JamJay

Hi all, this is my 1st post and I have had a search, but I need some more info please.

I am hoping to hop across to the Subaru brand, namely the Impreza side of it. Since passing my test at 17, I have tried to work my way up the power stakes & currently own a SEAT Leon Cupra R. I love my current car loads and I have taken in to 260bhp & 299lb/ft so far with 300bhp easily acheivable on standard internals & turbo (350 max), but it's handling characteristics and lack of an LSD let it down a little, I feel that it's just not the right kind of car to be upgrading ARBs, adding coilovers and installing Quaife diffs etc, it's a little too refined & German feeling. So, I think that a decent 4wd force induced car is the next step up.

This is where I need your help, I don't know what to go for. My options are currently either a Bugeye WRX or Blobeye WRX. Am I right in saying that the standard outputs were 215bhp/215lb/ft for the Bug & 221bhp/220lb/ft for the Blob? Which one is favoured?

I know that you'll probably tell me to go for an STi but insurance wise, it's just not feasable right now.
What I really want to know, is how easy it is to upgrade the WRX models and push the power up? What would I need to do short of Big Turbo and upgraded internals to get the most from each, what power would I be likely to see & is the Blob more tuneable than the Bug?

I know that with bigger power, you need bigger brakes. Are the standard Impreza calipers up to much? Although my Leon is FWD, those 4pot Brembo's on the front sure can rip your face off with Ferodo DS2500 pads and to be honest, with it's current power, I know that I need them...they are life savers.

Sorry for all of the newb stuff, I hope you're not too sick of reading it or replying to it.

Any info much appreciated.


Thanks

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

There's very little difference performance-wise I believe.

I think the blobeye is supposed to have marginally better internals than the bugeye, but that might only apply to the STI blocks - you'd have to read up.
Your figures for the bug are correct.

Just putting on a panel filter, and a cat-back exhaust on mine, with a remap took it to 250bhp. With a sports cat and decat up-pipe and an uprated fuel pump 280bhp should be achievable easily enough.
After that, you're looking at injectors, FMIC and bigger turbo to get your thrills lol.

Blob is no more tuneable than the bug as far as I'm aware.

Brakes - standard WRX brakes are cr*p!
4 pot STI brembos go straight on but you'll need STI or 18" wheels to clear them.
DS2500 pads were rubbish on mine - I use EBC yellow stuff, braided lines and Godspeed grooved front discs, but am on the lookout for a set of Brembos.
If you really want performance then K-Sport or AP racing I'd suggest would be the best bet.

Best of luck with your purchase

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

might be worth thinking about mate is trying a couple of the insurance comapnies on here such as keith micheals and a plan to see what the difference between a wrx and sti are?

as remember for every mod remap pannel filter exhaust you do you will need to notify them so i would imagine the cost difference between the two will start to disapear once you mod the wrx unless you with hold the information and pray you are not in a bump as you will kick yourself there after.

also by the time you have spent the money on the wrx to get it up to 280bhp or sti performance you may of well spent the cash on the insurance and spread it by monthly payments so it is a smaller hit each month rather than all in one go. plus on the brighter side yo uwill be driving a STI which inmo is a better base car to start woith as and when your insurance starts to come down in price.

best of luck what ever you do

daz1968

iTrader: (13)

I found sti and wrx insurance almost the same, maybe its my age and the fact have owned 300bhp cars for 16 years. A plan were best for me, but I ended up going blob wrx as it was enough for an everyday car, I however ended up fitting brembos and exhaust. No regrets going for wrx though. Depends what you want, everyone says go sti, I advise try both and see what suits what you want from the car.

Mifo

iTrader: (10)

Hi jamjay welcome to scoobynet.

You sound like me a couple of years ago. I was 22 when I bought my wrx and the insurance cost was roughly £6-800 cheaper than an sti.
Back then the wrx was roughly £5k cheaper than the same year sti as well so I had no real choice but to get a wrx.


If you get a wrx the first thing Id do is ditch the standard brakes as they are garbage.
Then lowering springs, as the wrx sits quite high and rolls a bit on cornering.

You can get over 300bhp off the stock turbo with the right mods plus the wrx is 100 kg lighter than the sti so it can surprise a few.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Totally agree with the brakes comment, but I wouldn't advise lowering springs as the second mod - instead I'd say rear ARB. I had the Prodrive springs put onto mine and the geometry done and didn't notice all that much difference, but then I added droplinks and an adjustable 22mm Whiteline ARB and oh my word what a difference - hence for the money I'd advise you go for that first - it sharpens up response and handling no end, and also prevents the sometimes tail-happy behaviour you can get on poorer quality tyres.

