steve170

Hello,

I'm returning to the Scooby fold after a few years away - amazed my login still worked! I used to run an old school '94 WRX which had to go due to increased running costs. I think I blew more engines than McRae and Burns put together!

I've had a weird route for various financial / family reasons including:

- Fiat Coupe 20VT (fun, but obviously broke a lot)
- 205 1.6GTi (fantastic bangernomics)
- Nissan Primera 2.2DCi (company car, my wife runs it now. Never gone wrong. Big. That's about all you can say really!)
- Ford Focus ST (Company car! lol! Best car I've ever owned if it a bit undesteery).
- Alfa 159 1750TBi (Company car - very disappointing, trying to get rid........)

So I want to ditch the company car and use my own money on an early hawkeye shape STI.

Now my query is over this Type UK bit. I've trawled through my EVO collection and the internet but I can't find the answer. I seem to recall that the Type UKs were less powerfull than the Jap-spec STIs? Perhaps only 260bhp? But then I've read an article on the discreet type D where it has 276bhp? Perhaps it was the early bug-eyes that only had 260?

There must be a thread discussing this somewhere? Also, the PPP takes them up to about 316bhp?

I look forward to your replies and to driving something 4WD again in this damp country we live in.

Thanks,

Stephen.

Suberman

Hi Stephen, Welcome back!

Anyway regarding your questions.

I seem to recall that the Type UKs were less powerfull than the Jap-spec STIs?
Yes they are. The MY01-05 type uk produced 265ps standard from the 2.0L engine. Jap spec STIs produces 280ps, but that is quite underrated.

But then I've read an article on the discreet type D where it has 276bhp? Perhaps it was the early bug-eyes that only had 260?
From MY06-07. The 2.0L engines were ditched in favour of a 2.5L engine producing 280ps and a whole lot more torque. The Spec D was based on the MY06-07 bodyshell (also known as hawkeye) but with some subtlety thrown in. Hence Spec D for discreet. It's got a low spoiler, dark coloured seats, silver wheels etc.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The early 2.5's had a really bad rep for reliability (mainly headgaskets) and were the UK cars, if you can get hold of one then the JDM twin scroll car is the one to go for, still 2ltr, more powerful out of the box, more torque etc, you can go for a 2.5 as they are more widely available but you have to shop around alot.

Tony

steve170

Thanks Suberman. Exactly what I needed to know. It's the 2.5 I want, in the MY06-07 body, so it all looks straightforward.

Thanks Tony. I think I'm going to for the bigger capacity engine. There were lots of claims about this 1.75TBi engine I'm running, "As much torque as a 3.2V6". But in reality, I don't think you can beat cubes.

Just need to ditch the Alfa and then find a nice, standard example!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The twin scroll engine is better than the 2.5, I think you will be amazed how good it is just ask any of us twin scroll owners, 2.5ltr on a twin scroll then I would say yes, but single scroll v twin scroll (and the 2ltr suffers none of the many issues of the 2.5 ltr engine ) and the twin scroll wins

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I should mention that 25mph and 5th gear in a twin scroll and they still pull

Tony

steve170

Tony - actually I know what you mean because the Focus ST has a twin-scroll and it was bonkers how well it pulled at low revs.

So what's the latest car that had the 2.0ltr twin-scroll?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The twin scroll went into every JDM blob STI since they were introduced in 2003, some small revisions on the 2005 model and pretty much carried on since then.
Its a nice strong engine with a virtually none existant failure rate (normally owner stupidity if they do go pop), in the latest JDM hatches, just depends what you want to spend your cash on, MY03-05 cars were rated at "280ps" but pushed out 310-320bhp on average, later cars (hawks) ran a little over 300bhp as a quoted figure, hatches a few bhp more than that, still above the UK 2.5's I add
Its more rev friendly, depending where you are, there will no doubt be an owner around who will let you have a go, if not then there are a few places that sell them, quite rare at the moment due to the yen v pound exchange rate

Tony

andythejock01wrx

G'day Tony,

Obviously the Hawk Sti's did have issues with head gaskets, but are you not exagerating to describe them as having "a really bad rep for reliability"? The threads I have seen on here suggest that the problem is not all that common and and the 2008 model on is quite a bit worse.

Any thoughts of frequency of these issues?

steve170

I'm also nervous about owning a JDM car. Have things moved on since I had my WRX back in 1999 / 2000? It cost me more to insure, had to get it serviced at a limited number of specialists and parts were really hard to come by. If I got parts from Subaru they wouldn't let me return them if it turned out they were the wrong ones

It had less crash protection, no underseal, no ABS. (It was light and fast though!)

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

I've seen quite a few people on here referring to them as having 'chocolate pistons', it may just be their reputation on here.

As Tony said, stick with the JDM STi and don't worry about PPP. Exhaust, filter and a remap will easily see you more BHP than a PPP'd example. If you compare the JDM to the UK they are better cars. If you find one that was sourced through a reputable importer then things like underseal will have been taken care of. Nothing to stop you getting under and having a look around and then getting it sealed yourself. Also for me insurance was no different, and most insurers quoted me as well. You might get some bullsh*t from a main dealer about servicing but my advice is to find an independant specialist anyway, then it won't matter.

