scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Hello there,

For years ive want to go to the Ring, and now it seems im in a position where i can.

Ive been reading as much as i can and would like to know peoples thoughts.

The main thing putting me off atm is the crash barrier damage/track closure.

Do people insure against this? It seems crashes are common. I have a few track days under my belt and dont intend on crashing, however if i get a 30,000 bill for track closure if i come off, thats more money that i have..

How do people cope with this? Is there a way around it? Do people buy track insurance to cover this specifically?


Also. How many laps am i likley to do. My plan was go fri sat sun mon, will the 25 lap pass do for couple of evening laps on fri then some on sat n sun?

How much should i really budget for fuel? My car, as expected, chunks through fuel on the track...

Are there any must see/do things when there?

Ideally i want a budget trip. It seems TF is open 14 15 16 17 of august...

So yeah if i could learn something from those who go alot that would be good. Ive read some guy with a seat arosa has done 100 laps this year, so cant be as expensive as im expecting?

Thanks

Chris

Gilesdwrc

You can buy insurance but it's expensive, These policies are expensive (£250/day is pretty typical), and often have high excesses and low maximums (for example, an excess of £5,000 and a maximum payout of £20,000).

The below is from Ben Lovejoy A brilliant site with lot's of info and a great forum Ringers Forum :: Index or try Northloop.co.uk

I've been once and am going again next w'end, drive within your limits, stay aware of other drivers and above all Don't time your self, concentrate on your turn-ins, apexs and exits.

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Yeah read most of that site. Was hoping there is a secret option. Seems strange that sooo many people run the risk.

I would only go to have fun kinda thing. not pushing for a time.

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

also. are there any unrestricted areas of autobahn or mountains near or on the way to the ring?

shawn r

iTrader: (3)

loads of unrestricted parts. Just make sure you drop your speed again when you have to. I have been for the last 5 years. Only pass on the left.

shawn r

iTrader: (3)

on track and road lol.

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

So i shiouldnt worry to much about a massive barrier bill. Just dont drive on the limit and enjoy it?

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

So how much should i really be budgeting for fuel? I can probably get 200/250 out of a tank on the way there & back. And probably chuck half a tank away on the unlimited sections each way.

How many laps am i likley to get in on 2 days? Is 25 to much? Thats about 4 hours on track, which is a decent amount..

What stuff is there to do in the evening and where is the best palce. ive heard of some steak house, and was hoping there are some nice bars etc?

Is it wise just to have a few k sat in the current account incase something bad happens.

What if i had mechanical failure and got myself a nice 25k bill? Any ideas what happens in that case (as i dont have 25k lying around..).

Is it best to go on an organised trip the first time or just wing it on my own with some mates?

mervil

iTrader: (5)

When I went for the first time, I just concentrated on getting round in one piece, so just learn the track and have fun!! Don't be surprised if a crappy BMW overtakes you either

My first 4 laps I went through three quarters of a tank and 1 lap was very damp!!

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Lol ok so muchos fuel budget then.

I understand the lap passes last a while, so if i got 25 laps and only used 15 of them, i can always return later in the year to use those remaining laps up.

Looks like it will be good fun. Just need to get some others to come along too.

I rekon budget 800-1000 for the trip will probably suffice? most of it fuel.

p1doc

come and join northloop for lots of banter and info need to factor in ferry/tunnel petrol accomodation/camping petrol on track and cost of laps-4 or 8 laps is enough on 1 trip unless you are a driving god remember 1 lap ring =13 laps of knockhill or 3 laps spa!!
make sure car has been serviced with new pads fluid tyres etc
most important enjoy and pull over to let faster cars/bikes by and use your mirror
martin
ps pistenklause restaurant in nurburg for steak on a stone and pax laps with sabine in ring taxi and a certain bar in adenau if not with females lol

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Rough Estimate of costs for Me (driver) based on one passenger.

120 Petrol trip (split with passenger)
250 Petrol for Ring
343 25lap Ring Pass
150 Accommodation
120 Nosh n Booze
70 Euro Recovery Cover
------------
1053
------------


I would regard that as the basic costs.

This doesnt cover.

150 new set of pads
200 new set of tyres
307 insurance milage extension
25 first aid kit etc for euro driving
30 new RBF600
100 Travel Insurance
-------------
712
------------


On top of that lack of insurance cover on the ring, and potential crash damage cost risk. Probably good to have a grand set aside for that JIC.


Passenger cost.
120 fuel
150 accommodation
120 nosh n booze
100 Travel insurance
50 Contribution to passenger laps.
---------
480
--------



How does this sound? it seems quite expensive. Should be able to cut the costs down in several areas tho.

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Yeah im on there too.

