David L

I read another grey import bashing article today in the mirror from Quentin Wilson. This includes the usual there unsafe stuff "The UK trade in Japanese imports has been completely unregulated, with thousands of mediocre and unsafe imported cars being bought by bargain conscious buyers"..." Many have failed the Japanese equivalent of our MOT and are sold off cheap to dealers and traders in the uk"....
BUT THE BRILLANT ONE is "thousand of grey imports have been stolen to order in Japan"..
I have to quote the rest of the article as you won't believe what is says.......
" the police tell me as many as 5,000 being driven by unsuspecting UK buyers who could end up having them confiscated. This trade has been going on for 3 years, financed by Asian drug money. One customs spot chek revealed that 70 out of 100 cars waiting for clearance into the UK had been stolen in Japan.
They are shipped to free-trade ports, such as Dubai, and imported into the UK via Gibraltar,Holland and germany. Often the stolen Mitsubishi Pajeros, FTOs, Toyota Land cruisers and subaru WRXs are given the identities of newer cars with some of the best forged documentation police have ever seen".....

If it didn't cause out imprezas to drop in valve it would be funny. There are stacks of untruths in this article. We just can let people bring down the value of our cars with lies. Does anyone know the email address of complaints to the media. Also let the mirror know how you feel on

pslewis

I personally would not go within 5 miles of buying a 'grey' - may be a fine car, but - doubtful history, no underseal, unique parts, unproven mileages AND asking the same amount of money as a UK car!!!!

The simple fact is, when Imprezas were hard to get people flocked to the grey imports (I even looked at that route to get my bum into the best car in the world!!) - my brain kicked in and I awaited a UK model.

UK models are so easy to get now that people can choose what they want, and what they want is a warranted, clean, UK car - nothing less .... so the greys are falling through the floor. I really feel for you as I could have been in the grey mess too!!

pete

Scooby Doc

Quentin is right though. There is no way of verifying any of the details of grey imports.

As for UK cars. Grey imports softened residuals across the board for UK spec Japanese cars. We are now in a transitional phase where UK prices are coming down, helped by the trend for personal imports, by falling UK sales but the downside is that there is a major readjustment of used values.
Negative equity is a real problem for a lot of owners with HP or PCP agreements.

Buying a UK car and keeping a full dealer SH are no longer enough to maintain residuals. Not helped by 6 monthly reg changes either.

There is a little bit more than just Quentin eating into the value of our "pride and joys"

Martin

Sonic Boom

Steady on Pete..

Some of us put a lot of time and effort into importing our "pride and joy".

I myself, did a lot of searching and checking out companies when I was looking into importing my Scooby.

Why did I import ? Basically I wanted a Scooby that was different to the UK models. I was after a 2-Door Coupe rather than a 4 door or 5 door. Being an avid Rally fan, I was after a car that resembled the model being used by Prodrive/Subaru in the World Rally Championship. So I was after the STi5 Type R Limited Edition.

I was after a car with a bit more power than the UK spec. (No offense intended to UK owners, as I know with the kind of mods the guys on the BBS are adding, your scoobies are just as quick if not quicker than my standard import).

Put simply, the car I was after was not available in the UK, and when I approached the UK dealers I was advised that this car would never be imported. Hence I chose to import.

I imported a brand new unregistered STi with only 20 miles on the clock when it rolled off the transporter at the dealer. I know about clocking so took along with me a good friend to check out the car was legitimate. All was OK.

The fact that a noted journalists like Quentin Wilson has launched attacks on the "grey" imports for reasons without statistics or figures to back up claims is a little disapointing. This especially as his colleagues at Top Gear are so often telling us the benefits of importing.

As David said, this does not do anything for the resale value of our cars. When I say "our cars", I mean "all our cars". UK and Imported Scoobies.

Why do I say "all". Well, if you remember, the P1 is actually a Japanese specification Subaru Impreza STi. This car is structurally identical to the STi coupe. When it arrives here in the UK, Prodrive make modifications such as adding ABS and so on to make them more appropriate to the UK consumers. Basically at the end of the day, it is a 2-door Japanese Subaru Impreza.