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

I've only ever read that comment when discussing the Hatch?
What's the difference between the Hawk and Hatch 2.5 UK engine?

andythejock01wrx

Yup, that seems to be the 2008s assuming you don't mod the UK 2006 beyong a simple remap and sports cat exhaust.

andythejock01wrx

Snap!

"Pass" re your question though. Anybody know?

My plan is to go for a UK 2006 STi, remap with Milltek sports cat.

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, maybe only head gaskets on 2006 then .....

Though to be brutal why *anyone* would want a 2006+ is beyond me, I refuse to pay double the tax of < March 06 reg car to the ***-raping government!

andythejock01wrx

It's a negative, but the extra £200pa isn't decisive for me when considering all the other costs of running these cars - just one of many, lol!

Agreed re the *** raping Govt!

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

Chocolate pistons

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

I know what you mean, tbh though (apart from fuel @ £1,000,000 per litre) the running costs are actually quite good. Servicing etc is far from expensive etc.

If it is the Hawk style you defo want, I'd search a bit more for a 55 plate then you have an extra £200 a year for mods

andythejock01wrx

Fancy the 2006 for the low down power of a mapped 2.5. Oh, and those sexy headlamps too!

SpecDscooby

I have a 2007 2.5, and previously owned a 2.0 2003 PPP WRX. I find the newer lump much smoother than the old, it pulls better at lowers revs, and noticably uses the Turbo less than the 2.0 lump. Also on the interior there is no doubt a better build quality. Better gaps less rattles and a generally better quality feel...to me.

Just to add a little more, i'm the 2nd owner of my car, and it has never had anything more than routine work done. nothing wrong with my head gasket, or the pistons.

I have no issue with paying additional road TAX, since i never wanted a 4+ yr old car, that i would claim was "reliable"; a car can only ever get worn more and more.... Newer is better for me, and less miles is key...for me!

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

theres a specD in the for sale section

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Nothing, its the same engine, the early 2.5's had dodgy headgaskets which made them pretty unreliable, the only other main difference is that the 2007 had different head gaskets and the 2008 had a different map.

The twin scroll is probably less laggy than the 2.5, thats the joys of it

Tony

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

Like a twin-scroll ....

The interior is the same as the MY05 blob I think?

Yours is approaching 4 years old and it still feels smooth as?

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

Twin-scroll 2.0 easily matches this! Honestly, I do like the hawks, but I would defo still go JDM over UK any day of the week.

andythejock01wrx

Pity there are no stats to demonstate whether this was as serious an issue as you suggest on the 2006s - not criticising, I'd like to see 'em too. From what I've been able to ascertain it's the combination of pistons and badly revised map that cause the pistons to go on the 2008s.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Head gaskets on the Hawkeye being a weak spot is a bit of an SN myth AFAIK. As I understand it, the pistons on a hawk only good for circa 1.3 bar; beyond that they're gonna go, so there is some justification to them being referred to as chocolate.

To give you an idea of what can be achieved with the 2.5 without much effort or expense; Bob remapped my PPP hawk (no other mods) and it achieved 350bhp and 380ft lbs torque there and then. Spools even better than a TD04 on a 2litre. I kid you not! It pulls from nothing and is really delivering the goods torque wise between 2500rpm and 3500rpm. Trust me, it makes for a very quick real world performance car. Get a better exhaust on there and it'll do 380bhp and 400+ ft lbs. Beyond that and you're gonna have to change the pistons.

The 'problem' if you can call it that, with the 2.5s is that they run out of puff on the std blower, so if you like the bonkers top end of the JDM 2.0 you're probably better sticking with that, or budget for a turbo upgrade on the 2.5, which will require better pistons. I wouldn't go back to the 2.0 litre scooby again, personally, but the twin scroll set up is very good if you want to stick with 2 litres.

Me, I'm having the nice folks at APi rebuild my 2.5 so I can put a proper turbo in there and then 450+bhp and lbs ft of torque will be mine at which point those pesky twin scrolls will no longer be a concern! lol

Ns04

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

Not sure about the torque but thats about the same BHP as a 2.0 remapped with similar mods?

Isn't TD04 a WRX turbo, VF-something or other on STi?

andythejock01wrx

I'd be more than happy with the above. I don't go above 6k revs on my 300/290 2001 WRX with TD04 Hybrid all that often and love the low spool. For me a 2.5 Andy F mapped STi with sports cat Milltek is likely to be a more powerful car with similar characterists. 350/390 sounds just fine to me!

Not that I wouldn't go for 450bhp if the funds would stretch. If only girlfriends weren't so expensive to run!

andythejock01wrx

I think that's what Paul's getting at Brough - ie that the mapped 2.5 STi feels as good as the TDo4 low down (similar to JDM from what you say). VF43 I reckon. When I discussed this turbo with Andy F he reckoned it was a good un at that level.

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

I see what you're saying, anyway this conversation is definately starting to go way beyond what I know about Imprezas, which aint much lol! This is the best way to learn though!