Wrapped headers & up pipe
10 April 2011, 07:34 PM
#1
Wrapped headers & up pipe
As the title what are the benifits over standard, what improvement would i see on my v3 type r running a vf34. i only ask as im having a symtek fitted soon and wondered if it was worth doing this as well also whats the cost as id like to know bhp per buck so to speak.
10 April 2011, 11:02 PM
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You need to PM Harvey he will give you all the info you need.
You should look into having the standard headers ported and wrapped and a matched up pipe to suit your mods, I think you will find more boost and early spool with power increase, But you will need a map tweak.
You should look into having the standard headers ported and wrapped and a matched up pipe to suit your mods, I think you will find more boost and early spool with power increase, But you will need a map tweak.
11 April 2011, 01:56 PM
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11 April 2011, 08:01 PM
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Jonto: You are talking rubbish. I have never sold anybody a set of ported headers and matched uppipe that has not been impressed with the gains they have achieved. I have developed my porting and matched uppipe using a flow bench and there is absolutely no doubt that my ported headers and matched uppipe add torque, earlier spool and increased boost at the same wastegate duty cycle or the same boost at reduced wastegate duty cycle and hence less heat.
Mappers such as Bob Rawle will also confirm that during remapping more fuel has to be added and this is indicative of more power.
Clearly Jonto you have never had a set of my headers and matched uppipe but many people on here can attest to the improvements they experienced.
I only use DEI heat wrap and we have header sets wrapped three years ago that are still in good order.
Mappers such as Bob Rawle will also confirm that during remapping more fuel has to be added and this is indicative of more power.
Clearly Jonto you have never had a set of my headers and matched uppipe but many people on here can attest to the improvements they experienced.
I only use DEI heat wrap and we have header sets wrapped three years ago that are still in good order.
not ported or matched 
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12 April 2011, 08:15 AM
#8
Hi Gonzo: Wrapping the headers and uppipe actually does make a difference and I have demonstrated this a number of times. Heat is retained in the turbo and header system.
If a car is run on a level piece of road several times in both directions in say 4th gear from around 1700 rpm and the point at which hits 1 bar is logged and the headers are then wrapped you will find that typically it can take say 5 or 6 runs before the spool point stabilizes on the unwrapped headers. When the headers are wrapped it may take 3 runs and the spool point may be marginally less. When you actually want to start giving the car the beans you are starting froma higher turbo temperature anyhow.
There is also the benefit of reduced under bonnet temperature that I cannot exactly quantify but I have done experiments and can prove that under bonnet temperatures are reduced (even more so when the turbo exhaust side and downpipe are wrapped).
If a car is run on a level piece of road several times in both directions in say 4th gear from around 1700 rpm and the point at which hits 1 bar is logged and the headers are then wrapped you will find that typically it can take say 5 or 6 runs before the spool point stabilizes on the unwrapped headers. When the headers are wrapped it may take 3 runs and the spool point may be marginally less. When you actually want to start giving the car the beans you are starting froma higher turbo temperature anyhow.
There is also the benefit of reduced under bonnet temperature that I cannot exactly quantify but I have done experiments and can prove that under bonnet temperatures are reduced (even more so when the turbo exhaust side and downpipe are wrapped).
12 April 2011, 10:45 AM
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Hi Gonzo: Wrapping the headers and uppipe actually does make a difference and I have demonstrated this a number of times. Heat is retained in the turbo and header system.
If a car is run on a level piece of road several times in both directions in say 4th gear from around 1700 rpm and the point at which hits 1 bar is logged and the headers are then wrapped you will find that typically it can take say 5 or 6 runs before the spool point stabilizes on the unwrapped headers. When the headers are wrapped it may take 3 runs and the spool point may be marginally less. When you actually want to start giving the car the beans you are starting froma higher turbo temperature anyhow.
There is also the benefit of reduced under bonnet temperature that I cannot exactly quantify but I have done experiments and can prove that under bonnet temperatures are reduced (even more so when the turbo exhaust side and downpipe are wrapped).
If a car is run on a level piece of road several times in both directions in say 4th gear from around 1700 rpm and the point at which hits 1 bar is logged and the headers are then wrapped you will find that typically it can take say 5 or 6 runs before the spool point stabilizes on the unwrapped headers. When the headers are wrapped it may take 3 runs and the spool point may be marginally less. When you actually want to start giving the car the beans you are starting froma higher turbo temperature anyhow.
There is also the benefit of reduced under bonnet temperature that I cannot exactly quantify but I have done experiments and can prove that under bonnet temperatures are reduced (even more so when the turbo exhaust side and downpipe are wrapped).
Gonzo is right, i was referring to JUST wrapping them and feeling the effects from JUST wrapping them from the drivers seat. Not on a dyno, or RR where it shows a 0.5bhp increase or under lab like test conditions.
But hey, i haven't got a product to sell.
12 April 2011, 11:07 AM
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What I am saying is that you'd never notice the difference from the driver's seat. Ie. Take two identical cars, one with wrapped headers, one without.......and then drive them both from A to B. I bet 99% of people wouldn't be able to tell which car had wrapped headers and which didn't.
