1000rwhp

hello,


i have a 2004 impreza wrx v-limited and the boost gauge shows 1.3
when booting it is that fine?

thanks guys

n8i

iTrader: (3)

hi

if it's ecuteked, than it's ok. May not when you don't know of a boostcontroller installation or anything else. Most people just fit boostgauges... don't know why - honestly

regards
Nico

1000rwhp

hello, no its not an ecutek so that means its over-boosting ,

1000rwhp

i already have a boost gauge

scoobiewrx555

What Turbo do newage JDM WRX V Limited's run?? Not a TD04 surely as 19psi sounds pretty high for one of those. From a VF35 or 16G thats no problem but not a TD04. Not to my knowledge anyway.

Do you have a manual boost controller fitted??

1000rwhp

all i know is that it has a twin scroll turbo on it looks pretty small,the factory boost gauge is on it the sti genome or something its called...and i don't have a manual boost gauge fitted


many thanks

scoobiewrx555

IF it's a twin scroll it could be a VF36 or 37 in which case it would be more than capable of 1.3 bar and then some but i don't know if the WRX V-Limited came with a twin scroll.

The std JDM WRX Taget boost table is set at .94bar peak, easily doable with a TD04, so even with some overboosting in 4th and 5th which is quite normal 1.3bar still seems quite high. It may well have been remapped at some time, although not necessarily with EcuTek (could be Open Source, easy enough to check if you have a laptop with the right software and cable) which might account for the 1.3bar.

Incidently what gear are you in to see 1.3bar. If it's in third on wide open throttle then it's more than likely had an aftermarket remap of some sort. As far as you are aware is this car is absolutely bog std??

1000rwhp

yes mate i know 100% that it has a twin scroll turbo on it ...after looking at the engine underneath as well its totally standard,i will try to contact the previous owner to ask him if he remapped it im pretty sure its not had aftermarket remap?....also yes its boosting 1.3 bar in third

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Its a wrx, dont think these went twin scroll until the hatches, would still be a td04 turbo afaik, 1.3bar would equate to around 260-270bhp, standard 250ps out of the factory.

Tony

scoobiewrx555

A TD04 will make 270-280 at around 17psi (1.17bar) with 440cc injectors on a UK newage. You wouldn't really want to take the turbo much further than that.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Not a hope in hell
The PPP on a classic makes 1.1, peaks 1.2 which is 250bhp, for 215 it runs .9, it would need to be pushing 1.4bar to hit 280bhp.

Tony

scoobiewrx555

I've just had a look at one of my old WOT logs when my wagon still had a TD04.

The way i'd mapped it my old TD04 peaked boost at 16.25psi flowing 219g/s at 5,500rpm. It saw 226 g/s peak flow at 5900rpm.

Mass Air Flow is roughtly equivalent to WHP. Do the guestimation maths 226 + 10 / 0.84(.84=16% guess i use for drivetrain losses) = 280bhp (at the fly).

That was with just a decat uppipe, high flow flat panel air filter and snorkus delete. It would have made a bit more if i'd removed the other two cats due to spooling up a lot quicker and from a bit lower down, and i would have seen an overboost to 17psi.

My injectors were very close to being maxxed out with just the std FPR.

1.4bar to hit 280bhp......Who does your mapping??

Edited to add....3rd gear WOT log.

1000rwhp

thanks for the help guys

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Prodrive did the original mapping on my MY00, i think they know what they are doing like I said, you would need 1.4bar to hit 280bhp, just remember the TD04 is a small turbocharger, not like its bigger brother the TD05.
Oh and what wagon did you have originally??

Tony

scoobiewrx555

Tony,

I think it's fair to say that across the board, when properly mapped and with appropriate mods, a 2ltr Subaru Impreza, newage or classic, with a TD04 and 440cc injectors, barring minor differences in induction and exhaust (hence why i stated appropriate mods), will make 270-280bhp at less than 1.2bar.

There aren't massive mechanical differences between a V.6 and V.7 WRX. They have similar intercoolers and induction systems, exhausts etc....