The springs make the car look nicer but weren't as much as I'd hoped for in the handling department. Maybe Prodrive ain't all that great - I know James at GRD said to me he'd recommend TEIN if I remember that right.

Also - re your insurance - be advised that A-Plan are not an "new for old" policy - if you want that go for Keith Michaels. A Plan are cheaper, but they're cheaper for a reason. Just making you aware mate.

BlueBugEye

iTrader: (12)

JamJay,

As far as I'm aware there is no real difference between the bug and the blob until around 2005, the blobs did then get a new interior and wider track I think. The STi is a better motor but I did find it was more expensive to buy and insure hence why I drive a Bug WRX. Really it's a case of which cars looks do you prefer - Bugs are less popular so are actually cheaper in many cases. As for mods, look in my garage (although pics are now out of date) but I'd go the following route:

1. De-tango or STi/Morette headlights!
2. Decent Geo setup
3. Decent disks and pads/uprated calipers (I now have AP 4pots)
4. Uprated ARB Front and Rear with droplinks (Whiteline are popular as are Perrin although I have eibachs)
5. Suspension drop (Prodrive/Eibach springs are popular)
6. K & N panel filter (Green have a good reputation too) - Do not get an induction kit.
7. Decat/Sports cat exhaust (could do up-pipe as well as there's a cat in that) this should be done at the same time as a remap!
8. STi Intercooler
9. New injectors/fuel pump/turbo (Remap again at this point)
10. Now you'll be looking at clutch/transmission.

I'm at stage 8 now barring the suspension although that's on order and should be fitted in the next 3 weeks or so (BC-Coilovers) car corners flat and power is up to 275BHP.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

I'd say that's good advice from BlueBugeye there - first thing I did was fit a panel filter cos they're cheap, then an STI grille and headlights - totally transforms the WRX look (the OEM headlights were sooooo horrid when I look back at when I first bought the car!).

JamJay

Hi guys, thanks for the replies, I didn't know any of that so it's all much appreciated.

When changing to 4-pot calipers from the STi, which discs do you run? Do you increase the size of them of just upgrade the standard size for some grooved/drilled versions? Or perhaps you take the whole set up from the STi (discs, calipers, carriers & mounting brackets)?
Against my friends bug-eye, my front discs are noticably bigger but he has larger rear discs due to the drive from the rear wheels. The Leon Brembo's are more than up to the job to stop the front wheels when running big BHP but as the WRX front discs are smaller, is it worth upgrading the rears also?

Is this an expensive mod by the way? I really enjoy taking a 'lower' model and upgrading parts and surprising a few people. I know that once I start, the modding bug will take over, again and i'll inevitably end up spending more than the difference in price between WRX/STi & also the difference in insurance but spread out over a few months, the hit isn't so big.

Bugeye_Scoob, you say that after 280bhp i'll be needing injectors, FMIC and bigger turbo to go further. Does the standard turbo run out of puff after this?

BlueBugEye, is the list that you posted above the route that you took? 275bhp is a nice figure indeed but what's the torque like? Why do you advise againt an induction kit? Can heat soak become an issue here?

To go further with my Leon, Stage 2 is next up which involves a 4bar fuel pressure regulator, FMIC, another Remap & Turbo-Back exhaust (approx £1500 for all parts unfitted except remap)...that should see 285+bhp and about 320+lb/ft (305bhp if you add a hybrid turbo into that - total £2300)but short of upgrading to an LSD, there's not many cost effective ways of improving traction other than upgrading the dog-bone engine mount for a polybush. It struggles in the dry as it is now and the TCS & ESP hate it , so therefore, I'd hate to go to Stage 3 (Garrett BT) unless it's going to live on he track which isn't likely.

Saying this though, I seems that I can pick up an MY02 STi Bugeye for £6500 - £7500 with 70 - 80k on it which really isn't that bad and looks a better base for modding, in regards to stronger internals and brakes? It would be an easier option I guess as i'd be spending maybe the best part of £2000 to get a standard WRX up to where the STi already is (260bhp?) although I should be able to pick up a good Blob-eye WRX for about £5000. Sorry, thinking/typing out loud there.

Another quickie, in terms of mileage, what should I be looking for? Any issues after a certain amount, I take that cambelt is 60k?

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Lots of questions mate! lol. The ones I can answer I've put in below.

The STI uses bigger discs than the WRX and bigger calipers and pads.
A second hand set of brembo calipers seems to go for between £400 and £450 so you'd have discs and pads on top of that potentially.

The alternative is a Godspeed, K-Sport, AP Racing or similar bolt on kit which can be anything from £600-£1000 depending on how much you think you'll need.