12 April 2011, 01:27 PM
#14
I'm not saying he is dishonest, nor am I saying that wrapped headers etc do not have benefits.
What I am saying is that you'd never notice the difference from the driver's seat. Ie. Take two identical cars, one with wrapped headers, one without.......and then drive them both from A to B. I bet 99% of people wouldn't be able to tell which car had wrapped headers and which didn't.
What I am saying is that you'd never notice the difference from the driver's seat. Ie. Take two identical cars, one with wrapped headers, one without.......and then drive them both from A to B. I bet 99% of people wouldn't be able to tell which car had wrapped headers and which didn't.
OK, I understand that, it was the comment about you not having a product to sell which I took umbrage at.
Let's leave ity at that, eh?
12 April 2011, 01:37 PM
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To be fair, i don't see what it's got to do with you really as it was dialogue between me and Harvey. You could atleast let the lad fight his own battles!
Or, maybe I'd best get one of my mates to join in and take umbrage at him telling me i talk rubbish when infact he just misinterpreted what i'd said.
12 April 2011, 07:39 PM
#20
Not on a dyno, or RR where it shows a 0.5bhp increase or under lab like test conditions.
Have a different view by all means but do not call my integrity into question. Fortunately any interested Subaru owner can do the same before and after test I describe in my post above and draw their own conclusions. Providing quality wrap is applied properly they will make the same observations I reported.
I am not trying to sell a product. I am stating what the effect of wrapping headers will be.
12 April 2011, 07:56 PM
#21
To be fair, i don't see what it's got to do with you really as it was dialogue between me and Harvey. You could atleast let the lad fight his own battles!
Or, maybe I'd best get one of my mates to join in and take umbrage at him telling me i talk rubbish when infact he just misinterpreted what i'd said.
Or, maybe I'd best get one of my mates to join in and take umbrage at him telling me i talk rubbish when infact he just misinterpreted what i'd said.
Grow up, eh?
The reason I TOOK umbrage is because Harvey is one of the people on here that others refer to. He is as honest as the day is long, NEVER makes a statement he can't back up with facts and figures and has done LOTS of work and development on our engines that we all benefit from.
To call his integrity into question is an insult. And not just to him, but to those of us who know him and have HAD the benefits of his experience and know how.
NOW, let's leave it, eh?
17 June 2011, 01:15 PM
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I find your last sentence totally unsatisfactory. You are inferring that my post is influenced by commercial consideration when I am simply stating the facts. If you do not recognise my post as a statement of fact you clearly have little understanding of how a turbo charged engine works and you clearly have not done back to back tests. Thermal management on any turbocharged engine is an important consideration when improving performance and the headers and uppipe play an important part in that equation.
At no time did I say there would be an increase in bhp. I think there may be a slight increase but that is not the point of the post and that is not what I am saying. Read what I said again. With heat management the turbo will spool earlier and in many cases quite noticably so. If you want to criticise what I said just stick with what I did say instead of introducing .5 bhp. Unfortunately for you any interested party can repeat these spooling tests and demonstrate you don't know what you are talking about.
Have a different view by all means but do not call my integrity into question. Fortunately any interested Subaru owner can do the same before and after test I describe in my post above and draw their own conclusions. Providing quality wrap is applied properly they will make the same observations I reported.
I am not trying to sell a product. I am stating what the effect of wrapping headers will be.
At no time did I say there would be an increase in bhp. I think there may be a slight increase but that is not the point of the post and that is not what I am saying. Read what I said again. With heat management the turbo will spool earlier and in many cases quite noticably so. If you want to criticise what I said just stick with what I did say instead of introducing .5 bhp. Unfortunately for you any interested party can repeat these spooling tests and demonstrate you don't know what you are talking about.
Have a different view by all means but do not call my integrity into question. Fortunately any interested Subaru owner can do the same before and after test I describe in my post above and draw their own conclusions. Providing quality wrap is applied properly they will make the same observations I reported.
I am not trying to sell a product. I am stating what the effect of wrapping headers will be.
17 June 2011, 01:18 PM
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Mate, I said let's leave it, but you couldn't, could you?
Grow up, eh?
The reason I TOOK umbrage is because Harvey is one of the people on here that others refer to. He is as honest as the day is long, NEVER makes a statement he can't back up with facts and figures and has done LOTS of work and development on our engines that we all benefit from.
To call his integrity into question is an insult. And not just to him, but to those of us who know him and have HAD the benefits of his experience and know how.
NOW, let's leave it, eh?
Grow up, eh?
The reason I TOOK umbrage is because Harvey is one of the people on here that others refer to. He is as honest as the day is long, NEVER makes a statement he can't back up with facts and figures and has done LOTS of work and development on our engines that we all benefit from.
To call his integrity into question is an insult. And not just to him, but to those of us who know him and have HAD the benefits of his experience and know how.
NOW, let's leave it, eh?