I think Prodrive have done a fantastic job with the P1. Had this come along a coupe of years ago I would have been tempted as it is the same car as my own. (Not sure about the spot lamps, or £32000+ price tag )

So is Quentin saying that our new acclaimed P1 is a dangerous car ?

Scott.

Leigh

Pete,
No offence m8, but I can't help noticing that just about every single post you put on here goes on about "clean, low mileage, uk model, blah...."
Did you seriously look at greys before you bought yours? If you had, you'd have seen that if you go to a reputable dealer, they are not all the filthy death traps you seem to make out.
Granted, there is a lot of cr@p out there, mainly the stuff that comes through Irish auctions (thats the dodgy stuff that didn't sell in Japan, BTW), but I managed to find a MINT WRX, and it has more power, better seats, (I'm talking 95 models here)climate control, colour coding, folding mirrors etc etc. Another reason I went 'grey' was that for the same money, UK cars had MUCH higher mileage, and were generally in poorer condition.
As for greys not selling, I had a bloke stop me yesterday and ask if I was selling it!
I said no, of course, as I can't decide which filthy grey to buy next! Ooh, Skyline or Evo, I can't decide.
Also, I think you'll find it's only RA models that have no underseal. Mine certainly has!
Leigh

[This message has been edited by Leigh (edited 26 January 2001).]

Scooby Doc

OOOOOhhhhhhh


Skyline......

GranTurismo

There is a lot of crap talked about imports by the media but talking crap about things is thier job.

Stories about things bening nice and working properly dont seem to sell papers. I have a UK model (Personl choice) but suspected that the gery market was a short term phonomenem.

The main thing is that a STI and a UK spec are very differnt cars (It you are in the know) you pay your money and make your Choice.

The media talks pants about everything, as I work in internet related business I hate all the anti-internet ill informed scare mongering that the press do about that.

REMEMBER next time you read an article in the press about a subject which you know little about remember how wrong the article was that was written about a subject which you know.

Its all too skanky!

jjones

my personal opinion.

i do not currently own a scoob.

if i were to purchase another scoob i would look to get the last of the "old" shape. it would be of UK origin and would have dealer history. it would also be of very low miles and standard specification. no disrespect to anyone who has bought a grey import (i own a grey imort motorcycle), or modified a UK car - but from a neutal point of view i would not consider buying a scoob grey import, or moded scoob 2nd hand. I would want to buy a nice clean example as close to as it left the factory condition as possible.

GCollier

Maybe Quentin is writing with the "lowest common denominator" in the car buying public in mind - after all it is the Mirror (JOKING!!!)

Seriously though, you hear so many stories of people buying clocked/stolen/written-off cars because they haven't done their investigation properly, that it probably makes sense to urge the man in the street to be cautious, when dealing with something that CAN BE an even bigger minefield.

I don't really see why enthusiasts on this board should get too worried about it all - mint, well looked after cars, imported from new, will always find a buyer...amongst other enthusiasts. It's only the owners of cars where the history truly cannot be verified who need worry.

Gary.

miller

My cars history can not be verified.
But neither can anyone elses u.k or jap.
Only the owner who bought the car new knows
the real truth.

Otis

I couldn't have put it better myself Matt .

Who cares?


Otis.

ptholt

Although in IT now, i worked in the motor trade for about 6 years from my early teens, both at franchised dealers and at used sites.

And after witnessing the things that go on behind closed workshop doors i can honestly say i have no qualms about buying an import, everything can be reproduced and falsified without question, dont believe the hype.

I know one main dealer i worked with in the 80's that makes up dealer stamps of dealers that have gone bust so that histories can be stamped up, going so far as to making stationary up to recreate service bills.

haircutting is rife whether its uk or not, underseal is a £60 job, parts can be a problem but not when you know who to talk to and can get them within 48 hours from japan, as for warranties i have just this to say.

when i sold new mitsubishi's in the early 1980's we made very little money from car sales (probably more than they do now on a per car basis tho!) we had zero repair work as the damn things never broke down. Complaints were flying back and forth from dealer principles to mitsi complaining it was impossible to make money, their solution ?

