LG John

Still not convinced to trade the VTS for an Impreza! Surely someone has made this swap before and could share the experience. In say percentage terms how much extra wedge is it to run the Impreza? Is the extra power worth that extra money? Also, the 'running an impreza' thread had scarry talk of £500 services for the scooby, which services cost what? The VTS was £120 for 12,500 and £150 for 25,000, tyres are £100 each (fitted) and I get about 14k out the fronts, brakes still doing ok at 25,000 miles, fuel 32-5mpg. Are we talking night and day running costs? Sorry to be a pain but I need to do my research as its a big decision!!

Sparks

Look at the SIDC FAQ for the servicing, 30, 45, 60k are big services with all fluids being changed. The others are basically oil + filter change (+plugs at 15k), so reasonably cheap. Note that servicing is not done solely on mileage, but time as well.. e.g. every 6 months or 7,500 miles, which ever is first.

Bottom line is its going to be more expensive than the saxo.

If you bought brand new I reckon you want to budget on £1k for 2 years motoring. Buy a s/h car and it'll be more because you'll probably cop the 30 & 45k or the 45 & 60k, which will cost you £400-500 each.

None of the above caters for replacement parts such as brake pads/discs, clutch or anything else the breaks.

Think I'm right in saying a service interval for imports in 6250 miles, not 7500 - can someone confirm ?

FreeT

YES - night and day

Insurance
Fuel
Servicing
Parts
Mods
Security
the list goes on and on and on ....

Work these out and you'll see the difference, and no doubt then tell us its not worth it and your going to keep the saxo.

Scooby-Doo

My 30k service cost £420 and required a new set of rear tyres. £700 gone in a day. Its expensive but fun. Remember you will always regret it if you don't and probably regret it if you do !!!!!!!!!!

SCOSaltire

well
my costs so far in 1 year ownership (19,000 grinning miles)

30,000 mile service = 380
1 set of 4 toyos = 360
37,500 mile service + front pads = 280
insurance = 960
Prodrive kit = 1800

next service is a biggy
tyres have about 4 mm left after 10,000 miles used

average mpg = 24 ish
using SUL (79p per litre)

ive been looking at cheaper cars to run... and the difference i see are:
save about 70 quid a month on petrol. (but i am doing lots of miles)

services will be cheaper.. but only about 500 quid a year probably

insurance will only be couple hundred pounds cheaper

tyres are same... performance ones.. and i have std 16" wheels

mods ... prodrive kit was just too appealing ... i can feel the urge developing for new brakes and suspension ... and they can cost a bit...

so.. if ur doing lots of miles... look out for more services and more petrol...
and ull get so addicted to the car ... that u will gulp down petrol.. of the tastier SUL + octane booster...
and ull read here about the nice upgrades and will oneday get the urge to spend...

for 2 - 3k more per year... the grin factor is worth it...
depends if u want to be able to afford it...

i did go through a .. omg how expensive is this phase.... but.. that was after i bought the Prodrive kit and after xmas...

id do the same decision again....


[Edited by SCOSaltire - 3/16/2002 11:48:21 PM]

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

All personal opinion, but IMHO per £ ratio was higher with my old VTR than it was with my old Impreza.

Running costs are poles apart, I was seeing 7k miles for front tyres (except for when I stupidly fitted a pair of Pirellis that lasted almost 5k, back to the M. Pilots after that) 20k for rear and averaged almost 40mpg with the Saxo, while suffering no theft / vandalism and not having to worry where I parked the car, insurance was a little over £200 and as you mention, servicing was cheap. The scooby changed all that £5k miles to a set of 4 tyres, 16.5mpg, got a spoiler nicked, a panel keyed, paid £1k+ for insurance, then there was the 6 monthly servicing where each one was more than a yearly Saxo one.

In a straight line there is no doubt an Impreza is massively quicker, yet doesn't feel a whole lot quicker (until 80+)as it copes so easily with the std 220bhp; around corners there is very little in it as the Saxo was so much more adjustable and communicative, so you could sit a lot closer to the limits of the car with confidence. As soon as it is wet / snowy the difference goes from not a lot to huge as the advantages of 4WD take over, puling out of junctions into tight gaps is no longer a problem (no sitting there thinking 'I could have gone, but I might have sat there wheel spinning...') standing water on motorways you can just drive through rather than trying to enter it at an angle where by any acquaplaning will have ended before you reach the crash barrier.