A TD04 is still a TD04 and will make very similar power on either car at very similar boost levels, and it doesn't take 1.4bar to make 280bhp on either. I say again, it's all down to carefully selected mods and good quality mapping, period!!

As for Prodrive.....A one size fits all solution isn't custom mapping and will produce a wide variety of different results from car to car, even if they are all identical. That is true for classic or newage cars.

You would like to think Prodrive know exactly what they're doing with road going Subaru's....History doesn't entirely agree!!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Newton knew what he was doing back in the 18th century, you cant really change the laws of physics when the hole is the same size for the pressure needed to produce the power

True but slightly different turbo's, still there isnt much in it.

Nope just do a search, you will see that 1.4 bar is pretty much 280bhp on this type of turbocharger.

It works pretty well, you know its not like they are a bunch of amatures, they have been at this for a good 25 years and even if their "1 size fits all" solution doesnt give you mega power, what it does give you is accurate power, having seen 2 330S's on the rolling road, same day, same BHP output and 1lb of torque difference (both pushed out well over the quoted 330ps ) its still a good solution.

P1's, Prodrive couldnt do their own mapping on the ECU, they could only ask for more knock correction on the ecu, new age cars, they run fine, hatches, well issues there, no doubt if they have a similar situation with the ecu's as they did with the P1 that would explain alot.

Keep dreaming that you can get 280bhp out of a standard TD04 at 1.2bar peak even the mappers would have difficulty getting that figure

Tony

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Interestingly Tony, on Andy Forrests website he claims 260-280 for a TD04...

http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/58901.html

The TD04 at high boost simply heats the air so much and the WRX intercooler inneficiency and pressure drop kills charge volume / density

To get 280 at 1.2 bar it must have been in the middle of a scottish winter LOL

Shaun (ex mapped TD04 owner)

scoobiewrx555

I've posted the relevant figures from one of my logs and done the maths to demonstrate what the end result was. The log doesn't lie and neither do i. I've done this with countless cars so it's fair to say i might have some idea of what can be safely achieved.

Unless you map Subaru's you won't know just how capable the TD04 is and just what you can squeeze from it without endangering your motor or the turbo. Because customers cars are mapped ultra safe the ECU runs much richer AFR's, and certainly less timing than i used to run on my own car whilst a WRX, hence why you will need more boost to get to where you want to but still fall short.

Boost feels nice but it doesn't give you more power on it's own. Until you start to run leaner AFR's and a bit more timing, and make many other adjustments to the mapping, and all still without knock, you won't get the full monty.

What the tuner leaves you with is something with still more room to manouvre if you want what is really achievable given proper time and effort, but will make for a very safe and enjoyable ride.

Tuners don't tune customers cars for ultimate performance but for smiles per mile. The bigger your installation the more smiles per mile, but don't think for one minute that is the full potential of what's lurking under your bonnet.


I've stated what the TD04 can do, and what it has done, and that's without turning it into a flame thrower. It would seem that even when the facts are slapping you in the face you still don't believe it. Fair enough, you believe what you want to believe or what you've been led to believe.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You still cant beat physics, thats what your saying your doing
Here, try this

Get a ping pong ball, get a pea shooter (can you still get those or have they been removed for being too pc?) if not a straw will do get a can of compressed air, squirt down straw whilst straw is next to ping pong ball, ball moves, measure distance.
Now add a larger tube, seal the end and put same straw in the end, again put ping pong ball next to straw, blow compressed air down the bigger tube, measure distance the ball has moved.
You will probably find the ball has moved pretty much the same distance.

Now get a more pressurised compressed air can, do the same, you will note that the ball moves further as you have more pressure, without that pressure you will always get similar results if your turbo is the same, you cant beat physics.

Just to make it really plain, you need more fuel and more air to make more power.

Tony

PS, just to confirm, we are both talking about 2ltr engines here?

scoobiewrx555

You''re a bright lad Tony and you seem to have all the answers on Subaru mapping.
Is that from experience??

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Scoobiewrx555

Just curious..... I note you have mapped "countless cars", I just wondered who you are in the real world?

