BarryK

Just read P33 of today's SUN.

"WRONG-WAY OAP IN KILLER SMASH"

What kind of moron is allowed to drive in this country who can "turn the wrong way after leaving Membury Services" up the M4?

Words fail me.

We need a retest regime to be introduced.

Or perhaps a speed camera?

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Re-test every 5 years for everyone.

So much changes in such a short space of time. Things have changed massively since this person passed their test and they have paid the ultimate price. It's in everyones best interests to keep abrest of the changes in Highway code. For all our sakes.

carl

It said in the original news report that two people were killed, so I guess someone else has paid the price too

druddle

The worst thing is, in the case of the OAP yesterday, he cannot be punished and made an example of, because he killed himself aswell as another.

I am a very strong believer in retests every 5 years, and a separate part of the test for motorway driving.

Dave

carl

No amount of driver skill is going to get you out of a situation in which you find yourself unexpectedly facing another car with a closing speed of around 180mph. The people who managed to avoid the old duffer only did so out of luck

It makes me sick [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] The unfortunate victim could have been me or a member of my family, happily minding their own business on the way to work, killed by the incompentence (and arrogance of not realizing he's too stupid to be on the road) of this old b4stard [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

We're all going to get old, but I'd like to think that I'd have enough sense to realize I was a danger and get off the road.

[Edited by carl - 3/28/2002 11:25:20 AM]

zoog

It is a tragedy for all involved - the old man would almost certainly have been suffering from either Alzheimer's or multi- infarct or another form of senile dementia that probably noone picked up because there are no driving retests for the elderly. As a sufferer he would not have realised that he had the cognitive problems - that is the nature of the disease. He wouldn't have known what he was doing was wrong and certainly wouldn't have intended to kil himself and others. You can't blame him - it is the system for monitoring who's fit to drive or not that failed.

[Edited by zoog - 3/28/2002 11:29:21 AM]

carl

I'm not aware of the full implications of Alzheimer's, but surely he would have realized that all the traffic was going the other way?

Crispin

By the time he realised............

RichieB

This is a tragic incident and I agree with the comments on re-tests to remove the older people who are, through no fault of their own, not fit to drive anymore.

However, statistically the number of fatal accidents that are caused by young "geezers" (in baseball hats and nice trainers) speeding in built up areas knocking over mums and kids, is much more of a problem. I was following an "exarrfree eye" the other day, full of "geezers", on a narrow lane bordered by tall hedges (Shire lane, near Green St Green if anyone knows it?). There was a bus in front, and he overtook the bus on a blind left hand bend, with no possible idea of who could have been coming the other way. It made me feel sick just watching it. The time was 4pm...lots of women driving kids home from school. There was a minimum of 5 deaths right there if some poor b*stard had been coming round that corner.

Sorry to digress from the subject a bit. I do agree with weeding out the unfit drivers one way or another....just wanted to point out that although some old people are slow witted, they usually drive slowly to compensate, which might be frustrating sometimes, but is usually safe. Wait till your're old and see if it changes your perspective. Competent old folks will unfairly suffer road rage as a result of the high profile news over this incident.

IMHO

Rich
Age 39

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Retests, deffo, but especially for the 'Older Folk' as in of pensionable age. I do also believe that drivers should be penalized far more heavily for dangerous driving, driving without due care and attention etc. Not covering speeding though That would help with the weeding out the bottom feeders...... Mobile phones in car are the devil's work too, if you ask me.

Cheers,

Nick.

MattN

it's not like he just joined the wrong way and was hit fairly soon - 4 MILES he travelled before the accident.

What's more he moved in to the fast lane next to the crash barrier!

Phill

Jezus what the wrong way up the M4 !!!!!

Re-test's should definately be brought in but should include a medical to detect eye conditions and general sight problems or anything else that may impact their driving skill. There should also be heavier punsihments for drivers who need to wear there glasses whilst driving but dont, let alone the 1-7 that would fail the eye sight test std anyrate.......

Thank the engineer's for Airbags and impact zones !!!