Increase the warranty with the proviso that the cars had to be main dealer serviced in order to qualify, guaranteeing us 3-4 years servicing work per car sold for those that wanted the protection of long warranties, giving us the increased chance of also finding wear and tear items not covered by warranty to try and make more money from.

And if you want an even bigger laugh, just ask anyone about the crazy 6 year anti corrosion bodywork warranties and how much the 'inspections' are for that LOL !!!

Mick

iTrader: (1)

I have a 97MY UK car. Having owned it for 1 1/2 years now it is definitely 'underpowered' I would love an import STi! As long as you get a professional opinion on the vehicle and a thorough check you should not have to worry too much about 'history'. New vehicles can often end up back at the dealers for all sorts of complaints. There are no guarantees, unless you pay heavily for them!

Mick

MattN

I don't care!!

If you prefer UK cars buy one.

If you prefer Japanese cars buy one.

If you prefer Euro Imports buy one.

it makes me laugh you all try to justify why you bought your cars. Who cares as long as your happy with what you bought. Why You think you need to preech your views to others is beyond me. Just accept it different people like different things.

MattN

ROB MOONS

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scooby Doc:
[B]Quentin is right though. There is no way of verifying any of the details of grey imports.

YOU ARE WRONG!my sti came with full service history and contary to popular belief you can understand it if you do a little research.
I bought a grey import not only because its rearer ,faster ,better equiped and sexier but because it had a checkable past
Fire extinguisher ready.
Rob

Moooser

When I took a look at buying a second hand UK model it struck me funny that almost every car had £1000 or more spent on mods to get the power up .... Now while some of them may have been fine it was always on my mind that alot of these mods may have caused some damage that may only come to light later in the cars life ....

So it was easy ..... Found a standard WRX inported from new and with about 10500 on the clock .... and I don't have to worry about some idiot having performed lame upgrades that may cost later in the cars life ...

Aditionaly I don't feel the need to do anything to the engine as its got all the grunt I need .... so my cash is going into AP 6 pots etc etc

rutt

iTrader: (1)

I'M AFRAID IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A MERC OR BMW BADGE ON THE BONNET MR WILSON WILL NEVER BE INTERESTED.YOU ONLY HAD TO SEE HIM ON TOP GEAR TO NOTICE THAT.

Scooby Doc

ptholt speaks wise words!

A fully stamped up service book is meaningless no matter where the car is from. Receipts to back it up are essential. However as pt says even this is not fullproof although the number of cars with such forged "service histories" will hopefully be the exception rather than the rule.

As ptholt says - dealers make their money from servicing - thats why they are more than happy to service eu imports. They clearly are missing out big time not tapping into the rich vein of business heldin all the "grey imports" in the UK.

You pays your money..... where have I heard that before?

Oh and Mooser - you are contradicting yourself

Martin

For those who bought grey imports - did you do so in the internet unseen or were the sold on from UK independent dealers?

pslewis

Well, this has stirred the blood GOOD!

I have nothing against 'grey' Jap imports.

I have nothing against EU private imports.

I have nothing against mods that anyone wants.

I dont like gold wheels but thats a different tack!!

All I KNOW as FACT is that the average person out there looking for a second-hand Scoobie is going to favour a warranted, UK spec (look at the ads this IS a MAJOR selling point!!!!) car that is as standard as the day it left the dealers new - jjones is thinking of buying one, look back in this thread and see what the punters are after

Now, the second owner might mod the car - but he does NOT want to buy one already modded (unless it is cheaper of course!)

Just my view - and as I am ALWAYS correct then take it all as gospel.

Pete

Scooby Doc

Pete

But even those perfect "warranted" UK cars are commanding bottom book price.