Cheers

Shaun

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

It doesnt matter what you can map, of course if you dont understand physics..... and the underlying fact is that you are the only person on this planet who has mapped a car that runs at less than 1.2bar on a standard td04 turbo to 280bhp, no one else has, bloody amazing that

Tony

scoobiewrx555

You're convinced you need 1.4bar to make 280psi. You clearly don't know that from experience but from what you've read. So because you've read it on SN or wherever else you read that golden nugget of info from it must be true. Of course it is.

From experience, and with the figures i've provided from one of my logs way back in late 2007 from my own car it's clear to see exactly what the TD04 can make with the right mapping.

You say you need more fuel and more air to make more power. That's some revelation Sherlock!!

Just quickly on AFR's.....

Max power from Petrol 12.5:1

Max safe power on a well tuned scooby c.11.5:1
Max power on road going Subaru mapped by Prodrive c.10.2:1
Max power on road going Subaru mapped by some establsihed tuners c.10.0:1-10.5:1 - It varies widely. (I know this to be true because i've pulled the ROMS off these ECU's on more than one occasion and was unsurprised by the overly rich fuel maps)

This again is based on experience, not conjecture.

You can add all the fuel and air you like, but if it's too rich you'll never see the full potential of your setup although it will be smooth and safe and that's how mappers map their cars for ordinary road going Subaru's.

Look at the maps on a car with exactly the same setup but for active/competition use and you'll see much more agressive timing and much leaner AFR's, and careful use of boost but still without knock although they won't be far off that threshold. That's the difference and that's how the TD04 makes 280bhp on 1.2bar all day long. 1.4bar (20PSI) on a TD04, I would never!! And not without doing some damage sometime soon thereafter.

This has **** all to do with Physics and schoolboy experiments, it's got to do with accurate figures and that's what i've provided. I've read a whole bunch of your posts and it's pretty clear to see that all your posts are based purely on opinion, and that's all you have. You've spent the last 10years on SN reading and writing reams and reams of utter dribble and it's just habit now.

Marx Mcrae

iTrader: (4)

Somebody go and get Simon to sort this out!

I too dont believe that you can get 280bhp from just a standard TD04 at 1.2bar without additives!

1000rwhp

and i just remembered and it peaked 1.3 but it didn't hold the boost at all,i think you where right tony its a tdo4 not a scroll turbo.and i got 1.3 on a freezing morning .

thanks for the advice guys

scoobiewrx555

You can go and get who you like. The facts speak for themselves and you don't need additive, 99RON will be just fine.

Nonsense prevails and the SN armchair expert has once again proven themselves to be the preverbial brick wall that even good solid proven fact cannot penetrate.

Some of you are just amazing!!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

No we are just fed up of your dribble
You have done amazing things that other people cannot do, you have defied the laws of physics and no one else (all those other people who's cars you have mapped ) are here to back you up....

Tony

Mo

Tony, do yourself a favour and spend a little time researching what your preaching. My advise would be begin with thermodynamics and in particular adiabatic heating, also worth looking at the compressor map for a TD04.

Scoobiewrx555, might be worth logging EGTs and looking at a few engine failures before advising an AFR so generally.

280bhp is achievable on pump fuel, and I'm not talking E85, it's all about maximising the efficiency of the whole engine package particularly with such a small turbo. My UK wagon knocked on the door of 300bhp for sometime with a lowly TD04.

Mo

Tony, do yourself a favour and spend a little time researching what your preaching. My advise would be begin with thermodynamics and in particular adiabatic heating, also worth looking at the compressor map for a TD04.

Scoobiewrx555, might be worth logging EGTs and looking at a few engine failures before advising an AFR so generally.

280bhp is achievable on pump fuel, and I'm not talking E85, it's all about maximising the efficiency of the whole engine package particularly with such a small turbo. My UK wagon knocked on the door of 300bhp for sometime with a lowly TD04.

scoobiewrx555

EGT's were fine and under 900C. 11.3-11.5AFR's No knock through either my cans or the laptop. With supporting mods these AFR's are a good place to be without endangering your turbo or your engine. Mapped properly you'll see the results.