Petoir

Saxo Boy - as you hinted at the end of your question the running costs are night and day, but so is the performance. I run an Evo6 which is a little more expensive than my previous P1, but the wife's Peugeot 106gti is way cheaper in comparison, by about a quarter.

There is no comparison between a normally aspirated hot hatch and a turbo charged 2 litre boxer. Work out the maths and whatever you do, don't test drive one before you know if you can afford it because if you do and you can't afford it, it'll be very painful

And insurance of course, I'm 30 with 5 years NCB and I was paying £900 a year.

Great~taste~Bloke

Do it! The car will cost you more but it will deliver so much more.
I came from a Golf Gti to my first Impreza so Just do it!!!!!!!!
Matthew
WWW.SCOOBYCITY.CO.UK

Mr.M

I've just PX my VTS for an MY01 but the decision wasn't a light one to make.

Running the VTS over the week, i would get roughly 260-320 miles out of the tank on NUL. That equated to roughly £37 in petrol per week for runs to and from work. The scooby is returning 193-210 miles to a tank and i am having to fill it up twice a week with Optimax, hence i would say i am spending £50-£60 per week. I have been driving really carefully too, making sure i get up the gears quickly and not really pushing the car as i would have done in the VTS.

The insurance was actually cheaper for the Scooby than the VTS (50quid or so) but i have had to spend £500 on installing a tracker + £99 per year costs so i am already out of pocket compared to the VTS.

Service intervals are now the same, although the cost is higher for the scooby.

I expect the tyres will need to be replaced before the end of the year. The VTS had plenty of grip after doing 12k miles last year, and i could always swap the fronts and rears anyway (something you can't do on an AWD car!)

Apart from that lot the Scooby still makes me grin like f**k every time i sit in it and would never go back to such a small car again even if the running costs are nearly 50% cheaper.

Nigel Bowles

Don't know what you guys are doing with the fuel .... I get, from the jap 10 gallon tank, 200 to 260 miles. cost about £32 to fill with optimax.
Totally different car, you need to think differently, everytime you drive it you have fun ... you cant put a price on that.

Go for it ... get one.

Goldfinger

Saxo Boy - I did exactly that. I had a 98R Saxo VTS in Poseiden Blue which I put 43k miles on in 2.5 years ... a great little car but I'd always wanted a Scoob and saved the cash to make the purchase and haven't looked back since.

The services aren't bad - except the 30k and 45k services (which are c. £350-400) they are normally just over £100 which is comparable to the VTS albeit every 7.5k vs. 10k. My 40k service on the VTS was c. £340 so its swings and roundabouts really in terms of servicing.

Petrol wise, the scoob is obviously a little thirstier but it has much more power and has a bigger engine. However, I have got 32-33mpg once on a constant run on the autobahn at a constant 90-95 mph which is good but often I get c. 22-25 mpg compared to late 20s early 30s in the VTS.

In terms of tyres the best price I ever got on the VTS for Michelin Pilots was £100 per corner which is in fact more expensive than the bigger tyres on the Scoob - as a yardstick you can get the reputedly best tyres for c. £85 a corner (Goodyear Eagle F1's and Toyo Proxes T1-S).

In terms of insurance I only pay an extra £200 per year for the MY99 with scoobysport backbox and ITG panel filter when compared to the VTS ... not bad at all really when you consider its only a few pints of beer a month you've got to sacrifice .

In terms of the car I bought I love it to bits and never worry about the additional cost I'd make the same decision every single time. The additional performance, grip, blah blah blah IMHO is well worth the money. Living with the car day to day is great, always puts a smile on my face (and the missus loves it to bits, she says we'll never have a different car now and now is itching for a P1 ... which is nice ). Take the plunge, there are some lovely examples in the For Sale board ... many of which are lovely examples. It's great also being part of a great community of enthusiasts - just do it

Cheers
Phil

hawkeye

At the end of the day it all comes down to what YOU want. If you can justify the extra expense on the scoob you'll never look back. You're only young once. DO it now and in later years you'll have good memories. Otherwise you'll always wonder what if. Sieze the moment.

Wow I feel better for that preaching, at my tender age I shouldn't be so philosophical?

My wife has a Grand Cherokee and I thought that would be expensive to run, but all in all I think it's about the same as the scoob. Don't know about depreciation though.


Have fun whatever your decision.


Hawkeye

SJobson

Servicing is one of the killers - if you don't include the price of brake pads, replacing the clutch etc (which it needs quite often) then you're looking at around £800 a year less than my new Civic Type-R (which replaced my MY99). Include those extra consumables and it becomes £1000+ a year. Tyres are probably going to need replacing slightly more regularly on the Civic (fronts, anyway ) but that's more than negated by around £400 per year saving on petrol costs (over 10,000 miles). Insurance is about the same.