I think you could reach 300bhp with the standard turbo but to use the one fitted to the STI (I think that's the VF34 or VF35), or an alternative would probably net you more faster. I think with the standard turbo you'd need to look at replacing headers and a wing mounted induction kit with external air feed on top of what blue bugeye listed for that sort of power.

DaveBeck on here took his WRX up to 360bhp with a FMIC and TD05 on standard internals before the engine let go, so you don't want to go too mad!

Heat soak is indeed an issue with induction kits, unless they're wing mounted (i.e. not in the engine bay).
This necessitates removing the splash guard in the arch, removing the snorkel and original airbox and then fitting an air feed. The problem is that the turbo sits very close to the airbox so by fitting a kit inside the bay all you're doing is sucking in hot air.
The alternative I guess would be to go for an aftermarket version like the K&N Apollo that has a heatshield but don't hear much about those on here so don't know how good they are.

Most tuners say the OEM airbox with a good panel filter (I run Green) is perfectly sufficient for applications up to 300bhp.

You should consider that the STI has better interior, suspension (springs and shocks are different), brakes, turbo and various (and stronger) engine bits that the WRX doesn't have. You also get a great looking bodykit if you manage to source a Prodrive style version.
If you find an STI with the PPP (prodrive performance pack), that included a sports cat, decat pipe and remap and I think takes the car over 300bhp anyway.

It all depends on what you can afford and how quick.
When I bought my WRX I did so because I couldn't afford an STI and so I've chosen to gradually mod my WRX over the last 3 years as and when I can afford to do so.

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

I just picked up my first Scooby STi last week.

I too was looking at all my different options of going for a slightly newer WRX over the STi but in the end after 2 test drives in both I opted for the STi pure and simply because it felt like a much nicer drive and because I would end up spending a fortune taking the WRX to STi levels.

The STi has so many extra bits of kit of the WRX in terms of performance mods so its a no brainer really.

JamJay

Thanks again, it seems like the sensible option would be save a little longer for an STi in this case as a WRX is going to take a little work, not only the engine but suspension & brakes too.

I'd like to place my hands on a blob-eye STi if possible although the Bug-eye version with it's bodykit still looks very tasty. At least this way I know that I don't need to touch my brakes, internals or suspension. I would still modify it a bit of course with S/S exhaust, BOV (recirc or 50/50) & a remap (if it's not already PPP'd).

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

I didn’t like the look of the bug STIs until I started looking for a new car then I looked at a Prodrive Bug and I wanted one . (look here https://www.scoobynet.com/garage.php...e&vehicleid=27 )
They have different bumpers and skirts which make them look much better. Also have different colour clocks.

If you where modding a WRX you would at some point need a gearbox the 5sp box isn’t that strong where the 6sp STI box is much stronger.
Take your time fine one with some mods already done save you a fortune

kingchrissyp

I had a LCR at around 260 bhp a few years back and as quick as it was i never really found it fun,as it just felt very heavy and boring in the corners!A very good cruiser and comfy on the motorway though!

I ve opted for a bugeye JDM model with 250 bhp as standard mainly due to the price of the STI being a lot higher and me using the car as an every day runner.Insurance wise i found little or no difference between the uk WRX s and STI s and not alot difference on the JDM s.The best companys i found were SKY insurance and Direct Line

JamJay

That looks gorgeous rbaz...i'm sold!

The problem I am having seems to be finding a low mileage example, ideally i'd like one with around 50k on it. The 6-speed box is a must...can't be going backwards to 5 now can I lol.

How is the STi rated as a 'daily driver'? By daily, I mean giving it a good run on the weekend and using it 2 or 3 times in the week for some small social trips. Also what are the services like, any mor complex than servicing a WRX?

kingchrissyp, you are totally right about the LCR there. In a straight line & from a rolling start, there's not alot out there that can pull on it, the torque is phenominal but in the corners the rear twitches a fair bit. The rear beam is a pain in the @rse and it really needs 10mm rear spacers, 28mm rear ARB and a decently matched shock and spring package to correct...tadaa £700 flying from your bank account. Being German built, it feels a bit too refined for a big BHP car.

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

You wouldn’t service it any different from a modded WRX. The pads & disks are more expensive but as said above the WRX aren’t really up to the job.
I think they are very easy to live with mine is a little loud on long runs but sounds fantastic
Fuel economy is the biggest problem I get between 19-28mpg between fill ups (Running 330bhp) 19 if driving is mixed and 28 on the motorway driving very careful with the right foot. I have never done a full tank driving quick all the time but would think its almost into single figures.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

I guess the one thing that hasn't been said is that the alternative would be to buy a WRX and spend £5000 on shocks & springs, STI engine transplant and brakes of your choice.
I guess if you can do a lot of the work yourself the cost may drop, although it's difficult to get hold of 2nd hand 6-speed from what I hear on here?
It's all dependant on how "customised" you want it to be I guess.

stanmo

iTrader: (1)

For the future, an STI is the better choice of starting point in terms of engine output; the UK WRX has an open deck block as standard; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I think JDM STIs also have forged pistons too, if that matters; though I'm still getting used to the sound of a diesel in my newly acquired 04 STI until it gets warm.