Phill

Dracoro

On the subject of retests, I think the re-test every 5 years is not really appropriate and very costly to administer. Drivers, especially younger ones, pick up bad habits that carry on through. My suggestion would be as follows:
1) 3 re-tests every 2 years after passing your test (e.g. at 19, 21, 23 if you passed your test at 17)
2) Re-test after any accident where injury was caused or the car was written off.
3) Re-test at 60, 65, 70, 75 etc.
4) Have proper insurance backed scheme to reduce insurance premiums by significant amounts if you pass advanced driving tests (review the aim one or replace with improved ones), not just a little tiddly discount as is now.

btw - I believe you have to re-take your test if you lose your license? is this true? If so, that means that some of the infrastructure for re-tests is already there.

[Edited by Dracoro - 3/28/2002 12:51:23 PM]

ian_sadler

Sorry to be ageist but its not the first time some old duffer has killed somebody in this way!

I have a mate who lives between Bournmouth & New Milton. He says the place is like gods waiting room. Loads of old folk who drive but shouldn't be alowed any where near a car

Ian

Dizzy

r u between 23 and 60 perchance?

Whos to say when someone is incapable of driving? I'm sure most ppl here speed, and that is viewed by most as extreemly bad. Who's to say were not the more dangerous on the road than some old "duffer" who pootles about at 40 everywhere? (mind you wrong way down the M4 is a fairly clear cut problem). I dont think a zero tolerance policy, cracking down or re-testing ppl would solve too much. Society is failing, I just learn to live with it.

What terrifies me is the amount of people who drive without licences and insurance and as we get stricter on bans etc and insurance rates go up there are bound to be alot more ppl driving without Should we lock them up? I dont know.



[Edited by Dizzy - 3/28/2002 1:01:26 PM]

Mikey_Boy

how could someone possibly drive the wrong way up a motorway !!!!!!

how did they ever pass their test in the first place

Dracoro

Dizzy - In principle I'm in favour of the every 5 year re-test jobbie but realise that it's a bit impractical given the scale of people and cost. I'm more for educating people if they are:
a) young/recent qualified people - and more impressionable and also the most at risk group for crashes etc. starting them off by having to keep their skills in check should provide for better long term driving skills
b) bad/poor drivers - these tend to be ones that lose their licenses and have bad smashes (yes there are some bad drivers who have few or no points, not had many/any crashes etc. but the cost to weed these out would be a bit disproportionate). At the moment someone can smash into a car (could be yours) every day writing them off or injuring(at worst killing) people but still legally drive, the system is missing something here!
c) the old - people DO get old and thus and eyesight deteriorates, senility can set in etc. my 'proposal' just checks that we all, as we get older, are still able to drive. Like many others have said here, I'd want someone to stop me driving before I get like the bloke who drove the wrongway down the m4.

There are other schemes that could be put into place to improve the other majority of drivers who don't fall into the above categories. e.g billboards on motorways reminding people not to tailgate, use correct lane disipline etc.

Jza

Re-tests dont work.... the dude will be concentrating for the test... its when he's left to his own devices he's dangerous...

Cant win.

I vote for a Logun's Run Society ... wipe out any one over say 65 (well if i say 35 ive got 3 years left )

Certainly be a safer place to drive!!!

And all those Toyota Corrolla's left around with nothing to do

Jza

Nowucme

The over 65's should certainly be re-tested at regular intervals.

Couple of weeks ago an old fella pulled out of a small lane onto the small A-road I was travelling along - my front off-side wing hit his rear near-side. He couldn't even work his mobile.....

Fortunately was driving my girlfriends car at the time so my Scoob is still sound!!

Paul Swarbrick

I agree with DJ Dunk on the re-tests and think the eyesight test that is conducted as part of the current test should be used alongside an opticians certificate every 5 years. No doubt that idea will get a slating based on cost but it would equate to the same as 1/2 - 3/4 of a tank of petrol every 5 years!!!
My grandfather has never passed a driving test as he used to drive during the war. He was as blind as a bat when he eventually stopped driving and his reactions were appalling - a re-test would have got him off the road years earlier. Fortunately he didn't kill anyone but thats hardly the point.