Forgot about ferry & tunnel. thats about another 100 odd quid i rekon.

p1doc

it soon adds up then petrol station for stickers jackets t-shirts etc lol
martin

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Also i guess a few of those costs are going to be long lasting. i.e. 25 laps can last for a year i believe. Euro cover will last a year, new pads will probably last another ring trip etc.

So the 2nd trip should be substantialy cheaper..?

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

lol yeah those too

Is this totallying up similar to your trips?

ring or a week in paradise.. mmm

"MADDOG"

iTrader: (3)

"The Ring" is paradise........

rgds "MADDOG"

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

MADDOG, do you live near the ring then i take it? Or essex

I guess the cost will be ok. just need to find someone to split the petrol who is a tollerable for 10 hours in a car with a helmet.

And perhaps a couple more people up for taggin along.

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

How many passengers are you allowed in the car on the ring? i was assuming 1 like a normal track day.

But its a road, and the ring taxi's allow 4, so perhaps its 4. That would cut petrol cost.

Take 2 passengers and leave the other passenger seat for two wheels. Fit 2 other wheels in the boot along with jack, oil, socket set, brake bleeding kit etc etc. Few clothes .

Dave_P

Would love to go...but think recovery and track insurance (car & third parties) is a must...

Heard a story (so cannot say if true, but I trust the person) about a Type R Civic being written off which was not covered by their insurance, paying £1000's to get the wreck back to the UK and then being stung for £12,000 for fixing a wall with advertising on it (he had a big off).

Time to get practising on Gran Turismo on the PS 2

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Yes someone reportedly got a £50,000 bill for repairing the armco.

No insurance companies cover the ring it seems. unless you wanna pay 250 quid a day, and then u get 5000 excess.

Best to just drive sensibly on the ring i guess.

Seems certain recovery companies dont cover the ring area either. so my AA cover is useless in that event.

bugeyeandy

You need ADAC cover to get removed from the circuit without paying as they are the only ones allowed to do recovery there.

The steak place you were after is the Tiergarten in Nurburg, get on the phone and book a table before or as soon as you arrive as they book out really quick.

Hotel am Tiergarten Nürburg am Nürburgring

For a Hotel i'd highly recommend the Motorsport Hotel also in Nurburg, it's a fantastic place with a nice bar/restraunt and a massive car park to do a bit of tinkering in.
Again, get it booked as far in advance as possible.
Best to email them as it's a bit random whether you'll get a decent English speaker on the phone or not but email is fine.

MOTORSPORTHOTEL.DE - Welcome

I've been 4 times now and not managed to spank any barriers yet even in the wet, I guess it's mainly people getting over confident and running out of talent. In the wet I was being overtaken by lots of slower stuff but also came across 2 or 3 crashed cars in the space of a couple of laps.

In the dry I drove to my limits and drove to enjoy it rather than set any lap records! On a busy TF day it's quite entertaining the amount of people who come steaming past only to overcook it and slap the barrier or scare themselves silly. There's also a lot of track closures on TF weekends usually so your 25 laps should be plenty.

There's a few video on my youtube page, this one is a good mate of mine who was on his first ever lap. It had just stopped raining and although the track dries quickly it was still very slippery. I took the car out 5 up to show them a lap before hand and it was like the place was coated in diesel.

YouTube - Nurburgring June 2007 - Lotus Exige

All good fun though, just realise if you have a heavy off you'll end up with a big bill and if you hit someone else the police will get involved as it is classed as a public road.

bugeyeandy

p.s. I had recovery with MoreThan and they used the local ADAC truck when I broke down.
I was allowed to roll back down the hill at the Breidscheid entrance in Adenau under waved yellows but the recovery truck picked me up from the car park there no problem.
I'd highly recommend them as the paid for a hotel for a couple of nights and for my tow to the Scooby garage on the Monday when it opened

You have to be careful with trackday insurance too as most of them only cover damage to your car and not to the surrounding scenery or other peoples cars

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Ok so what happens in the case of a police investigation. You get done for dangerous driving i assume.

ive watched a couple of vids where people have crashed on blind corners coming VERY close.

If u see a crash do you HAVE to stop like a normal crash or just drive on if it doesnt look to bad?

Ill watch your vids tonight. at work currently.

It all sounds like a big risk. But enough people do it right?

As you say, i wouldnt be going for lap times, and i dont think 25 laps is enough to learn the track enough to really start pushing it either. So i would be doing everything in my power not to crash. No illusions on that mark. Also i have no cage.

Ill send that place an email.

One more question.

Is there space at the ring car park to dump tyres, tools, kit etc etc that i need at the ring but dont want in the car. And how strict is the 95 db limit?

Chris

Mark1983

iTrader: (2)

I would, someone got a €10,000 bill a few weeks ago.