One other big difference is the compliance in the suspension between my old '99 WRX car, and the AST equipped JDM 04 model I've got now; I'm still learning, but I can drive the old one faster on lousy roads than the new one. Overtaking on narrowish roads in the STI is a bit more hair-raising if there are odd bumps on the opposite side of the road.

The STI is potentially much faster, and the 2.5 block has much more low down urge, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's more fun than my old car (which I'm reluctant to sell).

Insurance on the modded '99 car was also 50 more than the modded 04 STI.

JamJay

That is indeed alot of work Bugeye_Scoob and I think that if I was going to spend that, I could probably justify the MPG on the STi lol.

I plan to try for some test drives this weekend. I think that there is a Subaru centre in Bookham, Surrey.

bunsofsteeeel

iTrader: (1)

sti's are cheaper to insure as there are more wrx's so they make more £££ trust me im with keith michaels and asked the difference myself

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

If they don't have anything you fancy mate, there's SGT Select in Slough, or Bulldog in Twyford, although they're both mainstream dealers.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

You serious?
You're telling me that KM will insure a modified STI cheaper than a modified WRX? That's just plain crazy!

JamJay

I'll look them up on the net and see what stock they have.

I am with Adrian Flux and they are pretty competetive this year but that varies, last year they wouldn't entertain me on a Leon for less than £2k so lord knows how an extra years NCB had dropped the price £1300...weird. Being 22 and insuring anything over group 12 isn't much fun
I am trying to build on power each time I buy a car though...106 GTi - Civic VTi - Leon Cupra R so that has to count in my favour surely.

Stevesbluewrx

iTrader: (4)

I've had a WRX Bugeye for 2 years and added a few tricks taking me upto 270bhp and 275lbft on the standard TD04 turbo but with no de-cat up pipe.

I am now driving a Bugeye STi with 402.5bhp and 359lbft . When I brought the car it was advertised as having 332 bhp and 330lbft. After only changing the panel filter I took it on the rollers to be given the result of 310bhp and 265lbft.

Since then I have added all sorts of bits and bobs. Again I have 402.5bhp and 359lbft and this is my everday car and easier to drove following a remap from JGM.

Next changes to be made is adding a FMIC and upping the injectors taking me on the brink of 450bhp and 400lbft.

My personal input would be for everyday use (depending on what roads you use) is the WRX would be ideal for everyday use as the 5-speed box is nicer to drive.

For performance it's an STi but the gearing can be a little annoying at times even with the OEM VF35 turbo.

The STi is a better car over all with extra bits and bobs and extra power out of the box but finding a low miles one could prove very hard for a good price.

Also to add the insurance wise that I have come across would be the WRX is cheaper to insure than an STi model.

Steve

dunx

iTrader: (3)

A std. STI MAY be easier to insure than a modded WRX....

dunx

My baby !

Stevesbluewrx

iTrader: (4)

100% agree with a std STi over a modded WRX.

That's a sweet looking car Dunx.

Steve

JamJay

Thanks again for all of the replies.

As you mentioned Stevesbluewrx, a low miler is proving hard to find at a dealer anyway. The search goes on however !

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Steve mate - if I'd been able to afford it at the time I would have bought a Prodrive style bug same colour as yours..... got your Prodrive bumper on yet?

justy75

Induction kit as a no-no is not strictly correct. In general a decent panel filter (Greenstuff are highly recommended) will be the easiest and most suitable. Due to the scoobys heat in the engine bay an induction kit is not a good idea. That said however if you go for a cold air feed there is in general more bhp to be had and a far superior suction noise! I swapped from a aftermarket panel to a cold air feed and gained 5bhp (tested before & after on rollers before other mods were carried out). Just thought i'd mention it.

jamiedream

iTrader: (3)

hi all, iv got a 2004 blobeye wrx with sum sti bits but not sure with the engine as has the red bit which someone could of jus painted. iv got a AEM short ram induction kit to fit so will sit in bay still, jus got cos cost me £100 where i was lookin at a viper kit for £200.
Im ordering a JPERFORMANCE turbo back exhaust system next week 3" to 4.5" tail pipe for £320, and then going to order APS dual entry top mount intercooler in couple of weeks for £650.

Any idea of how much performance gains this will have.

Any comments or recomendations? cheers