Paul

Orimental

I don't agree with the re-test every 5 years either mainly because not everyone can afford to pay out for a retest every 5 years and as mentioned everyone would be acting under test conditions not how they normally drive.
Also hundreds of new test centers would have to be opened and examiners employed & trained. Imagine the numbers every year coming into these places there would be thousands a week!

Don't get me wrong I am not against giving people proper instruction anything which makes drivers safer gets the thumbs upp from me. The idea of a compulsary advanced driving course sounds like a better idea.

And as for the subject of old people driving I agree with a written & practicl test every 5 years from the age of 60 because I have had first hand experience of being crashed into by one of them and she didn't know what she was doing. Also because I have witnessed the unbelievable things they do!
My grandfather is a perfect case, let me put it this way my grandmother insists on going everywhere with him when he's driving because she doesn't want to be left on her own if he dies. Pure madness.

Mikey_Boy

i agree with jza !!
blow all over 65's away !!heheehehehehe

just kidding !

[Edited by Mikey_Boy - 3/28/2002 1:55:40 PM]

MrDeference

When I hit the age of 50, I am going to put a shotgun on a chair facing the door of the spare room. When too old to remember it is there, or too slow to duck, I will have overstayed my time here. The rest is automatic

Paul Swarbrick

Well - I would have to agree that the logistics of 5 yearly tests for every driver in the country just would not work. Testing something like 20 million people just won't happen!! Good idea in theory but not practice.
'Fraid I will never agree that the cost should be the deciding factor though!! If someone can't afford whatever the driving test costs these days every 5 years then can they afford to keep a PROPERLY maintained car on the road???

Paul

Orimental

"If someone can't afford whatever the driving test costs these days every 5 years then can they afford to keep a PROPERLY maintained car on the road???"

I agree that is a good point, but then you'd hit the other barrier, people who do run poorly maintained cars and don't want to pay out every 5 years would then decide to drive uninsured because they can't get insurance on their cars without the test also this could be the case for people who fail the test taking the number of ininsured drivers through the roof along with our insurance quotes!!

MW1

My Dad had alziehmers and believe me if this old bloke had it he wouldnt have even known he was doing anything wrong. Our family actually realised he should not be driving and physically stopped my dad from driving. Unfortuntately there are loads of older people out there who have the early symptoms of the desease and dont know it and dont have family or friends to stop them driving.

As for retests for young people it just wont work. All it will do is make them drive without a license or insurance. Infact a lot of stupid driving is caused by young kids joyriding so how do you stop them? There is no answer to this problem.

mattstant

unfortunatley most of those people 70 plus who drive now seem to drive as if they are out to lunch.
i followed one old duffer to a slip lane on a ring road who attempted to use it as a t junction so i drove around the inside of him with tons of room to spare , gathered speed and merged correctly with the traffic all without exceeding the speed limit.
the stupid old idiot flashed his lights and used his horn as if i had commited a capital offence this just shows complete ignorance of modern driving conditions and therefore requires re teaching
And while they are about it its time they introduced a section of the test called "aiding the flow of traffic" where people are taught not to block junctions while queing and allowing traffic out from side junctions in turn.

<rant off>.

Matt

zoog

Well said MW1, see my earlier post.

EBR

If the f*cking do-gooders in this country had half an ounce of sense we'd have ID cards linked to NI numbers - it would be very easy to ensure people take re-tests AND have insurance.

Jeez if people can't afford to pay for a new test every 5 years they shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

The re-tests aren't driving tests in the L-Driver sense of the word I believe, they are to ensure competence and above all traffoc awareness.

I'd go two stages further

1) No-one and I mean NO-ONE is allowed a car above 1.4L for 2 years after passing test.

2) Compulsory M-Way test - massive fines for driving on M-way without it. Can't afford to pay fine - shouldn't be driving, or more to the point shouldn't be breaking the law.

Some of the things that go on in this country make me sick. It's no good being political about it because they are all the same. I say KILL the civil liberties groups and get this country on the road to repair.

Dirty Wrong'un

Give the old'uns purple Smart cars with orange spots. It would give us all fair warning that there are old people around and something stupid could happen!!!

Gus