clearly benefit from an efficient front mount intercooler. Hybrid GT or Hybrid GT2 are both efficient front mount intercoolers with tube and fin cores.
4. If you fit an efficient FMIC you stand to damage your engine ie. pick up a piston in the bore if the car is not mapped properly and this needs to be done very soon after fitting the FMIC and before you drive the car hard.
5. I have seen a lot of young guys throw random bits at their cars like intercoolers, blow off valves, fuel pressure regulators and so on without having a clearly thought out plan and hence have embarked on a major waste of money and sometimes with tragic loss of engine.
6. Decide what you want from your car and if you want to modify it have a proper plan incorporating what is both sensible and practical for your circumstances. Clearly you need to find someone you can trust to assist you with this because of your lack of Subaru knowledge. Once you have the plan, stick to it.
You need someone that knows what they are doing to assist you on this.
As your avatar does not include your geographic location I cannot recommend anyone in your area.
2. The 97-98 ECU is not mappable and therefore you need an aftermarket ECU as advised by Mervil above.
3. Somewhere after 300 bhp and certainly before 320 bhp you will clearly benefit from an efficient front mount intercooler. Hybrid GT or Hybrid GT2 are both efficient front mount intercoolers with tube and fin cores.
4. If you fit an efficient FMIC you stand to damage your engine ie. pick up a piston in the bore if the car is not mapped properly and this needs to be done very soon after fitting the FMIC and before you drive the car hard.
5. I have seen a lot of young guys throw random bits at their cars like intercoolers, blow off valves, fuel pressure regulators and so on without having a clearly thought out plan and hence have embarked on a major waste of money and sometimes with tragic loss of engine.
6. Decide what you want from your car and if you want to modify it have a proper plan incorporating what is both sensible and practical for your circumstances. Clearly you need to find someone you can trust to assist you with this because of your lack of Subaru knowledge. Once you have the plan, stick to it.
17 April 2011, 11:03 PM
#19
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I don't doubt that for a minute, but equally there are lots that have said cheerio well before 100k.
My approach when advising people on tuning (where a bit of a punt in involved) is: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. If the OP couldn't afford to replace the engine IF (and that may be a reasonably big IF) it goes pop, then best to er on the side of caution. If that would be financially viable then go for it!
As Harvey says though, he needs to think about where his power aspirations lie, as that dictates the appropriate spec. Getting a classic to a level where an FMIC would be advisable is not a cheap thing to do: you're looking at bigger blower, injectors, fuel pump, ported headers, exhaust system, FMIC, induction kit etc... and at that stage one also needs to consider uprated brakes, suspension etc... Oh and a gearbox from a 97 scooby would most likely give up at that level.
A classic in the mid 300s is an experience to be had if funds allow though - I speak from 6 years experience!
Ns04
My approach when advising people on tuning (where a bit of a punt in involved) is: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. If the OP couldn't afford to replace the engine IF (and that may be a reasonably big IF) it goes pop, then best to er on the side of caution. If that would be financially viable then go for it!
As Harvey says though, he needs to think about where his power aspirations lie, as that dictates the appropriate spec. Getting a classic to a level where an FMIC would be advisable is not a cheap thing to do: you're looking at bigger blower, injectors, fuel pump, ported headers, exhaust system, FMIC, induction kit etc... and at that stage one also needs to consider uprated brakes, suspension etc... Oh and a gearbox from a 97 scooby would most likely give up at that level.
A classic in the mid 300s is an experience to be had if funds allow though - I speak from 6 years experience!
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 17 April 2011 at 11:05 PM.
18 April 2011, 08:29 AM
#21
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I don't doubt that for a minute, but equally there are lots that have said cheerio well before 100k.
My approach when advising people on tuning (where a bit of a punt in involved) is: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. If the OP couldn't afford to replace the engine IF (and that may be a reasonably big IF) it goes pop, then best to er on the side of caution. If that would be financially viable then go for it!
As Harvey says though, he needs to think about where his power aspirations lie, as that dictates the appropriate spec. Getting a classic to a level where an FMIC would be advisable is not a cheap thing to do: you're looking at bigger blower, injectors, fuel pump, ported headers, exhaust system, FMIC, induction kit etc... and at that stage one also needs to consider uprated brakes, suspension etc... Oh and a gearbox from a 97 scooby would most likely give up at that level.
A classic in the mid 300s is an experience to be had if funds allow though - I speak from 6 years experience!
Ns04
My approach when advising people on tuning (where a bit of a punt in involved) is: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. If the OP couldn't afford to replace the engine IF (and that may be a reasonably big IF) it goes pop, then best to er on the side of caution. If that would be financially viable then go for it!
As Harvey says though, he needs to think about where his power aspirations lie, as that dictates the appropriate spec. Getting a classic to a level where an FMIC would be advisable is not a cheap thing to do: you're looking at bigger blower, injectors, fuel pump, ported headers, exhaust system, FMIC, induction kit etc... and at that stage one also needs to consider uprated brakes, suspension etc... Oh and a gearbox from a 97 scooby would most likely give up at that level.
A classic in the mid 300s is an experience to be had if funds allow though - I speak from 6 years experience!
Ns04
19 April 2011, 09:10 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
21 April 2011, 05:34 PM
#24
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
thanks for all the info guys but i am sending my fmic back as its too much work on a 1997, but is there a top mount from a newer year scoob that would make any difference?
21 April 2011, 09:18 PM
#27
Woops: did you not read the earlier posts about NOT doing that?
We aren't just talking for the sake of it, you run the risk of leaning out the engine by messing with the induction, etc, and the result could be VERY, VERY expensive.
Best NOT to mod these engines unless you can have the map tweaked.
We aren't just talking for the sake of it, you run the risk of leaning out the engine by messing with the induction, etc, and the result could be VERY, VERY expensive.
Best NOT to mod these engines unless you can have the map tweaked.
22 April 2011, 04:09 PM
#29
yes i just want a little more power lol but without having to fork out for a ecu
That in itself is not a problem but please take the time to read through carefully the whole thread and the advice already given.
The 97/98 car cannot be remapped and requires an aftermarket ECU.
If you fit an efficient front mount intercooler, change the induction or even fit a larger/different top mount you will need a remap if the alterations you have made have had a significant influence on your power output. In other words you need a remap.
If the alterations you make achieve your objective of making more power, whether it be induction, front mount or top mount then there is a grave possibility that your engine will need major fuel adjustments and possible ignition changes because the areas of the map in which you will be operating will not have been mapped to your engine requirements. Not only will fuel need to be added but the shape of the map will change because of the considerable difference in the presentation of air to the cylinders.
About the only significant power mod you might get away with without a remap would be on the exhaust side but not the induction side. Eg. full decat exhaust system, ported headers and matched uppipe. After that you need a remap.