So I'm spending roughly £2500 per year on running costs for the Civic which would be £3500 per year for the Subaru. That's 40% extra for the Subaru: or £83 per month (which equates to £1666 per year of gross salary for 40% bracket). Quite a lot of difference, I'd say.

LG John

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll do some saving till the summer and that'll give me time to be sure its the right decision. One think seems apparent, and that is if you want run an Impreza you'll find a way - pimp your bird, etc! I tend to do a lot of uneccessary miles in the Saxo, giving people lifts here and there, in the scooby I'd just say 20mpg lads cough up!! I think the answer to one final question will sell the car: In the Saxo, if you back of the throttle on a wet roundabout she gets nice and tail happy :-) and with left-foot braking is brilliantly balanced (till the momentum runs out). The A4 quattro can do this, but, if you nail the gas on a wet r-bount in the Impreza does she go into a powerslide? In case your wondering, I live for tail-happieness!

scottdg

3 words:-

Lift

Off

Oversteer

nigelward

Mr M

It is possible to swap tyres front to rear on an AWD, most people do this to ensure that all four tyres wear out at the same time.

This allows all four tyres can be replaced at the same time with the same tyre, buying two at a time can be risky should the tyre become discontinued and helps to maintain the balance of the car.

The only thing that you cannot do is mix different size tyres front to read, eg 215/40/17 on the front and 215/45/17 on the rear. This combination will potentially cause problems with the centre diff due to the different rotational speeds of the wheels.

Cheers

Nigel

LG John

Lift off oversteer is no good, can do that till the cows come home in the saxo! I want 'power'slides, i.e mash the throttle and the back end comes flinging round! I understand the 4WD just won't do that in the dry (too much grip) but was hoping she'll do it it the wet or slippy conditions?

RichardPON

You want to do that sort of stuff, then go buy a saff cossie. If you want to go round corners quickly, buy an Impreza.

Having said that, just watched the Cossiekiller at the Ring vid again, and Stef manages to get the car to slide well enough (showboating )

Gary Foster

Hmm,

Broadies in the Impreza I found difficult goes like this

- Approach corner at silly silly speed at full throttle
- Turn in very hard whilst lifting off violently
- As the back comes round on lift off, reapply power.

Main problem I found was you sort of run out of steam after 10 / 20 metres - ie you scrub off so much speed it feels like your almost stopped. Also I couldn't 'balance' the car as you would with RWD - I guess because all 4 wheels were spinning.

It's better than FWD obviously, and you can recover from silly slip angles (70 degrees ?) but as RichPon has said, you want a RWD car, I have one and it goes more like this

- Approach corner slower than normal
- turn in slightly harder than normal on balanced throttle
- As the back end comes round apply some more throttle
- Balance slip angle with throttle
(or in my case, make a big mess fish tail / spin) - might be lifting off in step 2 maybe, not sure. Difficult to think about.

Note - there is absolutely no way I would do this on the public road. No way hosey. Esp in the Scoob which just need massive amounts of tarmac (ie excessive speed) to get out of shape. It would be an extra super duper silly thing to do (IMHO)

SCOSaltire

get to the corner / roundabout at normal speeds...

say ur turning right...

slightly unnerve the car with a bit of hard turn-in
plant on the loud pedal as u do this
the turbo will spool into action
backend comes round...
who was turning right? ... go round again

i love it

u can bring the backend round with planting the throttle...
esp when its damp..

in the snow... even better... backend likes to come out..
then just straighten the wheel and look out the side window...

tho... dont do it on a public road...
if it goes wrong... it will go wrong big style...

u wont realise how fast u have been going... until ur trying not to meet that kerb/hedge/car/person/wall/bank ....

Dream Weaver

If you want backend action get yourself an MR2.

I have a 94 MR2 GT with 174bhp as standard and they are certainly not slow. I had a "performance comparison test" on Saturday (race) with my friend in his BMW 328i Coupe. Both cars were equal all the way up through every gear. He couldnt pass me, and I couldn't leave him so I am well chuffed with that.

Also running costs are nothing. In 1 year and 8k miles it has cost:

New radiator - £300
Insurance - £800
Major Service - £180

Fuel economy is - urban 25-30mpg. Motorway - 40-45mpg.

And thats it, ultra reliable and even with 96k miles on. Brilliant.

DW