Circuit repair costs:

Repair to each 4m section of crash barrier inc. posts €400

Circuit closure per hour €1785

Vehicle recovery €200

Staff assignment fee for Sunday / Public holiday €74

Staff assignment fee for weekday / Saturday €48

Safety car deployment €41

Disassembly and removal of each barrier per metre* €16

Delivery and assembly of each barrier per metre* €42

Removal of barrier post €8

Delivery and installing new post €81

Clearing road works €188

Administration fees €30


Often the insurance policies people talk about for the Nordschleife is trackday cover i.e. massive excesses and no 3rd party liability which is required during touristenfahrten (public days). If you can cause other to crash due to dropped fluids etc. you are liabile for all their costs too.

When it goes wrong it can go very wrong. A mate of mine developed a car fault causing him to crash at high speed, dropped fluids which caused 2 motorcyclists to crash into the Armco. The police and ambulances attended and the police assigned blame on him. He was liable for substantial circuit damage, circuit closure, damages to the motorcycles etc.

I also know of another Brit who had a big accident involving other vehicles like above and had his claim refused by his insurance company, he applead to the ombudsman which ruled in favour of the insurance company. Often the insurance company will pay out at the time but seek to recover their losses from you, its called subrogation. If you don't have, as you say £25,000 to hand, well lets not go down that route...

Enough of the doom and gloom...

Crossings: Norfolkline is cheap. Takes 2hrs but it takes you 30mins further down the coastline so less driving the other side.

Accommodation: Blaue Ecke in Adenau is great and I've stayed there for several years. It's not cheap, €50 pppn based on 2 sharing but you'll be well looked after by Michaela and the others.

Burgstube in Nurburg is cheaper and service is great from Martin and Heidi.

Sliders run by Bren and Suze is another cheaper guesthouse but a 15/20 minute drive from the Nordschleife.

Breakdown cover: No one other than ADAC recover from the Nordschleife. I have their European cover that's only €79 per year so I'm covered anywhere including the UK. ADAC sub-contract the work to the AA in the UK and they speak good English.

Eating out:
Nurburg: PK, Lindenhof etc all nice.
Adenau: Blaue Ecke, Pinnochios, Comfy Corner are all very nice too.

I know of the guy in the Arosa, he's on NorthLoop. I'm somewhat lagging, I've only done 72 laps this year I'll hopefully hit treble figures this weekend.

Mark1983

iTrader: (2)

Yes.

If you are first on the scene you are required by law to stop. Be it to give first aid or warn others of the accident.


You pay your money, you take a risk. You're only young once and life is for living/

25 will give you the lefts and right, that's all. It takes a long time to learn. Even with 400 or so laps under my belt I'm still learning.


No, you'll need to leave it at your hotel. Depends, they've started noise testing a lot more this year. If your car sticks out, i.e. modified or is noisy in the car park then expect to get pulled over (after you've paid and gone the through the barrier in true money grabbing Nurburgring GmbH style).

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

hi mate, read this thread >>>>>>>> ::::::::Passionford Ring Trip THIS weekend - UP TO DATE reporting here :::::::::: - PassionFord <<<<<<<<<<

this was just over a week ago from when i went with a few mates from another forum, ive been a few times now and also got som REAL info rather than " a mate of a mate for charged for blah blah blah" as ian did smack hes car, he was given the option to go through insurance AS ITS A PUBLIC ROAD !!! just i doubt they would have paied out hes car anyway and,, well hes bill was minor compared to loosing hes no claims hence he paid it

theres also a couple of other thread links about our other trips over the last few years, i really enjoy it but tbh its more a social thing these days for me,,, infact i done 3 laps last weekend driving due to my gearbox worrys , gives a idea of what there is and what else there is aswell to get upto when waiting for the track to open AGAIN gets boring

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

So who do you all insure with to get this cover? The only ins cover ive read about is this 250 quid a day thing. Which is not an option.

Or do you all just "risk" it?

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

i risk it tbh,,, i know that touristfarten is a public toll road day,,,, the ring have never had a issue getting there cash from insurers and i dont know a person whos been made to pay for the barriers after claiming and ive known a few people crash,,, i also know of a bloke whos not being paied out for hes car,,,,, though its not been finalised and the rumours are its due to people of the same group timing each other as a reason not to pay out but cant confirm if thats the reason or not tbh

if i bin my car,,,, ill accept it like when i wrote it off before and paied for it

the barriers and the porsche are the only cars i really care about tbh,,, and as the german police are involved its fair to say " its a road"

ever wondered what would happen if you had a crash in tescos,,, thats not a public road so would your insurance pay out or not ?????

Mark1983

iTrader: (2)

I'm covered by my annual policy for Touristenfahrten.