It seems there has been no better time to buy

Martin

Spec

To return to the point, Quentin is a Merc loving freak with a vested interest and should not be allowed to spout such one sided rubbish!
As a follow up to the import v UK argument, I'm gonna buy a WRX probably from Japan. Why?
Its a better spec car than the UK model. I want to buy trade and have some form of comeback should I have problems (unlikely) and most of the UK dealers are asking too much money for a older car. I don't want to risk buying privately and getting stung due to my lack of knowledge Scoobywise, and finally most of the Scoobs in my price range have been modded too much which firstly makes them even harder to insure and secondly may lead to problems later.

Gussie Cup

No car is an investment.

UK spec or import, its going to lose money over time.

I'd hate to think that I'd spent a lot of money buying a car and was then too worried about residuals to enjoy it.

Leigh

Mr Wilson should have a look at the state of the market for his favourite cars, ie Mercedes Benz. My uncle bought a brand new E230 Avante Guard for £34k just under three years ago. He has just traded it in (to the same Merc dealer he bought it from) with only 14000 miles on it for £15k. Now THAT'S depreciation!!
He should have bought a grey...

Moooser

Scooby Doc - Why am I contradicting myself ? Seems to me quite clear - buy a car with all the power I need and therefore no need to play with engine mods ...

An AP 6 pot will hardly cause major problems later on in the cars life .... and indeed if it did you can just put back the old bits ...

Question to everyone ....

Is the UK model fully assembled in the UK ?

ca

Leigh,

Been there, done that!

Why is your uncle doint it again?

C

mkellerman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ROB MOONS:
[B][QUOTE]YOU ARE WRONG!my sti came with full service history and contary to popular belief you can understand it if you do a little research.

I used to live in Japan and have imported a grey import Supra. I can read Japanese, so I can read the service history. I even was able to phone up the previous owner. I got a specialist in exporting cars from Japan to export it for me, but it might have been better if I had bought from a dealer, because I might have got a cheaper price if I had shopped around.

harj

Toss is my comment to Quinton Dodgy car dealer Wilson who got done for clocking cars!

All im interested in is when the Skyline R34 Price will come down

Gordon Shek

I own a UK Turbo and I wouldn't buy an import myself. My brother bought a Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo Imported and it was his worse mistake. No parts back-up (was told there was) and had a problem with the fuel he used. I believe jap imports use 100 RON fuel, well he used SUL but that wasn't enough and his engine turned into a blender. A lot of garages I've been to had Jap cars with no engines in them - and that was the reason. The grade of fuel in the UK is not high enough to take Jap cars and so therefore you get a lot of imports detonating. Also you get a lot of boy racers who can afford the cars but don't use SUL plus octane booster just to save a quid or two and hey presto! Another japanese blender.

My advice would be do your homework first before buying and you should be alright - decide the pros and cons of imports and UK cars. After sales, type of fuel you can afford to use, resale value etc etc etc.

mattski

we've been here before ... sigh

everyone has an opinion but my 2p's worth is that I have an imported WRX (as do lots of the guys on here) and have had no problems with it whatsover, it is the best car I have ever had.

'problems' like fuel, parts etc are all not really problems, they are things that you just handle, I use SUL + millers as a matter of course and don't mind paying the extra.

I haven't needed any major parts but even if I did I am confident that suppliers like Scoobysport, Scoobymania, BRD, Grade A etc could solve the problem, failing that the community of people here are a fab bunch and bend over backwards for people with a problem.

So please stop this crap scare mongering, there is nothing wrong with imports, I would have no hesitation in buying another import and that is exactly what I intend to do at some point, i.e. either an STi v5 or Evo of some description.

What is so great about a UK car? Imports are cheaper, better spec, more powerful, I find it amazing, the cars are probably even built on the same track And don't think that UK cars guarantee quality, that is a load of crap. I *know* of one Evo 6 that was stolen from a dealer, nicked, repaired and sold as brand new and also of a new MY01 that was smashed to bits and is being repaired NOT reshelled (they can't get one).... wonder if that will be sold as new? (yes)

flame stuff on...

Matt

ta,
Matt

[This message has been edited by mattski (edited 06 March 2001).]

HAPPY

is it true that prodrive stole an sti5 and turned it into my P1 and one day i will get it confiscated?